Am I seeing a trend starting?

[sidecarmike]

Each of the ranges I go to have buckets for empty brass. I'll usually keep a couple gallon sized ziplocks in the shooting bag just for that. Rather than play hog, I will pour a bag or two out of the 5 gallon pails and sort them at home.
My son has a disabled friend who makes "steampunk" clothing and jewelry. Most of what we get goes to him, but I sort it all first.
In the past two or three years, I'd get 5 or 6 .40cals for every one of anything else. These days it's changed. My last three trips have all been about the same.
100307

9mm's outnumber 40's by almost ten to one!

The first time, I just thought someone had been there picking out the 40's. The second time, from a different range, I just thought it an odd coincidence. This third time the scale tipped even further toward 9mm.
I read recently that a lot of police departments are abandoning the 40's and going back to 9mm and 45 ACP. I'm curious if this is happening in the private sector?
I have noticed a lot more 40's on the shelf at the local stores lately. Are people not shooting it anymore?

Something else I am seeing is a lot more Long Colts than I used to. Not huge quantities, but this last batch had 18 of them in it. And one lonely 10mm. :)

The contents of the last bag, after I culled the steel and aluminum;
1 10mm
12 .380s
18 45 Colts
13 assorted rifle rounds
23 brass 223's
84 40 S&W
442 9mm Luger

[Love Life]

Very interesting indeed. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread. Maybe everybody finally thinks the 40 S&W is overated like I do. More recoil than the 9mm and less stank than the 45 ACP.

[sidecarmike]

Very interesting indeed. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread. Maybe everybody finally thinks the 40 S&W is overated like I do. More recoil than the 9mm and less stank than the 45 ACP.

I can't say, I've never fired one. Nothing against it, just no need when I have 9mm, 45ACP, and 45 Colt. If I ever add another caliber, it will probably be a wheelgun. Most likely a .357 mag.

[dudel]

You could be right. I see lots more .40 ammo on the shelves than 9mm at the local store.

[KohlerK91]

With the rise of ammo prices, 9mm seems to be the cheapest?

Commercial loader I talk to says he sells very little 40 ammo.

[geargnasher]

I know I don't screw around with the .40 anymore. Or the 9mm, for that matter. .45 brass has small and large pockets so I'll load whichever I can get cheap primers for.

Last time I scrounged the local range (two weeks ago) there was a lot of .45 ACP and .38 special on the ground. Last year it would mostly have been .40 with a steady but much smaller percentage of 9mm and .45 and almost no revolver brass.

Am I the only one who gets annoyed by all the piles of .223 brass littering the 25-yard HANDGUN range? Maybe I should be happy that the mall ninjas are practicing for realistic urban engagement distances with long arms, but really, who's planning to go door busting looking for Zombies?


Gear

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I know I don't screw around with the .40 anymore. Or the 9mm, for that matter. .45 brass has small and large pockets so I'll load whichever I can get cheap primers for.

Last time I scrounged the local range (two weeks ago) there was a lot of .45 ACP and .38 special on the ground. Last year it would mostly have been .40 with a steady but much smaller percentage of 9mm and .45 and almost no revolver brass.

Am I the only one who gets annoyed by all the piles of .223 brass littering the 25-yard HANDGUN range? Maybe I should be happy that the mall ninjas are practicing for realistic urban engagement distances with long arms, but really, who's planning to go door busting looking for Zombies?


Gear
Yeah, I see that too

It's easier to hit the target :)

[jmorris]

The fellow that has my brass sorting machine, runs a business selling brass, always asks me if I need a bucket of .40 brass when I stop by. There are a lot of shooters that use it but they play USPSA where you can't make " major" with a bullet smaller than .40 unless you shoot open.

The only piles of brass I was ever annoyed at were ones that had SP primers in 45cases, until I built a device that sorts them.

[AMT7]

You guys are kinda on target. This varies some by local as we are sorting a total of 58 gallons on indoor range pistol brass from Red Castle in Tulsa and the ratios are similar except we are seeing somewhat more 40S&W. But its impossible to tell if the percentage changed within the last year with such a batch so your numbers are more current but local specific. Yes we see some long colts too.
My opinion is the 40 Short & Weak has finally proved out its stats as inferior with LE and minds are changing and cost has aggravated the obsolence. The 9mm is a good round for many reasons cost being a major one but not capeable of 45acp power & range or the superior 10mm. So folks wanting more range & power go for the bigger two but shoot conservatively and many also shoot and back up with 9mm Luger and lesser amount 380acp as we are seeing more of that than we expected. Me personally wont shoot 380acp but wife chose pocket gun sig 238 due to size feel and the patented rainbow titanium slide finish and rosewood grips. But she is regretting the recoil and ergonomics and wants to go poly subcompact to sig 259 in 9mm which is not as pretty but is slightly more controllable due to slide weight and frame flex as the 380acp sig is more rigid steel frame.
However my preferences run in reverse order least to most:
Kel-tec PF9 summer only as I am small framed.
S&W M&P Shield 9mm. Wife likes also. Practice gun for both us and adult kids. Wife likely will end up with :-(
Walther PPS 9mm my practice fav.
Tanflugio EAA Witness Compact Carry P 10mm auto my little cannon, Dirty Harry gun for small framed guys.
Want but do not own yet;
1911 Para iin stainless with comp bbl in .45acp and probably will get conversion to 10mm but will shoot both.
Edited for typos

[Love Life]

Interesting post AMT7. I had a S&W 4013TSW for about a year and just couldn't understand all the jazz about the 40S&W. More recoil than the 9mm and very snappy, and not as much stank as the 45 acp. I was a happy camper when I sold it for more than I paid for it.

[Pb2au]

This is an interesting thread. I agree, I'm wondering if people have simply decided that 40 is not all that and a bag of doritos...
Me, I am an old fogey. 45acp. Dirt simple, heavy slug. Big hole.

[freebullet]

Always been way more 9 round here, I'm good with that cause it saves lead.

Here its
9
40
223
Steel 7.62x39

I pick it all up even steel if it ain't rusted. On the down side there are a lot more people scrounging it.

[historicfirearms]

Why the 40 hate? It does fill a niche between the 9 and 45. If someone only could afford one handgun, it wouldn't be a bad choice IMHO.

[Love Life]

Why the 40 hate? It does fill a niche between the 9 and 45. If someone only could afford one handgun, it wouldn't be a bad choice IMHO.

Just differences in opinion I reckon. The 10mm fills that niche much better...

[Pb2au]

No 40 hatred. Never shot one myself, but I just never felt my heart strings pulled by the idea of one.

[lawdog941]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have carried 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45ACP for duty. Of the 3, the 45 gave me confidence of hitting something with a big bullet, just not totally accurate for my part. The 40 gave me no confidence and I would barely qualify due to recoil and probably my mental state. However, I went back to the 9mm and I don't regret it. I can shoot accurately and place the bullet where I want it to go. After all these years it still comes down to bullet placement and not the size of the bullet.

[gunoil]

There has been a glass case full of used 40 cal glocks in jims store lately for sell. l have a 40 keltec carbine. Thats it. I load 45.9.380.

[canyon-ghost]

In the last two years, I've bought two more 9mms myself.

[Love Life]

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze with the 40...

[dragon813gt]

I've never picked up much 40 brass at the ranges I go to. I will pick up five gallons of nine to maybe every gallon of 40. It just depends on what people shoot at that range. There are times that I go home w/ buckets full of 223 brass. While others there is none on the ground. And I stop daily, multiple ranges, when the weather is warm.

[geargnasher]

I agree, LL. I didn't shoot the .40 much because of the sting, it just gets old after a magazine or two. Now a good long-slide 1911 in .45 ACP, I can shoot one of those all day and it hits like a flying cinder block. The nines are fun too, and I sure wouldn't stand in front of one, but if I have to put a hole in something I'd like it to be as large as practical.

Gear

[Love Life]

Oh, I like to shoot my ar's at 25 yds and post the targets up and claim I shot them at 200 yds...

Muahahahahaha!!

[btroj]

Typical Marine.......

I have never shot a 40, no desire to do so. I like a 9 mm for lead savings but the 45 sure is hard to beat for fun.

[wv109323]

In my area 9MM is more popular as range pick-up. There is some pretty economical 9MM ammo on the market. One guy in my club says he does not pick up his 9MM brass because "he can't save enough money and doesn't have the time to reload 9MM versus new ammo". He does not cast and would have to buy bullets.

[btroj]

I don't care what brass I find, I bring it all home. What I can use I use, the rest goes in a Scrap bucket.
I sometimes wonder if I go the range to shoot or to gather scrap brass and lead from the berms.

[geargnasher]

It's a sickness. I have boxes of cleaned, sorted, and prepped brass for calibers I don't own taking up room on my shelves. Truth is, if you subscribe to Gear's Rules, at a certain point one must purchase a gun to use the brass accumulated. Apparently I REALLY want a Tommy gun.

Gear

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Thing is, with the prices for scrap brass these days, it's wise to pick up anything brass. My local scrapyard pays $1.50 a pound for any brass I bring in. For brass I can't reload and can't sell, that's a good profit margin for me.

As far as calibers go, I always wanted a Browning High Power. I came across an Arcu 94, a copy of an Israeli Browning hi power clone and shot it/reloaded for it for a couple years, then sold it. I still have and still shoot, cast and reload for all my 1911 pistols. I still haven't bought a glock or one of the glock clones and at this point, don't see a reason to buy one of those bulky things. Offers no advantage in a firefight to a 1911 in .45ACP, assuming you keep a cool head about you and fire aimed shots.

[John Boy]

9mm's outnumber 40's by almost ten to one!
At our club, in the pits, on the general purpose ranges, the outdoor & indoor pistol ranges ... 22LR rim fires outnumber any center fire 50 to one!

[Vinne]

I see the same thing here. Last year it was 40s to 9mm almost even but favored 40s a little. Now this year it has turned around 9mm to 40s about 2 to 1 with 45s about 1 in 50.

[Bzcraig]

Very interesting indeed. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread. Maybe everybody finally thinks the 40 S&W is overated like I do. More recoil than the 9mm and less stank than the 45 ACP.

I too never drank the 40 Kool aid when the 45 could out perform the 40 in every way by changing the load. IIRC the 40 was adopted by many LE Agencies because, in part, the criteria was to have a double stack magazine and the double stack 45 made a grip too large for women and smaller men hands and the 10mm was deemed to powerful for women thus the 40.

[fastfire]

I am the vise president of our local range and do the maintance.
I have got the brass disease, I pickup everything brass. Used to be mostly 9mm and then 40 and a few 45s.
Now I get more 40 than 9mm and a lot more 45s than in the past years. I hate steel cases because I have to pick up the steel. I tried to scrap 2 buckets of steel cases but no scrapyards will take it.

[AMT7]

Always been way more 9 round here, I'm good with that cause it saves lead.

Here its
9
40
223
Steel 7.62x39

I pick it all up even steel if it ain't rusted. On the down side there are a lot more people scrounging it.

Curious, why bother picking up steel. Are you recycling/ scrapping them?

[AMT7]

At our club, in the pits, on the general purpose ranges, the outdoor & indoor pistol ranges ... 22LR rim fires outnumber any center fire 50 to one!

I am seeing that also in the sorting just did not mention that in 1st post.

[AMT7]

I am the vise president of our local range and do the maintance.
I have got the brass disease, I pickup everything brass. Used to be mostly 9mm and then 40 and a few 45s.
Now I get more 40 than 9mm and a lot more 45s than in the past years. I hate steel cases because I have to pick up the steel. I tried to scrap 2 buckets of steel cases but no scrapyards will take it.

I am gonna have same problem. Thinking of melting it down but may not be worth the high temp torch gas.

[warf73]

I find this thread funny as the 9mm to 40S&W ratio has always favored 9mm. When I was on a shooting team from 1997~2000 we would police the range prior to our range time, and even back then it was probly 10~12 to 1 in favor of the 9mm. At that time I was running a 45acp and desided to try the 9mm what a big mistake that was. 9mm was slow on removing bowling pins from the table also wasn't very impresive on live animals. BUT I was coming from shooting a 45acp and going to the 9mm so it wasn't fair compairson.
I did shoot a few 40's but glock was the only real game in town. Shooting 100 rounds a week from a 1911, then grab a glock the grip angle blew cookies. Also the 40 did sting coming out of a glock.
Fast foward to 2008 the wife wants a CC gun so we headed to the rang and test fire 3 glocks and 3 XD's (9mm, 40S&W and 45acp). The wife picked the XD 40 over the 9mm and 45acp she said it had less recoil to her. I didn't argure with her as I thought the 45acp had less recoil, than the 9mm or 40 but had to get something she would shoot. We both agreed the glocks had a sting to them over the XD's. Her and I both carry 165gr bullets in our 40's but since I got her a P238 she carries it way more than the 40.

Bottom line I really don't think the 40 lost any luster just from my observation, the 9mm has ALWAYS been cheaper to shoot. If its cheaper to shoot people are going to buy it and shoot it. Since I've started hitting the range alot something I have noticed compared to a few years back. Very few 22's are being fired, they used to have a 22 only bucket its no longer there.
This past saturday I seen more wheel guns than autos (made my heart glow), but the saturday before that my buddy and I was the only wheele gun shooter. Last Tuesday I was the only wheel rest were auto's (only 8 of us shooting) so it depends on the day of the week really.

[garym1a2]

I am a big 40S&W fan from my Glocks. For the USPSA game you can load it down to minor power factor and recoil is much less than the 9mm plus it makes big holes in paper that I can see at a distance. For a car gun the 15 rounds of Gold dots will get the job done.

Its also nice that the cases are like dirt at my range so I have plenty. Plus I have never ran into them with crimped primers or mismatch primers like the 9mm,223 and 45 acp.

Its also nice that the shelves of used guns at the shops always have a few guns and bullets on hand.

P.S. the 9mm conversion barrels also work quite well in my G22 and G35 so I can have the best of both worlds.

While my G21 is also a great gun if I was expecting trouble I would have a 9mm barrel installed and the 19 round mags loaded in the glock35.

[Bulldogger]

Yeah, I see that too

It's easier to hit the target :)

The little 25 yard handgun-caliber-only range near me bulked their backstop up to be able to handle rifle calibers. They did it on purpose to get the TactiCrap crowd in with their mall ninja commando rifles. It's good money, apparently, but now the 25-yard range is down to 22! I think that's short for handguns!

Oh well.

BDGR

[CastingFool]

Oh, I like to shoot my ar's at 25 yds and post the targets up and claim I shot them at 200 yds...

Muahahahahaha!!

When I was in the Army, during basic training, we sighted our M-16's at 25 meters. We did have to compensate for elevation when shooting at the 300 meter targets.

[sidecarmike]

I find this thread funny as the 9mm to 40S&W ratio has always favored 9mm. When I was on a shooting team from 1997~2000 we would police the range prior to our range time, and even back then it was probly 10~12 to 1 in favor of the 9mm. ...
Not the case around here. Two or three years ago we picked up 3 nearly full five gallon buckets of shells right after the snow melted. In the entire pile, after sorting, I only got about 400 9mm's, but had one bucket half full of 40's. This was not the police range. It was just a county park in a small village.

I have nothing against the 40. I just already reload six other calibers and decided that is enough.

[wnmGng]

I'm a big fan of .40, and it's one of my favorite pistol cartridges, unless it's in a glock. Glocks feel like they have more recoil to me, even hot 40 loads feel like powderpuffs in my steyr s40, lighter than my 1911 or g19.

Its a shame nobody shoots it around here, I think I've found 2 or 3 pieces of 40 brass in the past year, and I'm pretty sure they were mine too.

[s1120]

I go to a small club, that's not that busy. Most shooters clean up very well, and the club saves the brass for the club budget. That being said, if I find any 45acp on the ground that the earlier shooter did not pick up, Im grabbing it!! But I also normally only find 9mm, and 40s&w.. and its about 50/50

[silverado]

I know I don't screw around with the .40 anymore. Or the 9mm, for that matter. .45 brass has small and large pockets so I'll load whichever I can get cheap primers for.

Last time I scrounged the local range (two weeks ago) there was a lot of .45 ACP and .38 special on the ground. Last year it would mostly have been .40 with a steady but much smaller percentage of 9mm and .45 and almost no revolver brass.

Am I the only one who gets annoyed by all the piles of .223 brass littering the 25-yard HANDGUN range? Maybe I should be happy that the mall ninjas are practicing for realistic urban engagement distances with long arms, but really, who's planning to go door busting looking for Zombies?


Gear

I've seen them resting s scoped ar rifle on a beanbag shooting groups at 25 yards

[LaPoint]

It is interesting that this subject has come up at this time. Our PD is switching from the .40 S&W to 9mm in the very near future. We have carried the G22C for the last 14 years and will be issued the G19. The driving factor appears to be cost and availability of training and duty ammo. Recently the lead time for 40 cal ammo has been more than a year and a half and I believe we are still waiting for some. 9mm is readily available and costs less. Current 9mm duty ammo performance is very close to that of the 40 cal. The big issue of course is ability to hit what you're shooting at. The 9mm is more manageable for smaller or less capable shooters. Not all Officers are avid shooters or practice on their own time or on their own dime so this is an important issue. Sioux Falls PD did an interesting study that supports my statements. Sorry for the windy post.

[remy3424]

I am seeing the same...was mostly 40s, now mostly 9s....just bought my first 40 S&W, so I am glad I have kept back an ice cream pail of 40s.

[oldfart1956]

Hmmm...I'm thinking the ratio of 40-vs-9mm might also be skewed by magazine capacity. Brothers Sigma 9mm holds what...14/15 rounds? My Kahr CW40 holds about half that many so yeah there would be more 9mm brass. Another thought concerning the recoil issue is a lot of it has to do with ergonomics. My Kahr weighs half what big brothers Sigma weighs with both loaded to full capacity and yet having shot them side by side we both agree the 40s&w Kahr recoil is less than the Sigma in 9mm. Go figger? Kahr got the ergonomics right. And I'm not pushing the .40, quite frankly I don't think caliber matters. And I don't advocate anyone buy a Kahr. And I don't reload for either. And since I just remembered he has a S&W Shield in 9mm that recoils borders on the abusive. It is more comparable to the Kahr in size and weight. S&W did not get the ergo's right on that one. :) Just some observations. Audie...the Oldfart..

[runfiverun]

if I go to the range looking for brass it better be 22 lr.
finding more than 8-9 pieces of anything is exciting enough to call back to the house and tell the wife.

[Blanco]

I came back to reloading after taking a rather long break. The ammunition shortages scared me to the point of doing something about it. I shoot 3 auto pistols, Beretta 96 with a 9mm additional barrel, S&W M&P Pro 40 and a Glock 21.
In 9mm mode the Beretta is the most accurate pistol I have ever owned. Interestingly the Glock with my handloads is VERY close to the Beretta. The extra recoil keeps it in 2nd place.
The M&P is a recent addition. I got it specifically because it fits my hands better than any other pistols out there. I was a bit surprized that it had accuracy issues. After a bunch of shooting and experimenting I have found that the M&P is very particular about which loadings it likes. I like shooting the 40 but it is a bit stiff in the recoil with a number of loads.what I found was interesting is that percieved recoil with lighter loads is greater with the M&P ? So far my best accuracy has been with loadings that go just beyond the reccommended pressure ratings in the Lyman manual. That particular load that is accurate even though it exceeds the pressure rating is also the one that has the least percieved recoil. Just the opposite of what I would expect.
So I'm not real sure where that leaves me. I love the .40 but in order to make it fun to shoot I have to make it dangerous.
I'm not going to get rid of it though. I will keep trying different loadings. So far my shooting experiments tend to show that .40 in my M&P tends to favor a bit slower burning powder at higher velocities and pressures.

[AMT7]

The little 25 yard handgun-caliber-only range near me bulked their backstop up to be able to handle rifle calibers. They did it on purpose to get the TactiCrap crowd in with their mall ninja commando rifles. It's good money, apparently, but now the 25-yard range is down to 22! I think that's short for handguns!

Oh well.

BDGR

Way to short , me and the boys like 100 yds :-) no less. I can't even see the target well that close. What is the challenge at that range putting hole in hole? Then again I am a bit farsighted. My Tanflugio EAA Witness Compact Carry poly in 10mm auto is my fav now and smokes pins or any thing else necessary at 100 yds easy & reload cost is only slightly more than 9mm. If your not afraid to mill, roll, and light 'em yourself.