RCBS 44-250-K v. 44-245-SWC ?

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm looking at RCBS molds for a 44 Special load in the 245-255gr range. I see two RCBS molds that look very similar but I can't seem to figure out why the "Keith" style one (44-250-K) is 250 grains and the plain ol' 44-245-SWC is listed as 5 grains less? Is there any real difference?

[Bigslug]

Thicker front driving band on the Keith. Elmer was a stickler for three equal length driving bands - a beefy front one helping with alignment going into the bore, and a beefy extra pair helping maintain it.

[Petrol & Powder]

So, the two designs are fairly close?

[GLL]

For Reference:

http://www.fototime.com/2CB4022C53F7A88/orig.jpg

The 44-245 KT was changed to the 44-245 SWC but is the same mold ! (#82043)
The 44-250 KT was changed to the 44-250 SWC and then discontinued ! (#82044)

The 44-250 KT is one of my favorites in .44 Special.

Jerry

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, that helped a lot. The 44-245KT and the current 44-245-SWC are the same bullet but they have a shorter front driving band from the 44-250KT.
Of my current RCBS choices, which one is better?

[GLL]

The 44-250-KT (#82044) is no longer in production and would have to be found used. It would be my own choice for .44 Special if I were buying an RCBS mold.

The 44-250-K (#82080) is very popular and somewhat the equivalent of the old IDEAL/LYMAN 429421.

I feel most would choose the 44-250-K over the 44-245-KT but it is mainly a personal preference.

Jerry

[MtGun44]

Go for 44-250-K. This is one of the really good Keith type molds, works very well for me.

Bill

[ShooterAZ]

Go for 44-250-K. This is one of the really good Keith type molds, works very well for me.

Bill

Same here. I love this mold. It's a keeper with medium target loads and full steam loads.

[Petrol & Powder]

Well that settles it, 44-250-K it is.
Thanks all.

[MtGun44]

10 gr of Unique is a nice moderate/warmish load, 8.5 is a mild load and Elmer's 20 gr of 2400 really
did it for my warthogs.

Bill

[Petrol & Powder]

Yea, powder is a bit difficult to come by right now and I don't have Unique on hand. I might be able to get some Unique in the next week or two. Haven't seen 2400 in a long time. Any others that will work?

[ShooterAZ]

Bill's loads and mine are essentially the same. One or the other of us must have peeked at our load notebooks:). It wasn't me because I have never been to Kansas. 8.5-10 gr Unique and 19-20 gr 2400. I also found a powderpuff load of 4.2 gr of Clays to be VERY accurate and clean burning. I have two RCBS 44-250-K molds, found one at a gunshow for $10 bucks. That one was casting a tad undersized for my needs, but beagling one side did the trick. It's a wonderful boolit. Another favorite of mine is the NOE-44 200 gr RF. It casts at 220 gr with my 44 alloy and my Blackhawk loves this boolit sized to .431.

[Petrol & Powder]

The RCBS 44-250-K is on the way along with a .430" sizing die. I'll start looking for some Unique and maybe some 44 Special cases. I've got 44 mag factory cartridges which will eventually yield some brass, albeit magnum cases. Since I intend to load below magnum levels, I'd prefer to use Special cases, if I can find some. Ultimately I'd like to have one "all-around" 44 Special type load that's hotter than the factory 44 Special stuff but below 44 magnum level. If I could do it with WW231 or maybe Bullseye, that would keep my logistics simple but I'm fine with adding Unique to my supply provided I can find some.

[MTtimberline]

7.0 to 7.5 grains of 231/HP-38 works well for me with the 44-245-SWC and 429421 castings in Magnum cases. Makes for a good moderate load that is fun to shoot at the range. They are just above the Special level and go about 1000 FPS. The 429421 seems to provide better accuracy.

[h8dirt]

In a 44 MAGNUM (not Special)

10 gr of Unique is a nice moderate/warmish load, 8.5 is a mild load and Elmer's 20 gr of 2400 really
did it for my warthogs.

Bill

[h8dirt]

I use the 250 grainer sized to 0.431", 7.5 grains of Unique and a standard LPP for an "all around" warm load in my 44 Specials. It's pretty universally recognized as such. 17.0 grains of IMR4227 works good, too. They work for me; proceed with caution.


The RCBS 44-250-K is on the way along with a .430" sizing die. I'll start looking for some Unique and maybe some 44 Special cases. I've got 44 mag factory cartridges which will eventually yield some brass, albeit magnum cases. Since I intend to load below magnum levels, I'd prefer to use Special cases, if I can find some. Ultimately I'd like to have one "all-around" 44 Special type load that's hotter than the factory 44 Special stuff but below 44 magnum level. If I could do it with WW231 or maybe Bullseye, that would keep my logistics simple but I'm fine with adding Unique to my supply provided I can find some.

[canyon-ghost]

100360

This is a good read and tells you a lot about Elmer Keith.

[Petrol & Powder]

Thanks for all the info. And FWIW- the gun is a 629 so no worries about the hot 44 Special loads, they're still way below 44 mag. levels.

[30hrrtt]

My 245 - KT has a front driving band same as the middle but the lower band is narrower. It has shot the only one hole group at 50 with my Super Redhawk though several goes just under 1 1/2 inch.

[376Steyr]

I have an older 44-250-K. Darn thing wanted to drop at .429, just like it said on the outside of the box. I used Beagle tape to get it up to .430-.431. Once I switched to a softer alloy and a non-crayon lube I finally started to get the legendary .44 Special accuracy.

[Mal Paso]

Hmmmmmm... Wonder if Eric could join 2 of those RCBS Molds and make a 4 cavity......

Magnum Brass is usually the same price or less than Special. Shorter jump to the cylinder throat. You won't have to worry about warm loads getting into a Special. No advantage in smaller case volume with Unique.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm pondering Magnum brass v. Special brass. Seems the magnum brass does run a bit cheaper.
The cons for the magnum brass are: 1. The completed warm-ish Special cartridges will then look just like the magnum loads unless I use a different bullet or mark the case somehow. 2. The slightly larger case requires slightly more powder to achieve the same velocity.
The con for the Special brass is that it could potentially end up being chambered in a 44 Special only revolver. Although not an issue for me, it could be an issue for someone else if they inadvertently got their hands on those rounds.

Right now I'm leaning towards using all magnum brass. That eliminates all possibility of accidentally chambering a hot Special cartridge in a 44 Special only chamber. I could set the dies to the magnum case specs and leave them alone. My logistics would be simpler (less sorting, simpler component storage).
I don't intend to shoot many full power magnum loads. I was actually seeking a 44 Special revolver to start with but couldn't find one that didn't require a mortgage. I could just use J-word bullets for a few magnum rounds or buy factory magnum ammo in order to differentiate them from the Special rounds with cast bullets.
And Mal Paso, I like your thinking on the very custom mold. I decided to buy the RCBS 44-250-K but I wish they still made the 44-250KT. In any event, my budget is about shot and I'm now searching for Unique (and several other types of powders).

[Hickok]

I don't like using Special brass in magnum revolvers. Just like in the .357 mag when shooting a large number of .38 Specials, it sure makes cleaning the cylinder chambers a nasty chore. It may be just me, but the residue in the cylinders from firing a shorter case is worse than getting bad leading out of barrel.

[ACrowe25]

7.0 to 7.5 grains of 231/HP-38 works well for me with the 44-245-SWC and 429421 castings in Magnum cases. Makes for a good moderate load that is fun to shoot at the range. They are just above the Special level and go about 1000 FPS. The 429421 seems to provide better accuracy.

7.3 gr of 231 dropped two deer for me this year after only a few steps. He's correct.

[Petrol & Powder]

looks like a good load

[Mal Paso]

If you mark the primers with colored felt tip pens you can color code the loads without marking the cartridge. My Red primers are Ruger loads that should not go in the Smith.

[MTtimberline]

Can't wait to try the new addition MP 432 503 to compare to the others I already have. I love the way the RCBS casts and the way the Ideal shows up on paper. The 4 cavity MP hopefully will be the best of both worlds with higher production. Can you really have too many .44 molds?
I suggest you try the 7.5 load and you will find your .44 much more fun to shoot on the handgun range for extended amount of range time. This is especially true if you have a 4 5/8 or 5.5 barrel Vaquero. I use all magnum cases to simplify loading and load identification. The cylinder cleaning is also a plus for magnum cases. This is all my findings of course.

[Petrol & Powder]

10-4 on the 7.0 - 7.5 load. I'm not remotely interested in duplicating full magnum rounds. I'm pretty sure that 250grs of lead moving between 900-1000 fps will get the job done nicely.

[MT Gianni]

Another user here that marks primers as to load. I use red for my red dot loads as my 44 low power loads are 6.5 gr red dot for 950-1000 fps.

[Petrol & Powder]

Go for 44-250-K. This is one of the really good Keith type molds, works very well for me.

Bill

Bill, You called it ! The RCBS 44-250-K arrived and I finally got a chance to use it yesterday. That's a great mold! RCBS quality is very consistent. It dropped bullets at .433" with COWW alloy. Sized to .430" (same as the cylinder throats) and lubed with White label BAC. I didn't have a lot of time but I did load a few in 44 Special cases with some WW231 powder and they shot fine with no leading. In the next few months I hope to settle on a powder and do some cartridge tweaking, but it looks promising at this point.

Thanks to all.

[fredj338]

OK, that helped a lot. The 44-245KT and the current 44-245-SWC are the same bullet but they have a shorter front driving band from the 44-250KT.
Of my current RCBS choices, which one is better?
I cast & shoot both, both shoot well for me. The Lyman is hand cast 4cav, the RCBS on my Magma.
If I have a diff load for a diff gun, I prefer to use a diff bullet to designate the load. Of course, keeping them in properly marked boxes helps too.

[donjose]

10 gr of Unique is a nice moderate/warmish load, 8.5 is a mild load and Elmer's 20 gr of 2400 really
did it for my warthogs.

Bill

Was this done with 44 mag brass or 44 Special brass ?

[GaryN]

You must have a better memory than me. I cannot remember what I load different casings with. So I keep all loads in separate boxes and mark them with what they have in them. I also don't shoot specials in my magnums because of the ring of carbon that forms right in front of the special case. It can cause a problem when you go to shoot the magnums. 8.5 grains of unique is a very accurate load with a keith bullet in 250 grain.