Ogival Wadcutters

[Outpost75]

Thought I would let the collected happy throng know that Tom at Accurate molds has recently added these revolver ogival wadcutters in .32, .38/.357, .44 and .45 to his lineup.

These resemble the 1929 Harold-Croft designs produced by Modern Bond and Belding & Mull, as pictured in Sharpe (1935) and in Sixguns by Keith (1955), which have not been available for many years. Croft's design was popularized by Keith and is of proven effectivness. While later Keith SWC types are more accurate at long range, the Croft bullets feed more smoothly from lever-actions and have a larger meplat than typical cowboy bullets. They are intended to be seated and crimped at the same overall cartridge length as standard ammunition, to provide additional powder space for assembling "full charge" wadcutters in the .38/.44 Heavy Duty, Keith .44 Special, .32 H&R Magnum and .45 Auto Rimmed.

I am very glad to have high quality, modernized 5-cavity gang molds for producing these.

The .44 caliber 270-grain is a double-crimp-groove design. Using the rear crimp groove gives a cartridge OAL of 1.71" in the .44 Magnum, which exploits the greater cylinder length of the Ruger Redhawk. In the .44 Special the rear crimp grove gives an OAL of 1.59" to increase powder capacity within normal cartridge length in .44 Special brass. The front crimp groove give a 1.61" OAL in .44 Magnum rounds which is within normal SAAMI overall cartridge length for the lever actions and short cylinder revolvers.

The .45 Cal., while being designed especially for the Auto Rimmed, has a tapered nopse, resembling the shape of the 31-087T bullet in .32 ACP, so will also feed in the M1911 pistol and its clones.

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[historicfirearms]

Great, there goes my next paycheck! I "need" one of each, very cool designs.

[7Acres]

Thanks for sharing. I'd love to check out that 45-245D.

[StrawHat]

With the exception of the added weight (245 vs 235) is there any advantage to this shape for use in revolvers, over the full wadcutter?

[Treeman]

Strawhat, Yes. Or- No. It depends upon your goals. Ogival wadcutters or some of the old designs that some call "button nosed" have bearing surfaces and crmiping grooves comparable to roundnosed and SWC designs. This make it easy to work from other data for those RN and SWC designs to develop full power wadcutter loads. According to some theories these WCs also maintain accuracy at longer ranges than standard WCs.Also they feed in lever actions better and drop into revolver cylinders more easily than a WC seated all the wy into the case. OTOH they take slightly more powder for normal target velocities (since they aren't seated as deep)and don't cut absolutely clean full calibre holes like a full calibre HBWC or DEWC .-And they won't feed in target autoloaders made for 38 special. Choose your purposes

[square butte]

I would like to see the above 36-180H and 31-115H modified for use in rifle. Add a gas check and reduce the diameter on the forward bore ride portion of the 36-180H and you would have something similar to the lyman 311-440 that could be used with considerable authority in 358 Winchester - 35 Rem and 35 Whelen. Same thing for the 31-115H. Reduce the diameter of forward bore ride to work in say 32-20. Might not feed to well in a lever - but would be a hammer.

[Outpost75]

I would like to see the above 36-180H and 31-115H modified for use in rifle. Add a gas check and reduce the diameter on the forward bore ride portion of the 36-180H and you would have something similar to the lyman 311-440 that could be used with considerable authority in 358 Winchester - 35 Rem and 35 Whelen. Same thing for the 31-115H. Reduce the diameter of forward bore ride to work in say 32-20. Might not feed to well in a lever - but would be a hammer.


Look at the Accurate website. He already has a #311440 equivalent. What we did here wasto rework the rifle bullets to re-create the old pre-Keith handgun hunting bullets.

[Char-Gar]

Look at the Accurate website. He already has a #311440 equivalent. What we did here wasto rework the rifle bullets to re-create the old pre-Keith handgun hunting bullets.

Heretic! Get a rope! He just insinuated that bullets before Elmer Keith had merit and utility. Such deviance from accepted doctrine can't be tolerated. The fact that he is correct should be no excuse, deviate thinking breeds all sorts of abnormalities. World order is in jeopardy. :-)

[square butte]

Yes I have seen it and have 3 copies of that mold by different makers - But Accurate does not have a version like the above boolit in a .313/.314 diameter in 115 grain that would be appropriate in say a 32-20 ( I believe the length and diameter of the bore ride portion of the above boolit would be too long and large to chamber in a 32-20 or even 30-30). Also not one in .360 diameter in 180-200 grain that would chamber in .35 cal rifle calibers. Again, length and diameter of the bore ride portion of the above boolits would not chamber well in 35 cal rifles. Too much engrave.

[Outpost75]

While the drawings are dimensioned for revolvers, you can order off Tom's website and specify a different bore riding nose diameter, and he can work with in tweaking the design to adapt to rifle use, if that is what you want. Ask and you shall receive.

[square butte]

I have looked forward to ordering a mold from Tom for quite some time. Your new designs just may have pushed me over the edge. I hope you did not take my post as any sort of criticism. To the contrary - what you have come up with are great designs. Just got me to thinking about some other wants that have been nagging for quite some time. Thanks very much for sharing these with us

[Outpost75]

I have looked forward to ordering a mold from Tom for quite some time. Your new designs just may have pushed me over the edge. I hope you did not take my post as any sort of criticism. To the contrary - what you have come up with are great designs. Just got me to thinking about some other wants that have been nagging for quite some time. Thanks very much for sharing these with us

I understand exactly where you are coming from. I started working off one of Tom's GC rifle designs, wanting a plain base, enlarged bore ride which would engrave positively for guidance, like a wadcutter, but would enter revolver cylinder throats without resistance. Different purposes entirely.

I am looking for 900-1050 fps revolver loads with 10 BHN alloy. Only rifle use is the same ammo fired in a cowboy rifle, about 1200 fps. Low noise, good whack at short range, but if I could stretch that to 100 yards would be a plus!

[square butte]

I wish Tom were capable of below .30 cal. (.22 - .24 - .25 etc.)

[Outpost75]

Heretic! Get a rope! He just insinuated that bullets before Elmer Keith had merit and utility. Such deviance from accepted doctrine can't be tolerated. The fact that he is correct should be no excuse, deviate thinking breeds all sorts of abnormalities. World order is in jeopardy. :-)

ROTFLMAO! Except that Marlins don't feed Keiths when the boar is within hot breath distance.

[revolvergeek]

Very interesting!! I need to pick up the .36 and .311 ones.

Thanks for the info.

[35remington]

If you read Elmer Keith's "The Last Word", which was about his #5 Colt in 44 Special, the article being penned in 1929, you'll notice Harold Croft's "Man Stopper Bullets" look similar to these ogival wadcutters. The bullets pictured may have a bit larger meplat glancing at the drawings above compared to Mr. Croft's version but at one pace's distance it would be hard to tell them apart.

Weight in 44 special persuasion (the 44 magnum was not a glimmer in Elmer's eye then) was 260 grains for Croft's Man Stopper Bullets. When using Croft's iteration Elmer considered it limited to not much over 50 yards.

At ranges where we actually shoot things with handguns such bullets would be no handicap. The Auto Rim version is appealing......hopefully the bearing surface is sufficient to not be prone to the wholesale skidding heavy Auto Rim bullets are subject to in shallow land barrels. Chargar, hope you can tolerate that reference to bullet grip considering our past comments/discussion on the Auto Rim. I still think about the issue at times, colored, obviously, by my own experiences in that regard.

[44MAG#1]

Looks very similar to a 600 Nitro bullet in shape. Maybe he has something here. One for the 45 Colt at 260 grains, give or take, would be good.

[Outpost75]

Good comments all. I don't view this as a long range bullet, but if it is a good killer and smooth feeder in the Marlin, with adequate hunting accuracy to 50 yards or so, anything more is gravy.

[StrawHat]

...Looks very similar to a 600 Nitro bullet in shape...

I believe there was a bit of research that found a wide meplat on the solid bullets helped to maintain a straight line of penetration.

On the 45 boolit, the nose is more tapered than the others. Is this because the boolit will be used in a pistol with the chamber and barrel one piece? Kind of a bore riding effect?

[Outpost75]

..... On the 45 boolit, the nose is more tapered than the others. Is this because the boolit will be used in a pistol with the chamber and barrel one piece? Kind of a bore riding effect?

Correct, the .45 is intended to be useable in the M1911 pistol and clones as well as in revolvers

[StrawHat]

Correct, the .45 is intended to be useable in the M1911 pistol and clones as well as in revolvers

Thank you.

[Thumbcocker]

Kinda favors one of Elmer's Belding and Mull designs listed in Sixguns. 280 grns?

[Outpost75]

Kinda favors one of Elmer's Belding and Mull designs listed in Sixguns. 280 grns?

The .44 should drop 270 grains in COWW, the .38 Special 180 and the .32 at 115 grs.

[Good Cheer]

This one is from 1981 by Richard Hoch in Montrose, Colorado.
Very accurate design made for the old five groove Ruger carbon steel barrels. Wouldn't hit the side of a barn in the Ruger stainless barrels or in Colt barrels.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/HochSecuritySixMold_zpsfd6ec311.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/HochSecuritySixMold_zpsfd6ec311.jpg.html)