Homemade 45 acp shotshell die

[jmorris]

I found a suitable donor die in my stash, an RCBS 44mag/SPL die. Ran a file across it and found that it was way too hard to machine.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140324_143733_772_zps7a2bb183.jpg

So I heated it up to take the heat treat out of it.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140324_144700_136_zps495c6987.jpg

At that point I drilled and tapped it 1/2-20 and and reamed the inside to resize the case and form the neck down portion.

With the cases formed I then machined down a grade 5 bold to act as a mandrel to push the over shot wad down below the crimp. The crimp mandrel was made with a 1/2" ball end mill and slides over the over shot wad mandrel.

This way you only use the one die, just remove the insert to form and replace it to seat the over shot wad and crimp.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140324_174317_588_zpsbb497e50.jpg

With the old Remington shot rounds I am about out of I had to use a specific magazine but the new formed cases feed with all that I tried, in my "farm" 45 at least.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140324_180315_513-1_zpsea6281f4.jpg

Cases are made from cut down 308 brass. Now all I need to do is make some over shot wads and cut down some .410 wads, to load a few up.

[williamwaco]

Have you fired any yet?

[jmorris]

Not yet, just barely got that done before the sick kiddo got up from her nap.

[Reg]

Now thats neat. I usually try to pick up older, odd used dies if the come across cheap and keep a few around for experimenting with. Looks like your experiment worked out well.

[Walter Laich]

Do you think it will cycle or just be a single shot cartridge?

[danomano]

That is slick! Cant wait to hear how they shoot

[jmorris]

Do you think it will cycle or just be a single shot cartridge?


They are supposed to cycle.

After reading the contents of this I decided to give it a try. http://www.avr-developers.com/45shotshell/


The end result is pretty clost to the CCI shot shell except you can reload the cases and they don't cost $1.50 ea.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/549/549829.jpg

[jmorris]

Loaded up a few, the wads were cut down to 11/16" and hard to get in on the first one. After that my brain started working and I used the wad guide off of one of my shotshell reloaders.

They hold 84.9+\- grains of #12 or around 425 pellets. Used 6 grains of 231 and over-shot wads punched from a 12ga hull.

Step by step.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20140324_215949_165_zps79968427.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_145002_558_zpsa27dad0f.jpg

They patterned tighter that my other pistol shot loads using Speer capsules, maybe because of the wad.?

15ft
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_151846_039_zpsc66561aa.jpg

Video link of them running.
http://s121.photobucket.com/user/jmorrismetal/media/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/VID_20140325_151407_117_zps82af9b35-1.mp4.html

[williamwaco]

Loaded up a few, the wads were cut down to 11/16" and hard to get in on the first one. After that my brain started working and I used the wad guide off of one of my shotshell reloaders.

They hold 84.9+\- grains of #12 or around 425 pellets. Used 6 grains of 231 and over-shot wads punched from a 12ga hull.

Step by step.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20140324_215949_165_zps79968427.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_145002_558_zpsa27dad0f.jpg

They patterned tighter that my other pistol shot loads using Speer capsules, maybe because of the wad.?

15ft
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_151846_039_zpsc66561aa.jpg

Video link of them running.
http://s121.photobucket.com/user/jmorrismetal/media/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/VID_20140325_151407_117_zps82af9b35-1.mp4.html


WOW.

I am impressed.

That would be bad news for a snake or a rat.

If necessary I bet you could even get dinner with it.

[USMC87]

Thanks for posting this, I am impressed and thinking about trying it myself.

[Bullshop Junior]

Those look a lot like the ones used during ww2. I've been wanting to try making a few for my 454 out of 460 cases but can't get my hand on any.

[Mk42gunner]

I never thought about cutting overshot wads from shotgun shells, the few I have made I used either .35 cal gaschecks or cardboard wads cut from primer sleeves.

The picture of your pattern is impressive, and reminds me I need to order some #12 shot; my trial loads were made with #9.

Robert

[LaPoint]

I looks like they feed quite nicely. Great job!

Did you, or are you going to re-harden the die?

[jmorris]

I did not heat treat it after I finished. To be honest I doubt I will. I did it mostly because my little girl was sick and I needed something to do during nap time. I still have about 3 left out of a box of 20 Remington factory shot loads for 45 acp and they quit making them in 1993.
I think the amount I have formed up and loaded should last me a few more decades.

[cheese1566]

can you post a few pics of the seater and crimp mandrel?

[Capt Fox]

when I was a kid my uncle had a die or a set of dies (not sure) that he used to make 45ACP shot loads with. they seemed to work great from what I remember. I wish I had gotten them when they were available.
yours look great.

[blikseme300]

Jmorris, your ingenuity is legend in my mind. Your solution is very neat.

[jmorris]

can you post a few pics of the seater and crimp mandrel?


Here you go.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/4AF9EB2C31755EB/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CE47964AAA8AC16/standard.jpg

Some old original Remington WWII 45 ACP shotshells.

.............Buckshot

[Bullshop Junior]

http://www.fototime.com/4AF9EB2C31755EB/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CE47964AAA8AC16/standard.jpg

Some old original Remington WWII 45 ACP shotshells.

.............Buckshot

These are the ones I was thinking of. I had some stamped wcc

[Anyracoon]

What primers are you using with the 6 grains of 231 load?

[jmorris]

Some were loaded with CCI LP primers and some with Winchester (blue box) LP primers.

They sit a little deep in the rifle primer pocket but they all have gone bang.

[Green Frog]

I seem to remember a large write-up in one of the gun magazines back about the mid- to late-'70s or so describing that writer's experiences with this same journey. It might be worth going back and looking for it.

Froggie

[Artful]

Ed Harris and Dean Grennell both had good write ups in the '70's about 45 ACP shotshell development.

[smilin jack]

Those look a lot like the ones used during ww2. I've been wanting to try making a few for my 454 out of 460 cases but can't get my hand on any.

Bullshop Junior, I have made quite a few of these shot cartridges for my 357 and 44 mag (straight wall cases) by loading them like a shotshell.

I start by sizing, priming and belling the case. Add a light load of Bullseye (try 4 grains- much more tends to blow the pattern apart). Add an over powder cardboard wad made from a cereal box. Add small shot until the case is nearly full, leaving enough room for another cardboard wad over the shot and finish with a light crimp.
I put laquer or finger nail polish to seal the top of the case. They all work great on pop cans at a few steps. I only got one snake, but it didn't wiggle so worked great in my mind.
Dave

[BNE]

Try them on Bumble bees. Its like shooting miniature sporting clays in your yard.

[Rfeustel]

Loaded up a few, the wads were cut down to 11/16" and hard to get in on the first one. After that my brain started working and I used the wad guide off of one of my shotshell reloaders.

They hold 84.9+\- grains of #12 or around 425 pellets. Used 6 grains of 231 and over-shot wads punched from a 12ga hull.

Step by step.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20140324_215949_165_zps79968427.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_145002_558_zpsa27dad0f.jpg

They patterned tighter that my other pistol shot loads using Speer capsules, maybe because of the wad.?

15ft
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/IMG_20140325_151846_039_zpsc66561aa.jpg

Video link of them running.
http://s121.photobucket.com/user/jmorrismetal/media/reloading/45%20acp%20shotshell%20die/VID_20140325_151407_117_zps82af9b35-1.mp4.html

JMorris-old post I know. Do you recall the diameter punch you used for the overshot cards?

[Mk42gunner]

3/8" works for primer sleeve over shot wads, at least for me. I have also used 35 cal gas checks, kind of depends how much you crimp the mouth.

Robert

[jmorris]

JMorris-old post I know. Do you recall the diameter punch you used for the overshot cards?

Well, can’t say you didn’t use the search feature. :)

They gasket punch is 3/8” but the plastic pops out of it a little larger in diameter, once the crimp is rolled over the ID at the mouth is 5/16.

[Alferd Packer]

push wads in sideways.Then use a pencil orflat end dowel or bolt to turn it flat before pushing it down

Use a pair of needle nose pliers
.

[Alferd Packer]

I believe the shotsleeve to be very important to the load.
Without it, the shotload is spun in a whirlpool and flies outward as soon as it exit the barrel.
A lot of the shot charge is waste and what does hit is a small amount except within very short range.

[Mk42gunner]

I think the shotcup does more good by protecting the shot from the rifling. It prevents shot from being scrubbed out of round by contact with the bore, and it helps prevent leading.

The shot charge is still going to be spun by the twist, but you have more round shot that helps the pattern, instead of immediately departing for left field as it leaves the muzzle.

Robert

[Mr_Sheesh]

On the shells I make with the RCBS die sets, I use 375 gas checks, and they do an excellent job. Good to know that .357 ones work too.

[Alferd Packer]

I think the shotcup does more good by protecting the shot from the rifling. It prevents shot from being scrubbed out of round by contact with the bore, and it helps prevent leading.

The shot charge is still going to be spun by the twist, but you have more round shot that helps the pattern, instead of immediately departing for left field as it leaves the muzzle.

Robert
I agree.

[Nomes]

I take it that it doesn't hurt the barrel at all?

[Mk42gunner]

None of my shotloads have.

Robert