How to package a rifle cheap and safe for shipment

[MBTcustom]

OK fellers admit it, we are some of the most gun tradinest folks on the internet. We swap guns like women swap handbags.
SO
Let's say Bob decides to sell 'ol Betsey, and use the money to buy the gun that Larry has for sale in swappin and sellin.
Bob posts up Ol Betsy and Joe falls in love with it cause it will match his hunting boots perfectly etc etc and proudly exclaims in bold blue text those magical words: "I'll Take IT!!!!!"
Happy day! Moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney!!!!!
Bob knows that the gun has to ship to a licensed FFL and he guesses that it's going to cost about $30 from the eagle truck drivin folks because that's what the average gunbroker seller lists for shipping. Brilliant I say!

Now, all he needs is a box!

I say, all he needs is a box.

Bob has a devil of a time finding a box. Bob receives the MO in the mail, but he's still trying to find a dam box!
Sends a PM to Joe explaining his troubles and Joe decides to be patient while wondering if he's getting screwed.
Finally in desperation, Bob either
A. cuts down a huge boxand hashes something together that looks like hammered hell.
Or B. goes to wally world and drops $75 on a gun case and then begs the associates to find him a box, whereupon striking out, he goes home and slips it lovingly into the the hammered hell box and makes up the difference with packing tape.
Bob's mad because he didn't end up with as much money as he thought he would and Joe is mad because the rifle shows up looking like USPS drug it behind the truck with a 30' tether cord and got happy with the off road deliveries.

Sound familiar?

Want to know a better way?

Joe PM's this thread to Bob about 5 minutes after the deal is done, and asks Bob if he would purchase said box and ship it in this way once it arrives, and offers to pay an extra $35 to make it happen.
Bob agrees wholeheartedly. What the heck, it's only $35 right? and after all, Joe was going to be paying for it. Why not?

So, Bob goes to www.Brownells.com and immediately orders this case from them:
100225
http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/gun-storage/gun-cases/single-rifle-case-prod41076.aspx
What with shipping it ends up being exactly $35.74 delivered.

When the box arrives with the case in it, open it up and remove the case.
Slip the rifle inside and don't forget to sip your coffee before and after shutting the case and snapping the plastic buckles shut (pinky in the air mind you).
Run zipties through all the the grommets around the perimeter (be sure to play some classical music while doing this. It heightens the experience.)
Slip it back into the box it was shipped to you in (mind you don't get a paper cut. If you where white gloves during this operation, it reduces the likelihood of this happening)
Tear even lengths of tape from a roll and close the end of the box.
Paste your shipping information over Brownells shipping information.
Take a leisurely drive to the Post Office or UPS or FedEX and hand it over to them and rest assured that it will reach it's destination perfectly intact and safe.
I have shipped everything from a 22 crickett to a bench rifle using this system and it works perfectly.
I do believe you could drag the rifle to it's state of destination by a logging chain and it would probably make it as long as it doesn't have to go through Missouri or Oklahoma LOL!

Now light your darn cigar and blow a smoke ring cause you just did it like a BOSS!

[country gent]

Some of the custom makers of BPCR now require 1 of 2 tthings to happen for your rifle to be shipped to you. You buy a hard case from them or send them one. My one came in a bow that looked from a flat sheet of corrogated card board and bent formed in a siding break. didnt look bad just looked like it was "made" for its intended use. It actually does work pretty good we would do it to ship parts to other plants at work. A Heavy Pallet liner and bending break make the box up and packaging tape. Didnt take long with the break had straight true bends and was solid.
But as you stated I also pefer shipping guns in a hard case in a box. much more protection and security had there.

[DRNurse1]

What a great idea. I might play Hank Sr instead of the classical stuff, but this is so elegant in its sheer simplicity....Thanks!

[Reg]

Yup, the hard case is a great way to go BUT
You still have to pack that rifle tight in that case. A few years back while still licensed used to buy and sell on a regular basis and had a lot of hard cases come through the door but every now and then one would show up with a hole punched in the end and often a muzzle sticking out or you could see where it had been. As luck would have it , never had any damage other than to the case itself and never had any damage whatever to any rifle but the potential is sure there.
I found that the foam, under hard impact, would let the rifle slide. If the butt hit, no problem but if the muzzle hit, it would go through.
I got to putting in a bit of extra foam around the rifle then putting a few thick layers of a heavy cardboard ( cut them on the band saw ) on the muzzle end. Puts a lot of extra pressure on the rifle but it sure wont move and if it does it won't punch through the end. Bind everything in fiberglass tape in multiple places along the length of the case.

You wouldn't think that a case like that could be handled so roughly but at times I thought that handy handle on top was used to "underhand" chuck it.

[texassako]

I have one of those cases. A rifle showed up in a box with that case in it and the buttstock had slipped out its' end. Scratched and gouged it all up. Tape the ends shut real good. The case is still warped from that trip several years ago. It is way better than J&G shipping a $1k rifle with no packing at all except a sheet of newspaper around the loose bolt, and arriving with the bolt hanging out of the box.

[sparky45]

One of the most helpful posts I've seen in a long time, thanks Tim!

[sidecarmike]

I have one of those cases. A rifle showed up in a box with that case in it and the buttstock had slipped out its' end. Scratched and gouged it all up. Tape the ends shut real good. The case is still warped from that trip several years ago. It is way better than J&G shipping a $1k rifle with no packing at all except a sheet of newspaper around the loose bolt, and arriving with the bolt hanging out of the box.

Interesting. Here in Wisconsin, it's legal to ship long guns to another Wisconsin address without an FFL middle man. The one and only time I ever bought a rifle through the mail, it arrived from Milwaukee in an undamaged box. Inside the canvas case, it had a tennis ball on the end of the barrel. I thought the guy did it to protect the front sight. Never thought about it saving the case or barrel.

[tomme boy]

I thought I was the only one that have done this. Easiest way there is to get a box. I put right up front if it is going to ship in a hard case it is XXXX amount extra. I also ask if they want insurance. Then it will be XXX amount extra. I use a lot of strapping tape when I ship stuff. I don't want anything coming out and getting lost. Ask anyone I sell stuff to. The heavy brass is really taped up well. You have to to make sure stuff arrives like it is supposed to. I have a tape machine too, but I don't like that type of tape. It is the paper with threads through it. It has to be put on with water to the back to activate the glue on the tape. The strapping tape has nylon fibers running through it and it very strong.

Tim, I think this should be a sticky in the for sale section. It could help a lot of people out.

[snowwolfe]

Easiest way to get the perfect box is to visit your LGS as most cutomers don't want the box and they just toss them in the dumpster. Failing that go to Cabelas as they sell hard plastic cases for $20.
If that fails order one from Amazon for $25. Not only will you get the hard plastic case but it will also be delivered inside a cardboard box.

Beware if a buyer declines insurance it is still the sellers responsibility to deliver the item as it was described.

[Frank46]

I once sold a lyman junior targetspot to a gent and racked my brain on shipping it so it wouldn't get crushed. Got 3" and the thickest schedule pvc pipe I could find. Rolled the scope in bubble wrap, taped the ends together and then stuffed it in the triangular mailer you get at the po. Scope arrived safely and I take no credit as the idea came from someone on the assra forum. Heavy rifle barrels get two inch and plenty of bubble wrap. Last time I shipped out a rifle for some work I told the guy to save the box and wrapping. Why?, that was packed and taped like a mummy. He called me to let me know it arrived safely and said it was the best packed rifle anyone sent him. Frank

[DCM]

Your timing is oddly impeccable Tim.
Thanks for the info.

[zuke]

Buy the case at Walmart, and put the receipt under the foam before you ship. If case arrive's in decent shape the buyer can return the case to Walmart.

[JSnover]

Dang, I have closet full of cases. I'd ship it inside one of them, either as part of the deal or as a loaner; send me back the empty case and we're square.

[MBTcustom]

Again, where are ya gonna get the box? That's the thing, you can buy boxes from online box makers but it's more hassle than just buying from brownells and shipping. This is about money and convenience.
So you're going to pay $30 to the guy to ship you back an empty case?
Why not keep the big picture in mind and let him buy the case for $35 and once the shipment has arrived you're done?
This isn't about weather you have a case or not. This is about getting the gun to it's destination safely and inexpensively, with minimal hassle.

[jonas302]

Good ideas it always amazes me how poorly some people will pack things and then blame the post office or whoever for damage

[MBTcustom]

Buy the case at Walmart, and put the receipt under the foam before you ship. If case arrive's in decent shape the buyer can return the case to Walmart.

You can't just ship a guncase in the mail and not a soft one either. Nothing on the outside of the box can be firearms related. I have to abbreviate Malcolm Ballistic Tool "MBT" on the shipping label because "Ballistic" is not allowed.

How much are you going to pay for a hardcase from walmart? Does it come with a box to ship it in? When it's all said and done, it better be less than $35.74 for it to be better than what I have told you about.

I do quite a bit of business sending guns all over the USA so I buy a lot of these boxes at once. Heck I threw three of them on my last Brownells order just for luck! LOL!
I'm trying to see if I can buy them cheaper from the source if I get 25 at a time or something, but I don't know if they would come with the groovy cardboard box or not.

[JSnover]

As someone mentioned above, your local gun shop probably has a spare box. Tape will cover any firearm-related markings. It really is that simple.

[imashooter2]

No offense, but if our deal was $30 shipping then that's what it is. You do whatever it takes to ship it to me in good condition for $30. If you want to figure an extra $35 for the hard case in the price you want for the rifle, that's fine, but don't be calling me up after the deal is done suggesting I spend more to get what we originally agreed upon.

[JSnover]

No offense, but if our deal was $30 shipping then that's what it is. You do whatever it takes to ship it to me in good condition for $30. If you want to figure an extra $35 for the hard case in the price you want for the rifle, that's fine, but don't be calling me up after the deal is done suggesting I spend more to get what we originally agreed upon.
I thought the same thing. The total shipping cost should include sending my empty case back to me, unless the buyer decides to keep it. Maybe a deposit in case i never see it again. Either way it's a good idea, as long as everybody knows the terms ahead of time.

[imashooter2]

I thought the same thing. The total shipping cost should include sending my empty case back to me, unless the buyer decides to keep it. Maybe a deposit in case i never see it again. Either way it's a good idea, as long as everybody knows the terms ahead of time.

I agree that it is a good packing tip. I just disagree with the premiss in the original post that after the deal is done you contact the buyer to suggest that he pay more. Such a PM to me would not generate a favorable response.

Every seller needs to understand how he will ship his product before he offers it for sale and every seller needs to include that entire cost and condition in the terms of the original agreement.

[tomme boy]

Maybe Tim just worded the post wrong. Myself too. I put it right in the add that it is coming in a hard case and shipping is going to be XXX amount extra. Add in the case amount to the shipping. It can get really expensive to ship a gun. It cost me over $75 once to ship a rifle to someone. I ate a little bit on the sale because this person gave me what I wanted on that rifle. It was a $4000 custom built with all high end parts. Insurance was really high and the scope shipped separate help everything arrive safely.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Great tip Tim !!!

I'll add another tip.
I use old clothes [clean] as filler instead of the typical paper/bubble wrap. I would wrap both ends of the Rifle with enough clothes [then tape 'em on] even if it's going into a hard case...to avoid movement if the package is dropped or thrown.

Also, I like the tennis ball idea for the muzzle, that was mentioned.

[MBTcustom]

I don't understand some of these responses.
What are you saying?

You would feel screwed over if I added $35 to the cost (with your permission) for a case that I would send to you? WOW.
No problem. If you don't want to have it shipped in a professional manner, then the cheap way is to wrap it up in newspaper and duct tape and slap a shipping label on that baby.

I always mention the cost of the case being an extra $35, and I have never been turned down.
It's not like you are getting charged extra for nothing, and the seller doesn't make a dime on the hard case he sends you.

You would actually rather have your gun sent in a cardboard box wrapped in newspaper? Are you crazy? Have you seen what happens to guns that are shipped this way?
Wow, OK. Don't get mad if it shows up with a bent barrel that was totally preventable by packing it in a proper hard case.

Look I don't care how you do it, or why it's worth taking a chance of receiving a damaged rifle so you can save $35. I'm not talking to people like that. I'm talking to people who need a way to pack a rifle properly and inexpensively in order to get to a buyer who would prefer to receive their goods undamaged.
Personally, I would think that the cost of the case would pale in comparison with the cost of re-barreling a bent rifle, but that's just me.

BTW, here's another lifes tip: You can save a lot of money by changing your oil every 10,000 miles.

[imashooter2]

I am saying that if we agree to $30 shipping then it is up to you to package and ship it properly so that I receive it undamaged for $30. Contacting me after the deal is done to say you need an extra $35 to do what you are already obligated to do is pure deep brown BS. I am shocked and appalled that the folks you sell to all think this is fine and dandy.

[JSnover]

I don't understand some of these responses.
What are you saying?

You would actually rather have your gun sent in a cardboard box wrapped in newspaper? Are you crazy? Have you seen what happens to guns that are shipped this way?
Wow, OK. Don't get mad if it shows up with a bent barrel that was totally preventable by packing it in a proper hard case.

I won't speak for them. My thought was to pack the gun in a hard case, and pack that in a cardboard box. That way it doesn't scream "STEAL ME!!"
But that's just me...

[thekidd76]

I am saying that if we agree to $30 shipping then it is up to you to package and ship it properly so that I receive it undamaged for $30. Contacting me after the deal is done to say you need an extra $35 to do what you are already obligated to do is pure deep brown BS. I am shocked and appalled that the folks you sell to all think this is fine and dandy.

I'm pretty sure he said he mentions this up front, not after the fact. Given that information, I don't see any problem with it at all.

[Sweetpea]

Tim,i like your ideas for shipping, but you have to remember...

If you are the seller/shipper, YOU are responsible to ensure it shows up undamaged, and if it is damaged, it is YOUR responsibility to make it right.

Automatically adding the cost up front may be a better path.

[imashooter2]

I'm pretty sure he said he mentions this up front, not after the fact. Given that information, I don't see any problem with it at all.

No, reread the first post. He said:

"First, Bob PM's this thread to Joe about 5 minutes after the deal is done, and asks Joe if he would like the rifle to be shipped in a hard case for an extra $35? "

I think the idea for the case is very good. I think the Brownell's suggestion so that you have a cardboard box to cover the hard case is ingenious. I think that contacting the buyer after the deal is done with the suggestion that they pay $35 more for shipping so their gun doesn't arrive damaged is appalling. Ship the gun so that it arrives undamaged for the agreed upon price.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I too have struggled with this problem.

I am about to send my Ithaca M37 with newly redone wood back to Ithaca for a refurbishment of the metal and mechanical. I wish I would have seen this thread before I did what I did as this is a better way than I came up with.

I had a box made for me at the local "Packaging Store" which is a shipping outfit that I do a lot of business with. It cost $15 and is made from very heavy Cardboard. It measures 35x10x3. He makes all the boxes that my products are shipped in since they don't really fit well into common size premade boxes.

Obviously all the individual parts will be wrapped in bubble wrap so they don't get beat up, and when the gun is returned it will be fully assembled with the barrel removed.

I have to tell you that I may end up at Dick's or Big 5 today in search of a cheap hard case to ship my guns. Another way to go would be to have the Packaging Store make a box to fit one of my existing hard cases that I haven't used in 20 years.

I will definitely use one to ship my A5 to you soon Tim,,,, Good idea!

Randy

[MBTcustom]

I am rubbing my temples very hard here.
I just told you fellers the best way to ship a package in the mail and all you can do is gripe about who is paying for it?
You can be shocked and appalled till the cows come home. One of these days you are going to have to ship a firearm yourself, and no matter who is paying for it, it will be done correctly or it will be done shoddy.
I told you how to do it correctly. You can just go ahead and buy a free case for every single person you sell a rifle to, or you can figure it into the cost, or you can get them to send you the case, or you can do whatever gives you warm fuzzies. I don't care!
However, if you need A WAY, that only cost SOMEONE $35, then here it is.
You're welcome.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tim: Beer is a good thing. Don't let them, or me get to you.

Randy

[MBTcustom]

I see how someone could miss the forest for the trees with my OP.
However, I hate to break it to you, but often that is exactly how deals go down here. Packaging is an afterthought, and a difficult one that often renders people mad and cranky and feeling like they got ripped off.
I have recieved more rifles in the mail than most people here, and they have come in everything from purple bubble wrap (I'm not kidding) to $500 gun cases. I've seen it all, but there is this one place in Florida that sent me one of these boxes with the zip ties in it, and it showed up better than anything else, and fit the box better too. I had to find out where to get that box, and I was really surprised when I found out that you get the case, the box and the zip tie holes for less than $20 + shipping!
I thought some of you might like to know.

[btroj]

Tim, I will gladly pay 35 bucks for shipping like that. Getting a rifle back in good shape is borderline priceless.

[robroy]

I've shipped more than a few long thin plastic fabrications that weighed 70# apiece. Some were shipped singly sometimes by the half ddozen or more. Management always got miffed when I took the time to modify a pallet to hold the things securely and keep them from harm when handled by a common carrier. When we did it quick and dirty like we were told and the tubes got busted well who's fault do you think that was.[smilie=b:

OK back on topic. I think shipping in a hard case or other purpose built packaging is the way to go. I also think that should be budgeted and accounted for in the contract.

[SharpsShooter]

Tim, you state in your original post


First, Bob PM's this thread to Joe about 5 minutes after the deal is done, and asks Joe if he would like the rifle to be shipped in a hard case for an extra $35?

No disputing that. That's what you write.

Now for those of us who read and write English, you just closed the deal, then called back later (five minutes) and asking for additional money to get it shipped. If the deal was done, why wasn't shipping figured there? Don't you understand? You stated that the deal was closed… Then you call to add to it…

Now, I think I know what you meant. And I also think that you intended to word that differently. But what I am sure about is that the way you worded it changed the meaning of it.

So essentially we're not arguing that the tip you offered was bad. We are arguing that the way you wrote it looks like a holdup after the deal was complete. Is that so difficult understand...............

SS

[MBTcustom]

Tim, you state in your original post



No disputing that. That's what you write.

Now for those of us who read and write English, you just closed the deal, then called back later (five minutes) and asking for additional money to get it shipped. If the deal was done, why wasn't shipping figured there? Don't you understand? You stated that the deal was closed… Then you call to add to it…

Now, I think I know what you meant. And I also think that you intended to word that differently. But what I am sure about is that the way you worded it changed the meaning of it.

So essentially we're not arguing that the tip you offered was bad. We are arguing that the way you wrote it looks like a holdup after the deal was complete. Is that so difficult understand...............

SS

You do realize that it never really happened don't you? You do realize that it was a fabricated scenario and the point of the whole thing was to tell you where to get a cheap shipping case and why?
There is no Bob, There is no Joe.
There are however, a lot of people that really have no idea about this valuable time and money saving shipping option.
Since you are obviously incapable of receiving this gift of knowledge, laid at your feet on a silver platter, I will go and amend the OP so it is less offensive to you, and then you might be able to save the link and keep it for future reference.

[waksupi]

I figured out that shippers can and will destroy a gun, no matter how you pack it. I have checked through two rifles that were in the top of the line Kalispell aluminum cases that looked like they were ran over by a truck. Ruined.
I ship a couple dozen firearms minimum a year in cardboard boxes packed in crumpled paper. Never had any damage on any yet, so I'm knocking on wood!

[MBTcustom]

I figured out that shippers can and will destroy a gun, no matter how you pack it. I have checked through two rifles that were in the top of the line Kalispell aluminum cases that looked like they were ran over by a truck. Ruined.
I ship a couple dozen firearms minimum a year in cardboard boxes packed in crumpled paper. Never had any damage on any yet, so I'm knocking on wood!

Well, I would think that many of the firearms you would be shipping wouldn't fit in a case like this anyway right? Them long custom flinters are just hard to get any sort of case for.

[Pb2au]

Mr. Goodsteel,
1) Thanks for the tip. It is indeed a good one.
2) Remember, no good deed will go unpunished.
3) The day comes I send a rifle to you and it gets shipped back to Ohio, I will be happy as a bug to pay 35$ to get it back in one piece.

[SharpsShooter]

You do realize that it never really happened don't you? You do realize that it was a fabricated scenario and the point of the whole thing was to tell you where to get a cheap shipping case and why?
There is no Bob, There is no Joe.
There are however, a lot of people that really have no idea about this valuable time and money saving shipping option.
Since you are obviously incapable of receiving this gift of knowledge, laid at your feet on a silver platter, I will go and amend the OP so it is less offensive to you, and then you might be able to save the link and keep it for future reference.

Well of course we recognize that it was a fabricated scenario utilized to present a handy tip. Certainly it is true that many people don't realize your method of shipping is so easily done. But the rest of us realize that the way you initially wrote your method would encourage the newcomer to close a deal and then five minutes later called the buyer and stick them with additional shipping charges.

So while your tip in essence was demonstrating the good intentions of proper shipping, it was in fact shedding light on a poor method of communicating your idea.

You made it sound "okay" to call after the deal was done to ask for more shipping. That's not something we want to teach a newcomer. The written word is a powerful thing. Advice like that, coming from a moderator, might lead somebody down down the wrong path.

SS

[FLHTC]

My dealer charges me $35 for shipped and insured. He does all the packaging and I get good comments about how it's received. That's all I need.

[waksupi]

Well, I would think that many of the firearms you would be shipping wouldn't fit in a case like this anyway right? Them long custom flinters are just hard to get any sort of case for.

Exactly. Scares me to ship like them that, but so far, so good.

[Bren R.]

Of course, there is also the very real possibility that a well-constructed box will far outperform a purpose-made (for carrying, not shipping) rigid gun case.

100408

Top image: shipping container (3rd party) that my most recent Anschutz purchase came in. Cardboard only, no styrofoam/etc.

Bottom image: the rigid carrying case I'm taking it to the range in tonight.

Not sure if the photos are clear enough. The same amount of weight results in about 3/8" deflection in the shipping carton, and easily three times that (and enough to unlatch the side latch and make the sides of the clamshell "scissor" past each other, further weakening the structure) in the rigid carrying case.

Bad cardboard < Wrong plastic < Good cardboard < Pelican™ case

Bren R.

[MBTcustom]

Of course, there is also the very real possibility that a well-constructed box will far outperform a purpose-made (for carrying, not shipping) rigid gun case.

100408

Top image: shipping container (3rd party) that my most recent Anschutz purchase came in. Cardboard only, no styrofoam/etc.

Bottom image: the rigid carrying case I'm taking it to the range in tonight.

Not sure if the photos are clear enough. The same amount of weight results in about 3/8" deflection in the shipping carton, and easily three times that (and enough to unlatch the side latch and make the sides of the clamshell "scissor" past each other, further weakening the structure) in the rigid carrying case.

Bad cardboard < Wrong plastic < Good cardboard < Pelican™ case

Bren R.

Excellent test!
Now, do it like the instructions I gave in the OP and see how it fairs.

Measure the deflection of the case, and the cardboard, then go and USE THE ZIP TIES in the provided grommets (this cinches the case into it's closed position firmly) slip it back into the box, put your weights on top, and measure the deflection then.

[Bren R.]

Roughly an inch of deflection using the shown zip ties (one through each corner, and one at the handle area, as molded into my case - pulled as tight as I can by hand with a pair of 8" linesman pliers and not trimmed) versus 1/4-3/8" deflection out of the cardboard carton.

100411

Of course - I did not use the same zip ties, gun case, cigar, wording of "being like a Boss"... I do not live at the same elevation above sea level... my point is that a rigid carrying case may not be any better and may actually provide less protection than an actual shipping carton when it comes to shipping a firearm.

Bren R.

[MBTcustom]

Roughly an inch of deflection using the shown zip ties (one through each corner, and one at the handle area, as molded into my case - pulled as tight as I can by hand with a pair of 8" linesman pliers and not trimmed) versus 1/4-3/8" deflection out of the cardboard carton.

100411

Of course - I did not use the same zip ties, gun case, cigar, wording of "being like a Boss"... I do not live at the same elevation above sea level... my point is that a rigid carrying case may not be any better and may actually provide less protection than an actual shipping carton when it comes to shipping a firearm.

Bren R.

Actually, it is imperative that you have your coffee and your large ring maduro cigar (along with the ability to blow a very impressive smoke ring) in order to do it like a true BOSS. You just have no flare otherwise! LOL!
Now when were you planning on slipping it into the cardboard box like I clearly stated in the instructions and measuring the deflection of BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER AS IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE SHIPPED?
Seriously, I get your point, but that's not the only reason for using a plastic shell and tight fitting foam around the firearm being shipped. (Thank you for taking the time to do these tests BTW. I never thought to test the cases in that way, and it does indeed look like you are using a very similar case, if not the exact one I linked in the OP).
You're argument is that it's safer being shipped in the cardboard box only.
I respectfully disagree.
I believe that the primary function of the shipping container is twofold. One function is to provide a measure of protection against bending (not that it really matters because the amount of force necessary to bend a rifle barrel would fold the cardboard box and the case fairly easily).
The other function is to prevent puncture. As I found out today while I was shipping two rifles. I had two of these cases in their boxes, and I was trying to get them out of the truck. I swung one of the boxes and it caught the corner of the truck door, which punctured right through the cardboard exterior, and dinged the case inside (it was actually fairly easy with a box that large that weighs that much).
I'm glad I don't have to take it back to the shop and repair the finish on the stock, and the case saved me.
At least now it's in the hands of US postal service, and I know they will take much better care of it than I did LOL!

Another point that I will mention (this was actually brought up earlier) is that the danger of puncture is not just from the outside of the case but from the inside as well. The barrel can punch right through a cardboard exterior box if that's all that is holding it back if the case is thrown endways into a truck and suddenly stopped against other boxes/shipping containers.
The plastic shell (while still susceptible to a big enough shock) provides much more resistance to this sort of treatment (hence the zip ties).
I thought the tennis ball idea was brilliant as used tennis balls are available very cheap and will spread out the surface area of the end of the barrel so that it cant punch through the case. Very good idea!

I think that at the very least, this method gives at least equal protection to the contents, but is much much more convenient than wrapping and taping, stuffing and filling the box totally with anything you can find. I'm just as cheap as anybody else here, but that's just more hassle than it's worth to me, and not only that, but you only ship one or two rifles and you are flat out of packing materials, and then you discover that peanuts are a total rip off (I save them babies like gold, and only use them when I have to).
The point of the OP, is that this gives you a simple, cheap, civilized way to ship a rifle with more protection than a sheet of cardboard between it, and the loving hands of the truck drivers.
If you don't want to do it this way, I'm not holding your feet to the fire. I was only trying to help, as I have passed this information to several people and it was very well received (pun intended LOL).
Also, every rifle I have recieved in this manner has been in perfect shape no matter how hammered the outside of the box is. In fact, I just got one in half an hour ago, and now I have a way to send it back to my client unmolested.
When a client sends me a rifle packaged in such a way that it barely survives the trip out here, that leaves me in a position where I either send it back in the same way it came, or I have to work something out with him/her for return shipping. This case provides me a way to do so, and so far, nobody has complained about getting a case for so cheap.

[Uncle R.]

I am rubbing my temples very hard here.
I just told you fellers the best way to ship a package in the mail and all you can do is gripe about who is paying for it?



...Now when were you planning on slipping it into the cardboard box like I clearly stated in the instructions and measuring the deflection of BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER AS IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE SHIPPED?
The point of the OP, is that this gives you a simple, cheap, civilized way to ship a rifle with more protection than a sheet of cardboard between it, and the loving hands of the truck drivers.

Also, every rifle I have recieved in this manner has been in perfect shape no matter how hammered the outside of the box is.



You do realize that it never really happened don't you? You do realize that it was a fabricated scenario and the point of the whole thing was to tell you where to get a cheap shipping case and why?
There is no Bob, There is no Joe.


No Bob?
No Joe?
So you admit your OP wasn't true!
Hah!
<
Don't let the sniping get to you Tim. Relax and have a cool one while basking in the gratitude of many readers here. It's a seriously good idea and thank you for posting it. I think paying 35 bucks for a top-quality long gun packaging system is a pretty fair price anyway - and the pure convenience of the method would put it over the top for me if I came to find myself shipping one. After reading your post I recall that my CMP Garand came packaged in a similar manner - a plastic hard case inside a cardboard box. It was missing only the zip ties but it made the trip unharmed just the same.
<
Regards & Thanks!
<
Uncle R.

[gordie]

alot of good tips here...

one source for "heavy-duty" cardboard is empty bicycle boxes... i see them at wallyworld all
the time. find out who their assembler is & he can hold a few, before they hit the baler.

[largom]

ULINE Shipping supplies sells rifle boxes! A box 8X4X52 sells for $2.11 each made with 200# test cardboard. I used a lot of these in the past. Also carpet padding makes good wrapping and stuffing.

Larry

[MBTcustom]

ULINE Shipping supplies sells rifle boxes! A box 8X4X52 sells for $2.11 each made with 200# test cardboard. I used a lot of these in the past. Also carpet padding makes good wrapping and stuffing.

Larry

Thanks for the tip Larry.
I saw the Uline boxes when I first started this venture of mine, but I shied away because they're just one layer of cardboard.
I'm willing to consider it though. The cost is definitely attractive!
So how do you wrap the guns in the carpet padding? Do you cut out a bunch of layers and make a cavity for the gun, or do you just wrap it up like a burrito and stuff it in there?
I did a search on "carpet padding" and here's what Home Depot is selling:
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Flooring-Carpet-Carpet-Tile-Carpet-Pad/N-5yc1vZbois?cm_mmc=SEM|G|VF|D23|Flooring|Carpet&skwcid=AL!3360!3!20812353757!e!!g!!carpet%20paddin g&ef_id=UvWqdQAABdyGn-sY:20140325022115:s
$157 for a 5' X 45' X 1/2". That's a lot of guns shipped for sure, depending on how much of it is used.

[largom]

I wrapped the gun in the padding, then filled any empty spaces with more padding. Some of the boxes were side opening which made it easier to pack tight.

Larry

[atr]

the last time I mailed a long rifle to a buyer I went over to the hardware store and got a length of plastic drain pipe, the flexiable kind, slipped the rifle in and filled the excess with paper packing, then sealed the ends with the plastc snap on caps, wrapped duct tape around the ends so the caps would not accidently come off....labeled it as agriculutural tool and shipped.....no problems.

and thanks for the post....interesting information

[screamingjohnny]

You guys have a lot of great advice about shipping firearms. I really like and use the hard case inside the box myself. I have asked for gun boxes at some of the big sporting goods outlets with good results.Thanks for the info shared here.

[btroj]

I am amazed at how easily people get off track and ignore the moral of the story.

Tim wasn't talking about charging for a case or shipping, he was only giving his opinions on a very inexpensive way of shipping a gun in a manner that protects the gun.

The "story" was strictly to provide a narrative, not to show the ills of failing to discuss shipping costs in a timely fashion.

[MBTcustom]

I am amazed at how easily people get off track and ignore the moral of the story.

Tim wasn't talking about charging for a case or shipping, he was only giving his opinions on a very inexpensive way of shipping a gun in a manner that protects the gun.

The "story" was strictly to provide a narrative, not to show the ills of failing to discuss shipping costs in a timely fashion.

Well that, and to accurately depict the importance of having a game plan for how to ship before you list the item. I don't think lots of people realize how hard it is to ship a rifle safely, and many do not use a box at all.
The point was to say "hey it gets hairy once the deal is struck, and can be expensive and time consuming if you don't have a way lined out ahead of time. I feel there has been a lot of scrambling done here in desperation by people who didn't recon on it being this hard to get a rifle in the mail, and often substandard shipping practices have been used along with a prayer that it gets there in one piece as promised.
I never would have thought that you could buy a rifle case along with a perfectly fitting box for less than $50 and if you are only trying to ship one rifle, I would think it would be an attractive option.
I tell you one thing, the next time I try to put together a humorous, entertaining narrative, I will be mindful of the fact that certain people will be so swept away by the plot that they miss the whole point entirely, and pick it to shreds for personal entertainment.
Oh well, I tried.

[btroj]

It wasn't the narrative that mattered, it was the moral of the story that mattered. Some couldn't see that.

[Sweetpea]

Tim, I have some guns to let go of, and when the time comes to sell them, I may just add on the $35 each, not optional!

I have shipped a number of long guns, and created a package that would have to be driven over to disrupt the contents. I get large sheets of cardboard from work for free, and I have a bit of fiberglass strapping tape. Figure about $6 in tape, and an hour to build it properly...

OR

Pass on the cost of the case, and drop a dime on a few zip ties!

[JesterGrin_1]

I actually found this to be some GREAT Information. As I for one have been there lol. And it sure cost me much more than $35.00 for packaging lol. And not to mention Work and Trouble. Not to mention the shipping cost of my Container lol.

First Container was a 6" piece of PVC with 1 glued on end cap and the other a threaded end for a threaded cap and screwed on. Now the Rifle lol. I wrapped it well with news paper and clear plastic to there were no gaps. Then I squirted some Water Base insulation foam in the bottom and let it expand then placed the rifle into the Tube and center then filled it with the Spray in Foam insulation. When it cured I cut off the excess sticking out of the Tube to enable me to screw the cap on and then installed the Screws. The plan was that if I coated the inside of the tube with some Oil the Foam would not attach to it and the foam and rifle would slide out of the tube and then just remove the foam and plastic from the rifle. Well as the person that received the Rifle said when I asked if it made it ok was. Well it could have been sent by plane and the plane caught fire and crashed into a mountain then blew up and the rifle could go end over end down mount Everest and it would have been fine lol. He was happy it was in Beautiful shape but not happy about the time it took him to find out lol.

The second Rifle was the 35 Whelen AI I sent off for work. I sent the action and stock in two separate Boxes Taped together with more bubble wrap and cardboard and tape than one can imagine lol. But it made it there fine. But still not cheap lol.

This simple thing that GoodSteel talks about would have saved me Time,Money and aggravation.

And I did receive a Rifle Barrel from E.R.Shaw and it was BENT lol. Yes they replaced it but a BENT Magnum Contour Barrel. They worked at that lol.





OK fellers admit it, we are some of the most gun tradinest folks on the internet. We swap guns like women swap handbags.
SO
Let's say Bob decides to sell 'ol Betsey, and use the money to buy the gun that Larry has for sale in swappin and sellin.
Bob posts up Ol Betsy and Joe falls in love with it cause it will match his hunting boots perfectly etc etc and proudly exclaims in bold blue text those magical words: "I'll Take IT!!!!!"
Happy day! Moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney!!!!!
Bob knows that the gun has to ship to a licensed FFL and he guesses that it's going to cost about $30 from the eagle truck drivin folks because that's what the average gunbroker seller lists for shipping. Brilliant I say!

Now, all he needs is a box!

I say, all he needs is a box.

Bob has a devil of a time finding a box. Bob receives the MO in the mail, but he's still trying to find a dam box!
Sends a PM to Joe explaining his troubles and Joe decides to be patient while wondering if he's getting screwed.
Finally in desperation, Bob either
A. cuts down a huge boxand hashes something together that looks like hammered hell.
Or B. goes to wally world and drops $75 on a gun case and then begs the associates to find him a box, whereupon striking out, he goes home and slips it lovingly into the the hammered hell box and makes up the difference with packing tape.
Bob's mad because he didn't end up with as much money as he thought he would and Joe is mad because the rifle shows up looking like USPS drug it behind the truck with a 30' tether cord and got happy with the off road deliveries.

Sound familiar?

Want to know a better way?

Joe PM's this thread to Bob about 5 minutes after the deal is done, and asks Bob if he would purchase said box and ship it in this way once it arrives, and offers to pay an extra $35 to make it happen.
Bob agrees wholeheartedly. What the heck, it's only $35 right? and after all, Joe was going to be paying for it. Why not?

So, Bob goes to www.Brownells.com and immediately orders this case from them:
100225
http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/gun-storage/gun-cases/single-rifle-case-prod41076.aspx
What with shipping it ends up being exactly $35.74 delivered.

When the box arrives with the case in it, open it up and remove the case.
Slip the rifle inside and don't forget to sip your coffee before and after shutting the case and snapping the plastic buckles shut (pinky in the air mind you).
Run zipties through all the the grommets around the perimeter (be sure to play some classical music while doing this. It heightens the experience.)
Slip it back into the box it was shipped to you in (mind you don't get a paper cut. If you where white gloves during this operation, it reduces the likelihood of this happening)
Tear even lengths of tape from a roll and close the end of the box.
Paste your shipping information over Brownells shipping information.
Take a leisurely drive to the Post Office or UPS or FedEX and hand it over to them and rest assured that it will reach it's destination perfectly intact and safe.
I have shipped everything from a 22 crickett to a bench rifle using this system and it works perfectly.
I do believe you could drag the rifle to it's state of destination by a logging chain and it would probably make it as long as it doesn't have to go through Missouri or Oklahoma LOL!

Now light your darn cigar and blow a smoke ring cause you just did it like a BOSS!

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Some people would complain and argue if they were being hung with a new rope. Sometimes throwing out good ideas is like casting pearls before swine. Pigs don't care about pretty, they wanna eat.

[gmsharps]

Well that, and to accurately depict the importance of having a game plan for how to ship before you list the item. I don't think lots of people realize how hard it is to ship a rifle safely, and many do not use a box at all.
The point was to say "hey it gets hairy once the deal is struck, and can be expensive and time consuming if you don't have a way lined out ahead of time. I feel there has been a lot of scrambling done here in desperation by people who didn't recon on it being this hard to get a rifle in the mail, and often substandard shipping practices have been used along with a prayer that it gets there in one piece as promised.
I never would have thought that you could buy a rifle case along with a perfectly fitting box for less than $50 and if you are only trying to ship one rifle, I would think it would be an attractive option.
I tell you one thing, the next time I try to put together a humorous, entertaining narrative, I will be mindful of the fact that certain people will be so swept away by the plot that they miss the whole point entirely, and pick it to shreds for personal entertainment.
Oh well, I tried.

I have been shipping things most of my adult life. I have seen the way people think a package will arrive safely and get mad when it doesn't. They will use duct tape on a cardboard box that is already falling off when they go to the post office and think it's fine. In my years in the military I have shipped my long guns to and from overseas locations and have never had an issue. I used hard cases with extra packing. When I am ordering a custom gun I bring up the subject of shipping and will pay extra to get the better protection or I have provided my own and ship it to them. My wife sometimes thinks I am over doing it when we are moving or hauling stuff from place to place but I have had minimul damage or anything I had transported or shipped.
Tim I believe you have explained very well the procedures and consequences of shipping and hope those that can benefit from it will.

gmsharps

[NavyVet1959]

Last time I had to ship a rifle, I used a piece of large diameter PVC pipe, cut a wooden plug for each end out of a piece of 2x8, and then used screws through the walls of the pipe to attach the plugs to the pipe. The rifle itself was wrapped in a LOT of crumpled up newspaper, bubble wrap, and packing tape. After putting one end on, I stood the container up on that end and placed a lot of crumpled up newspaper in the bottom. After putt the rifle in the tube, I put packed a lot more crumpled up newspaper around it and then even more on top before I put the top plug in. I taped the plugs to the PVC pipe so that it would be rather waterproof. I then shook it and dropped it to see if I could get any rattle. Nothing... So, off it went to UPS after wrapping it in cardboard. Probably a bit overkill.

[Del-Ray]

Keep in mind rifles can break in ANY container.

We ship most rifles out in cardboard uline boxes. Stuffed with whatever paper acusport, or CSI sends us our merch with.

We also insure all rifles sent for whatever the winning bid was. The buyer may not want it. But if it breaks, you're gonna end up paying. Might as well buy the insurance.

We shipped a beautiful rifle with horn inlay to a mr LP, that may or may not own a big firearms supply store here in the states.... It was aledged he was intending to do a peice for his web site on restoring an old shootzen rifle....

Had that puppy wrapped, bubbled, jammed with paper in every area that foam and rifle didn't occupy, and in a hard side case.

When it got to him UPS had turned it into a long barreled carbine.

We had insured it. He got his money back.

The way they sort packages means if the box comes off the line wrong, the next box can hit it plumb in the center and flex it. Then the line jams and they do what it takes to clear it.

Remember. Fragile is Italian for major award. So they might ignore that if its plastered on every side of the box.

[TXGunNut]

I shipped a barrelled action to JES in a hard takedown rifle case packed inside a cardboard shipping box. Probably cost a bit more but the peace of mind was worth it. The short length probably made it even less recognizeable as a firearm.

[Stonecrusher]

Thanks for the tip Goodsteel. Just used it to ship a GunBroker sale. Definitely the easiest way I have found yet. No looking for anything. I just added a layer of bubble wrap under each foam piece to give a little more compression and protection as well as some heavy cardboard at ends and side. I tie wrapped the case and taped the box back up with reinforced packing tape. It worked beautifully!

It is so good I think it would be worth losing a few bucks on the sale to cover part of the extra shipping cost. The time saved more than makes up for it.

[Frank46]

I had an origional unaltered machine gun barrel for the UK 59 MG. It was complete with front sight flash hider and carry handle and part of the gas system. Because of the weight of the barrel and the carry handle thought long and hard about packaging. Since I had some real heavy cardboard and bubble wrap this is what I did. Wrapped and taped the bbl in bubble wrap used duct tape, made up a rectangular double thickness of cardboard taped the bubble wrapped barrel to it and then sandwhiched it with another two pieces of cardboard. Then mummy wrapped the whole thing in duct tape. Then it went into the box it was to be shipped in. That box had so much strapping tape you could have used a machete to open it. Guy sent an email, took him a half hour just to cut the bbl out of the packaging. All I wanted was to make sure he got it in one piece. Heard too many horror stories about firearms getting trashed during shipment. Frank

[doc1876]

duh! I don't know where my brain was when I shipped that Sharps action to you, I have three or four here! And the bad part is that is exactly what I did in January when I had to ship a rifle and a shot gun to my son in Germany, however I used a Plano box, as It was going to travel quite a ways, but yes the original box made it all better...........I get home in a couple of days, and I will send you a box so when ever you are done, you can ship it back.

[MBTcustom]

This needs a bump

[pietro]

.


Alternatively, a seller can just press the "EASY" button.............. Something I've been doing for mailing long guns successfully over 20 years, w/o any gun damage or other issues.

All USPO's have, or can obtain for the customer (you), a FREE 37" long USPS Priority Mail delta-shaped (when unfolded) mailing tube: https://store.usps.com/store/browse/uspsProductDetailMultiSkuDropDown.jsp?productId=P_ O_1098M&categoryId=priority-mail

Here's a pic of the unfolded tubes, normally stored at a USPO folded "flat":

https://www.usps.com/stamp-collecting/assets/images/aO-1098M-01-main-278x111.jpg


I'm sure many sellers have bubble wrap ($3 @ WallyWorld) and/or foam peanuts, from receiving "stuff" we order from wherever (Midway, Brownell's,etc) that can be used as cushioning/filler.

I break the long gun down (barreled action/stock, barrel/receiver & stock, etc) into two separate parts, which get bubble-wrapped separately, and eventually get slid into the formed delta tube. (I mail scopes separately, directly to the buyer - not to the transferring FFL)

I reinforce the inside of both ends of the tube via cutting a thin wooden (plywood, paneling, solid scrap wood, etc) into a triangle the same size as the mailing tube cross-section.

I usually insert the barreled action first, thinnest end toward the opening (so the thin end of the wrapped stock/buttstock can pass by the barrel section), drizzling in foam peanuts as req'd so that the bubble-wrapped sections won't move during transit (shake the parcel to check).

I apply the (ALSO FREE) USPS Priority Mail label and an USPS Insurance form to the appropriate spot on the delta tube, then cover the address label with clear tape. (I also use only initials for the addressee - like PG Inc instead of "Paul's Guns")

USPS mailing cost (NOT FREE), with insurance, will vary depending upon the parcel's weight, and destination - usually around $30-$35 for the lower 48 states.

As whenever mailing a parcel, there is NO legal obligation to disclose the parcel's contents to a Postal Clerk, beyond truthfully answering the USPS questions each clerk is req'd to ask every USPS customer, regarding the parcel's mailability ( are the contents explosive, flammable, liquid, toxic, fragile, etc ? ).

I always use a Sharpie to letter "FRAGILE" on each flat of the delta tube.


For handguns, I use an appropriately-sized USPS Flat Rate Box ($8-$17 postage), with the handgun packedbubble-wrapped inside, for my FFL to mail to the buyer's FFL (non-FFL's cannot legally mail handguns).


.

[gnoahhh]

Tim, thanks again for starting this thread. I would much rather fight my way through a ton of packaging, or gladly pay extra for shipping in a hard case, than bear the pain of a damaged gun. I recently shipped a minty HiWall for which I removed the stock and packed it separately to make a shorter package (less leverage for the sorting machine to act on). Since I didn't have a spare hardcase I made my own out of 1/4" marine plywood, reinforced inside, glued/screwed together, and stuffed with foam, peanuts, and wadded newspaper. It made for an ungodly heavy package but it arrived in one piece even with evidence of what looked like a forklift tire mark on it. The buyer said it took him quite a while to excavate the gun from its surroundings!

I received a Lovell Krag single shot heavy barreled rifle (.22 Maximum Lovell, built by Hervey Lovell himself) from a guy in Colorado who merely dropped it in an empty cardboard box, no buffering at all. Needless to say it arrived with the wrist broken in two. The guy then died a week or two later from cancer so that ended that as far as renumeration was concerned. (Luckily I was able to epoxy everything back together and the break isn't visible from 2 feet away, but still...)

[alamogunr]

I've received long guns both ways: hard case in a corrugated box and wrapped well and double boxed.

Had to return a milsurp to the dealer for some work and returned in the same box I received it in. Wrapped w/bubble wrap and balance of box stuffed w/newspaper.

Once I had to have a box so went to LGS. They gave me one since I was a customer.

I like goodsteel's solution, also the tennis ball on end of barrel. If I did a lot of trading and selling, I would keep materials on hand.

[MBTcustom]

I keep the Browells cases in stock, and I have also adopted the tennis ball trick. I also run tape around the box about ten times over the buckles, and apply liberal amounts of tape over the ends of the box once the case is slid back inside.

One point that I cannot reinforce enough is that if you buy a firearm from someone on this forum or anywhere else, do yourself a favor and bring this thread to their attention and offer to send an extra $35 for the case!!!
I was recently contacted by a member who had a very bad experience, and from the way it went down, it was obvious that this thread had not been read by anyone concerned. If a firearm gets damaged in shipment, and it was due to sub standard shipping practices, nobody wins, and everybody loses except the carrier who could care less.
When this happens, I guarantee that everyone concerned wishes they could go back in time and do it right, because $30 and half a roll of tape is cheap prevention, and both the buyer and the seller would be glad to pay for it at this point if only they could.

I wish I had been more serious when I started this thread, because I meant it to be taken to heart and applied. This solution is too cheap and effective not to be utilized, and if it comes to a lawsuit against FedEx, UPS or USPS, they are going to have a real hard time claiming that the damage was due to shoddy packaging if it was done as I have outlined.

I'm telling you: Read this. Remember it. Apply it.
It is meant to protect your interests, whether you are the buyer or the seller.
I don't get a dime for giving good advice.

[Beagle333]

After reading this last year, I have started doing this too. Unless it's an old mauser or beater, I'll get on Brownells or Amazon and drop ship the seller a new case to mail my new gun in. Thanks for the post!! [smilie=s: