Looking for data for 500 grain cast in a Marlin 1895SS

[John in WYO]

Evening gents.

I have an almost full box of Oregon Trail 500 grain .459" bevel-base flat-points that I'd like to load in my 1975 vintage 1895SS.

I'm thinking 1500-1600 FPS or so. I have Varget, IMR 4064, W748 and H4895 on hand. I haven't been able to locate any data for a bullet this heavy in the Marlin.

I'm thinking about taking this rifle to AK in May for a spring black bear hunt.

If I need to load 405 or 350 jacketed, I can do that; but I'm kind of thinking I'd like to use the 500 cast instead. One can never be sure what's going to show up.

I'd appreciate any direction from someone who already been down this road.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

John

[bigted]

John ... man after my own heart ... I also lusted after a 500 grain blaster for my hunting needs in the brush up here so I purchased the RCBS 45-500 FN GC boolit mold and couldn't wait to get it in action in my Marlin rifle.

finally got it and cast around 100 boolits ... sized em and installed the gc on em and lubed em all at the same time ... loaded the buggers ahead of some RL-7 and headed for the range. [I also thought I wanted them to run around 1600 to 1700 FPS and so I loaded em thusely.

wound up pulling all but 5 of the stupid things ... that's after I got my finger to stop bleeding and the mouse on my check to get so it wernt so tender. great accuracy I think ... a hunting guide pard of mine wanted a few so I loaded some for him the same way for BIG bear medicine and he never asked for any more ... instead he opted for the 400's runnin around 1500 FPS. these are stiff too but wont maim and destroy the shooter like them 500's will in a good ol light lever used for packin and huntin.

by the way ... he brought me back a 400 grain boolit to show me that 1 shot from it was all that was needed to finish a brown bear his client screwed the pooch on. said his heart nearly stopped when he was in the thick stuff with a wounded brownie but that this 400 gave the smackdown in spades.

short storie long here ... I look forward to your report on the loads and shooting with your 500 grain boolits in your Marlin ... wont hurt the rifle ... BUT ... [smilie=s:

[w30wcf]

John,
Like bigted, I have tried 500 gr. cast bullets in the .45-70. At 1600 f.p.s. they do recoil! I could not find a pic of your bullet but if it doesn't have a crimp groove that will provide a cartridge with the proper length to feed through the magazine, I would not recommend using it when your life might depend on a 2nd or 3rd shot. The high recoil could pull a bullet out of the case slightly in the mag and you would have a jammed rifle on your hands.

A 400 gr bullet will do pretty much anything you need the .45-70 to do. I once shot a 300 lb boar with my .45-70 pushing a 20/1 lead tin g.c. bullet at 1,900 f.p.s. The boar was quartering away from me and the bullet entered the right front shoulder, transversed about 3 feet of hog...... and exited the left rear hip. Plenty of penetration.......

w30wcf

[W.R.Buchanan]

RCBS makes a real nice mould .45-500FNGC which is essentially a longer version of .45-300 and .45-405 FNGC. It has the crimp groove in the right place to feed in your gun since it is in the same place relative to the nose of the boolit as the other smaller boolits. You might get 1400-1600fps out of a 500 gr load simply because the boolit takes up so much space in the case there isn't room for enough powder to go faster.

I will never pull the trigger on one of these at any speed.

Now if are 25 years old and are a solid and well built 350 lb., 6'3" guy who is a Roughneck in the Oil Fields and wrestles Grizzly Bears for fun, (Ally Oop comes to mind) then I'd say go for t.

The recoil from that round will be intolerable in a 6.5lb. gun. It would be intolerable in a Winchester 1886 that weighed 11-12 lbs. The idea of a second shot brings tears to my eyes.

Go shoot a 12 ga shotgun with 2 3/4" or 3" Magnum Slugs at 1600 fps and then double the recoil. That's what you are asking for. :holysheep

Also just as a reference, a 250gr SWC boolit from a .44 Special, loaded to 900fps from a 5" revolver, will go clean thru an elk in any direction.

The resulting question would be, "How far into the dirt on the back side of your target do you want the boolit to go?"

If you still want to do this, then Lyman 49 has data. I suggest starting at the low end and working up until you can't stand it any more.

Randy

Addition: I was curious and checked Lyman 49 and there is indeed data for 500 gr boolits, and even the starting loads are well above what I would shoot, ranging from 1400-1600 fps.

I guess I'm kind of a wuss?

[Tatume]

Look no farther than your friendly Hodgdon web site:

http://www.hodgdon.com/

Data for 485 grain cast will suffice for your needs. Work up, don't start at or near max.

[waco]

I have the RCBS 45-500
I have loaded them with imr4350
I don't recall the load off the top of my head.
You can't put too much in the case.
It clocked around 1450fps if memory serves.
It was not that bad out of my stock marlin 1895

[John in WYO]

W.R., Do I know you? You described me right down to bear wrestling part!!

You guys are very descriptive. You gave me a big grin. The Oregon Trail boolits have a crimp groove set for lever guns and feed pretty smooth.
Okay, so maybe I should tone the load down a bit to the 1300-1400 range OR switch to a 400 grainer.
I've run 400 grain Speer softpoints to 1900fps out of my Mannlicher-style stocked Siamese Mauser. Not for the faint-of-heart!
I'm headed to meet a buddy in Wasilla, then down to the Homer area for a boat-based hunt. I understand we'll glass a lot and do some climbing to catch bears sunning/grazing on the hillsides or maybe along the coastline. Still waffling on which rifle to take, but will definitely pack my Linebaugh Custom Sixguns .500.

[Tatume]

Okay, so maybe I should tone the load down a bit to the 1300-1400 range OR switch to a 400 grainer.

The data I directed you to run from 1300 to 1400 fps with powders you said you have on hand. These data are also Trapdoor data that will break neither your gun nor most shooters.

[John in WYO]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q58/JohninWYO/9e06ded9-93e3-4b8f-817d-f623588b49ca_zps4c8cb659.jpg (http://s133.photobucket.com/user/JohninWYO/media/9e06ded9-93e3-4b8f-817d-f623588b49ca_zps4c8cb659.jpg.html)

Here is the Oregon Trail boolit compared to a Speer 400 grain.


Thanks Tatume. I'll investigate your lead.

[monge]

I have found the RD 350gr at 1800fps sized to.460 to be very accurate to 150yards . Recoil is modest and seams to have plenty of stopping power . Shot from my G-gun they shatter bone at 100yards and keep going!

[Tatume]

Hi John,

If it were me, I would re-lube those bullets. An application of Lee Liquid Alox really helps with "crayon" factory lubes. In the alternative, and I often do this, the factory lube can be removed with a fingernail (it usually flakes off). Then the bullet can be run through a lubri-sizer and good lube applied (I prefer LBT Blue Soft).

Take care, Tom

[dubber123]

Although not a powder you listed, I shoot a 520 gr. boolit loaded to 2.555" OAL with 35 grains of H4198 for about 1,450 fps. from my 1895 Cowboy.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/dubber123/uncle004.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/dubber123/media/uncle004.jpg.html)

[W.R.Buchanan]

John: the original load for the .45-70 which was known as the .45-70-500 was for the Springfield Trapdoor rifle. It was 68-70 gr of BP, with a 500 gr lead boolit and ran around 1300 fps. It has killed everything on earth.

However that same load when shot in the Trapdoor Cavalry Carbine had excessive recoil due to the lighter weight of the gun, and a revised load was developed with about 55 gr of BP and a 405 gr boolit. It, once again, has killed everything on earth.

Those jacketed 400 gr bullets you showed above will do anything you want, as would 400ish gr cast boolits. I could probably suffer thru 2-3 of those at 1600 fps. You really need to view this situation from the perspective of,,, Can you get off 3 aimed shots in about 3-4 seconds? If so, then it really doesn't matter which bullets you use because anything from a .45-70 is going to be substantial as long as it connects with the target.

For comparison,,, My 1895 Cowboy Rifle with a 26" bbl. weighs 7lb 2 oz. I am drilling out the stock to accommodate 2 more lbs. of lead so the gun is more pleasant to shoot heavier loads in. I need to be able to shoot 40+ shots in one day of Cowboy Silhouette, and believe me recoil is a cumulative thing and has a significant negative effect on your shooting.

My 1894 Cowboy in .44 Magnum with a 24" bbl. weighs 7 lbs 8 oz, (go figure) but is only launching 250-310 gr boolits so it's weight is a little more in line with what it needs to be. The recoil on that gun is very tolerable with lighter boolits, but if you load the 310's up to where they actually have some accuracy 1700-1900 fps they will get your attention since you are essentially duplicating 300 gr .45-70 loads.

Randy

[bigted]

John ... this area you are going to grows some of the largest bears in the world. I would encourage you to purchase/cast some 350 or 400 solid nose flat point boolits and load em up to your wanted/needed 1600+ feet per second and do some practicing with these at various ranges inside 150 yards.

I would abandon the 500's as there is no need for em to do the job you want them to do. also those boolits need to be softer ... in the 20 to 1 lead/tin mix for the bone busting and expansion you will want.

in your practice ... I would run till you are gasping for breath and stop and shoot at 20 to 50 yards immediately to replicate the adrenaline that will be present when and if you encounter one of these HUGE bears. remember that some of these bruins will stand up to 7 feet tall and taller on their back legs AND they will run from 600 to 1300 pounds AND be very antagonistic as YOU are in THEIR yard and they will not shrug the opportunity to remind you of this ... to say nothing of the possibility of them laying up on a kill and protecting it from all comers ... or the sow that WILL lay down her life to protect her cub/cubs from ANY perceived threat.

all in all I recommend that you use a proven load/boolit to take into this pristine wilderness and rest on the premise that you are well protected in the event you can actually have time for defense when/if you run afoul of an old ursulas horribilous in the natural state of being peeved all the time ... oh yea and HUNGRY most of the time.

I highly recommend this hunt ... the knowledge of knowing you are NOT the highest on the food chain ... even tho we use modern fire power. this is/will be the most exhilarating hunt of your life ... even if you do not run across the old grumpy bears ... as the possibility is there and will weigh on your mind as you witness the best available scenery and outdoor experience of a life time. I have lived here for 15 years and EVERY time I go out ... this is the over riding under thought ... that enjoys a spot in my mind at every turn ... I have never had a unpleasant experience with a bear but ... the possibility is always there and I love it. the knowledge that I run second or third on the food chain is just the adrenaline that inspires me to spend time in the brush. I am careful and recommend being careful to you so you will not be a number on the hit list of statistic's here in GODS country.

folks get mauled every year in this most intriguing country.

enjoy.

[John in WYO]

bigted,

You're making me look for a belt-fed .500 Nitro Express!
Where do I post the notice to Ursula (you must have been thinking of Ms Andress, not ol' Ursus, LOL) that I'm just looking for his smaller cousin and would like the Horribilus family to go about their day unmolested?
I appreciate all the replies. You guys are great.

John

[bigted]

naaa ... just be mindful of your surroundings and watch everything when and if you are in the thick stuff. we all been livin with these bears for a very long time and the mauling's are percentage wise ... very small. however it pays huge dividends to be prepared and to leave nothing to chance ... just so your experience is a grand one and not end in disaster.

this IS the frontier that everybody has read about. still not many folks livin here and tons of real estate un-explored.

the natives here love the 30-30 winchester and the like and they seem to do fine ... so there is sumptin to say about being educated as to the manner of moving about in the brush.

[woodbutcher]

:twisted:Hi John.Had one of those Siamese Mausers in 45-70 also.Kicked my butt for ever getting rid of it.
However,I was out to the local range one day and got some comments(a bunch actually)about that ancient ctg.Had it loaded to appx 1700 fps with some full patch 500 grn slugs.There was an old car setup for target practice for the local LEOs.
Put one of those bad boys clean through the passenger side fender and completely through the engine block and out the other side.NO more comments about "ancient"cartridges.hehehe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[bigted]

:twisted:Hi John.Had one of those Siamese Mausers in 45-70 also.Kicked my butt for ever getting rid of it.
However,I was out to the local range one day and got some comments(a bunch actually)about that ancient ctg.Had it loaded to appx 1700 fps with some full patch 500 grn slugs.There was an old car setup for target practice for the local LEOs.
Put one of those bad boys clean through the passenger side fender and completely through the engine block and out the other side.NO more comments about "ancient"cartridges.hehehe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

now THAT is funny. I can just imagine their consternation with an old indian fighter doing what they want/need for their performance.

[jonp]

:twisted:Hi John.Had one of those Siamese Mausers in 45-70 also.Kicked my butt for ever getting rid of it.
However,I was out to the local range one day and got some comments(a bunch actually)about that ancient ctg.Had it loaded to appx 1700 fps with some full patch 500 grn slugs.There was an old car setup for target practice for the local LEOs.
Put one of those bad boys clean through the passenger side fender and completely through the engine block and out the other side.NO more comments about "ancient"cartridges.hehehe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
What? Do you mean that the black plastic taciticool weapons wouldn't do that?

[Just Duke]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232532-460-500Gr-FN-(RCBS-82054)

This is a clone of the RCBS #82054 45-500-FN
We will be running this like a inventory run

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/NOE_Bullet_Moulds_460_530Gr_FN_RCBS.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/NOE_Bullet_Moulds_460_530Gr_FN_RCBS_529_gr_Sketch. jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i80/swedenelson/NOE_Bullet_Moulds_460_530Gr_FN_HP_RCBS_511_gr_Sket ch.jpg

We will be running 2 cavity, 4 cavity, 5 cavity, RG2 and RG4 Aluminum
GC or PB, but only one or the other per mould (no mixing GC and PB)
We offer Blank RG pins on our website for you that like to make your own.
Top punch, wrenches and sprue lube are extras now if you want them

Prices will be our standard website prices ( www.noebulletmoulds.com )
2 cavity $79.00
4 cavity $92.00
5 cavity $99.00
RG2 cavity $103.00
RG4 cavity $133.00
Lyman/RCBS style Top Punch $5.00
Saeco style Top Punch $7.50
Mould Wrenches / Sprue Lube $2.50
RG2 blank pin set $4.50
RG4 blank pin set $9.00

Will run this as soon as we get 15 signed up and we get the tooling in.
Will have them listed on our website as a inventory item as soon as we have them ran
So you can use Pay-Pal, Credit Card or Check / Money order
Post a "I want" and receive a 5% discount off the website
We will PM a discount code for you to use at check out

If you have question - Visit our website or PM me

Thanks
Swede Nelson




Evening gents.

I have an almost full box of Oregon Trail 500 grain .459" bevel-base flat-points that I'd like to load in my 1975 vintage 1895SS.

I'm thinking 1500-1600 FPS or so. I have Varget, IMR 4064, W748 and H4895 on hand. I haven't been able to locate any data for a bullet this heavy in the Marlin.

I'm thinking about taking this rifle to AK in May for a spring black bear hunt.

If I need to load 405 or 350 jacketed, I can do that; but I'm kind of thinking I'd like to use the 500 cast instead. One can never be sure what's going to show up.

I'd appreciate any direction from someone who already been down this road.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

John

[M-Tecs]

I have a SS Marlin Guide Gun in 45/70 that shoots very very well. I was out at the range when some of the taciticool guys showed up. Some had some very high end stuff but none of them shot very well. After some good natured ribbing we started shooting. We shot 100, 200 & 300 yards. I have the Guide Gun scoped with a Leupold 2.5 x 8 with mil dots and I have yardages for 200 & 300. When the smoked cleared none of the taciticool guys had anything to smile about.

[MT Chambers]

For heavy 45/70 loads I think I would ditch the BB, lotsa loads in Lyman CB manual and #49, I use heavy loads with either RL-7 or AA2015, my fav.

[Gunlaker]

At one time RCBS published data for their 500gr bullet in a Marlin 1895. They ran it to 1533fps in a 22" barreled Marlin with 44gr of IMR-3031. I've owned the mould for a number of years but haven't go around to using it yet.

Ted, I know what you mean about the big bears. We've got grizzly here, and when you see a truly big one you won't feel completely safe no matter what rifle you are packing :-). When I'm out on foot I they are constantly on my mind. Even when driving the back country in my Jeep I bring a .45-70 just in case of vehicle trouble and having to walk out. I've never had a bad experience wih them, and I hope I never do :-). They are fine animals to see though.

Chris.

[pls1911]

As have others, I laughed my way all through this thread... yes, I laugh at your experiences only because they reflect my own so closely.


Every one belives "Heck yes I want a full house 500 grain load in this Ruger/Sharps/Rolling Block/Marlin'95..... why have it if you're not gonna USE it!!!''' Yeah we all wanted it..once... maybe twice, but not more than a few minutes.

I loaded 10 of the 500 grain rounds...
I shot one in a then new Ruger #1. (Expletives deleted)...No mas por Pablo!!
Buddy Bubba says " WHAT A WUSS!!! Gimme them things, They'll be fine in my little compact lightweight synthetic stock H&R Topper"
Buddy Bubba settles in his strongest prone position......BULUHWHAAAAAM!!!!....
Deafened by the roar, silence reigns as embers from the torched prairie grass are extingiushed by the settling dust cloud.
Bubba Buddy's prostrate silhouette emerges from the storm, there's no movement.
Slowly roused and favoring a disabled limb, he declined to fire the rest, but bravely insisted on savineng the others for later.
Of course Bubba Buddy tough guy could not to be declared a Wuss; he volunteered to sight in the Thompson Contender ..
After all "It only has a 400 grain bullet and a muzzle break..."
The first shot was just off the bullseye at 50 yards, and only made his previously disfigured trigger finger turn blue. The second and third shots touched the first, and mangled and bloodied index, second and third fingers.
An amazing shooting accomplishment considering the crossed eyes awash in tears and trembling hands....
"SEE?? says Bubba Buddy... that ain't too bad"
15 years later he's learned to shoot pretty well, with a crippled hand.

In conclusion, heed the admonitions of the gentlemen above, and you'll have years of enjoyment, without pain or a younger man's bravado.
Tailored to your quarry, the 45-70 with 300-400 grain bullets lumbering along at 1300-1600 fps will get the job done anywhere on this continent.

[Just Duke]

As have others, I laughed my way all through this thread... yes, I laugh at your experiences only because they reflect my own so closely.


Every one belives "Heck yes I want a full house 500 grain load in this Ruger/Sharps/Rolling Block/Marlin'95..... why have it if you're not gonna USE it!!!''' Yeah we all wanted it..once... maybe twice, but not more than a few minutes.

I loaded 10 of the 500 grain rounds...
I shot one in a then new Ruger #1. (Expletives deleted)...No mas por Pablo!!
Buddy Bubba says " WHAT A WUSS!!! Gimme them things, They'll be fine in my little compact lightweight synthetic stock H&R Topper"
Buddy Bubba settles in his strongest prone position......BULUHWHAAAAAM!!!!....
Deafened by the roar, silence reigns as embers from the torched prairie grass are extingiushed by the settling dust cloud.
Bubba Buddy's prostrate silhouette emerges from the storm, there's no movement.
Slowly roused and favoring a disabled limb, he declined to fire the rest, but bravely insisted on savineng the others for later.
Of course Bubba Buddy tough guy could not to be declared a Wuss; he volunteered to sight in the Thompson Contender ..
After all "It only has a 400 grain bullet and a muzzle break..."
The first shot was just off the bullseye at 50 yards, and only made his previously disfigured trigger finger turn blue. The second and third shots touched the first, and mangled and bloodied index, second and third fingers.
An amazing shooting accomplishment considering the crossed eyes awash in tears and trembling hands....
"SEE?? says Bubba Buddy... that ain't too bad"
15 years later he's learned to shoot pretty well, with a crippled hand.

In conclusion, heed the admonitions of the gentlemen above, and you'll have years of enjoyment, without pain or a younger man's bravado.
Tailored to your quarry, the 45-70 with 300-400 grain bullets lumbering along at 1300-1600 fps will get the job done anywhere on this continent.

Respectfully I don't see the jest of the thread.
You can comfortably shoot 500's as I have with 28 to 32 grains of Hogdgen 4198.

[M-Tecs]

In conclusion, heed the admonitions of the gentlemen above, and you'll have years of enjoyment, without pain or a younger man's bravado.
Tailored to your quarry, the 45-70 with 300-400 grain bullets lumbering along at 1300-1600 fps will get the job done anywhere on this continent.

Won’t ever come close to getting the job done for the BPCR shooter past 600 yds. Bullets in the 535 to 575 seem to be the most common for 600 to 1000. Some are playing with plus 600 grain bullets but 575 is as heavy as I have personally shot.

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2:Hi Jonp.This occured LONG before the "plastic fantastic"invasion.About 1965 or so.The slugs were IIRC Hensley&Gibbs.The car was an old 56 Chevy with an inline 6.
Heard from my Grand Father how the US Cavalry would shoot clear through an Indian pony,and drop the Indian hanging off the far side.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[pls1911]

I respectfully concede the point that 500 grain + bullets have their uses, and that they can be shot in a manner which is less than abusive to the gun and shooter.
My point is that the 45-70 is a wonderfully versatile round which can perform most duties very comfortably with many weights of bullets at substantially less than 2000 fps.... as shown with Woodbutcher's GrandPa's Cavalry comments.
I guess my humor is aimed at folks who through ignorance or ego believe the only way to enjoy any round is loaded to the ragged edge of maximum. We've all known a few.
Some folks learn young and quickly...
I find a 350 Grain Ranch Dog at around 1500-1600 fps to be medicine plenty for end to end or shoulder through shoulder penetration on big and heavy hogs using Marlin guide guns, Rugers, Sharps, or Rolling blocks. And it's not hard on hardware or the shooter.... 320s and 405s are not much different.
Cheers.

[Just Duke]

I guess my humor is aimed at folks who through ignorance or ego believe the only way to enjoy any round is loaded to the ragged edge of maximum. We've all known a few.
.


THANK YOU!!!!
I wonder if those with huge egos are aware they have huge egos? I also wonder if they know how annoying they are to the rest of us.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The large cast boolit is all about "Penetration." They kill by poking a large hole thru the animal and creating massive blood loss, unlike high speed jacketed bullets which transfer all their energy to the target and create a shock event as well as massive blood loss. However the shock is usually what kills the animal.

As such one should understand what the parameters are.

In post #4 I pointed out that a 250 gr at 900 fps would completely penetrate an elk sized animal.

It serves to reason that a larger, longer, heavier boolit at the same speed would do the same and more since there is more kinetic energy in the heavier projectile.

By increasing the velocity we induce the boolit to have a shallower trajectory on its way to a distant target. But,,, as long as the speed is above a minimum for complete penetration of said target, the boolit will in fact penetrate completely. Any energy left above that is essentially wasted

Since there is not significant increase in shock transferred to the target, it doesn't matter if it pokes the hole a little faster or not.

A hole is a hole. I liken the effects of these kinds of boolits as similar to be ran thru with a piece of steel rod. There is still some impact force transferred to the target but the main event is the boolit passing right on thru and leaving a gaping hole behind.

I see some variation to this idea when we start talking about Shotgun Slugs and Bullet Proof Vests.

The Vest will not allow penetration so all of the energy of the slug would be transferred to the target. I have some Federal 2 3/4" magnum slugs which are 1oz and run at 1610 fps. I don't see anyone walking away from one of these vest or not, as the slug would certainly come to a halt and it's energy would be completely expended on the target, or with no vest it would go right one thru leaving a 3/4" hole behind.

This shotgun round is the equivalent of a .45-70, 437 gr boolit at 1600 fps, except for one small point. The slug is @3/4" in dia. and the boolit is only about 1/2" in dia.

In a ballistic medium the slug would not penetrate as far as the boolit would simply because of the difference in "frontal area," even though they possess the same kinetic energy. But the point is, the slug will use more of it's energy faster, and thus is more efficient on a smaller target like a person.

However in a case where you want more penetration like on a large animal that is trying to stomp you, since the shotgun slug will not penetrate as far as the boolit will,,, the boolit becomes more efficient. Reason being that the target absorbs the energy from the impact of the fatter slug before the slug can completely penetrate. The boolit, having a smaller frontal area maintains it's impact speed longer and goes on thru since it is not transferring it's energy to the target as much, but the length of the hole results in more overall damage to the target than the slug. This would apply to large animals like buffalos and Elephants where you have to poke a decent hole all the way thru or it won't stop the thing from exacting it's revenge on you. It may anyway.

I think this makes sense? but my real point here is that any energy not used in penetrating the target is wasted,,, so there is little need for it in the first place. The extra velocity will only decrease the trajectory to the target, but unless the target is large enough to absorb the energy,,, it is wasted!

In the end,,, How far into the dirt on the back side do you want to go?

Randy

[pls1911]

Amen to Duke's comment, and at times they go beyond annoyance.

There was once a gent we called max load Larry.
He seemed normal enough, but had a learning disability when it came to loading.
He never accepted the cause of constant head separations, split cases, poor accuracy, and one blown cylinder.
Whenever he showed up, we just packed up and left.

That's been awhile back...I wonder if he's still in one piece?

[John in WYO]

Gun laker,
Thanks for reminding me about my RCBS manual. I'll look it over when I get home.
And to the other posters, thanks for your comments. I'm going to downward revise my velocity thoughts. The reason I'm looking in the first place is all recommendations from far more experienced bear hunters than I am (this will be my first, ever) is that two holes are recommended for letting blood out for tracking purposes. I know, place the first one right and there should be no tracking, but stuff happens. Just wanting to cover the bases and ensure recovery of the critter. It's a long way to AK from WY. Don't want to leave a critter behind, unrecovered.

[Smoke4320]

Amen to Duke's comment, and at times they go beyond annoyance.

There was once a gent we called max load Larry.
He seemed normal enough, but had a learning disability when it came to loading.
He never accepted the cause of constant head separations, split cases, poor accuracy, and one blown cylinder.
Whenever he showed up, we just packed up and left.

That's been awhile back...I wonder if he's still in one piece?

Actually max Load larry showed up at my place ..
his eyes were Blue .. On blew this way and one blew that way :) :)
we still remember him fondly.. and the lesion he taught us
unlike Nascar Mid pack (mid loads) is real nice

[Jacko.357]

I have a Rossi Rio Grande in 45.70. I am shooting a Commercial Hardcast 500 grain Westcast rnfp 32 grains of ADI 2206H [ Hodgdon 4895 ] This Rifle weighs a tic over 6 pounds and it is a dead set pussycat to shoot off the Bench with this Load, a long slow Push. The Stock fits me very well and distributes recoil well. The Cases exhibit zero signs of pressure, the Lever opens easily and I am thinking quite seriously of increasing the Load or developing a Load using ADI 2207 [ Hodgdon 4198 ] for a little more mojo. Sadly I don't have acces to a Chony but I'm guessing its in the high 1300 fps range. I will be buying a Mould to Cast 500 gr rnfp sooner than later as I like the way my Rossi shoots these big Projectiles. It also shoots the Lee 405 HB well. The Rossi being based on the Marlin 336 Action is not as strong as the 1895 Marlin, I have no intention of pushing things, just work within the Rifles capability's

regards Jacko

[waco]

I just checked my notes. RCBS 45-500 over 45gr 3031 out of my Marlin 1895 gave me 1592, and 1550fps for the two rounds I put over the chrony.

[Just Duke]

I just checked my notes. RCBS 45-500 over 45gr 3031 out of my Marlin 1895 gave me 1592, and 1550fps for the two rounds I put over the chrony.

What size do those throw at?

[waco]

What size do those throw at?

Right at .459" with that alloy. I don't remember what it was. It seems a little hard. More than WW anyway.