Are long thin bullets more difficult to cast than short stubby ones or ?

[destrux]

I spent hours last night fighting with a new Lee TL309-230-5R mold that was giving me wrinkles at low temp and air pockets/bubbles at any temp above that, worsening the higher the temp got. I thought I was forgetting how to cast, so I grabbed a well used Lee TL452-200-SWC that I had on the shelf and immediately started dropping perfect bullets with it after preheating it on the top of the pot for a few minutes. So to keep my wits I sat and casted with that one for a while.

I already "lee-mented" the new mold (including the set screw mod for the sprue plate screw), scrubbed it clean with purple power, flattened the block tops and the sprue plate, lubed it with synthetic 2-stroke oil very sparingly.


Are the long skinny bullets problematic or am I forgetting something that I should be doing here?

[bangerjim]

Simple solution...............pressure casting. Works on troublesome molds perfectly!

I do 223's and big long 30's all the time. All Lee molds.

Just put the sprue hole up against the pour spout and fill each cavity of a pre-heated mold. It works perfectly. Flawless boolits from any mold from the 1st drop.

banger

[cbrick]

Many years ago I always heard that small boolits such as 22's were very difficult to cast but my nemesis was long skinny boolits, the 140 gr 6.5's for example. After beating myself up over poor boolits it turns out that the same cure for small boolits was also the cure for long & skinny. MOLD TEMP! Not higher pot/alloy temp but a mold AND sprue plate properly heated. Try a hot plate rather than sitting on the edge of the pot, works much better, works much faster.

Rick

[jhalcott]

I have had a few cranky molds. Usually a hotter MOLD or a change in pour method works. Pressure pouring and a hotter mold ALWAYS seemed to be the answer. Also ANY oil IN THE MOLD is bad for me!

[gwpercle]

I had the same problem with a "new" Lee 2-cavity C312-185-1R. With a bottom pour pot, I put every one from a 10 lb. casting session back in , all rejects . A second 10 lb. session wasn't much better, had a few keepers. Remelted all again and got out the lyman ladle...that ladle pouring did the trick...just about all were perfect.
This mould likes to be ladle pored....don't know why, but it does.
And I preheated it by dipping a corner into the melted alloy for 45 seconds or untill the metal no longer adhered to the mould...then she was ready to cast.

Gary

[Mr Peabody]

I think so.Casting Pistol bullets works well with ladle contact or not. The long skinny ones can be a pain, I think the venting plays a big part of it. Too they seem to over heat quickly.

[melloairman]

I vented a couple of Lee molds . That cured my problem .Marvin
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?215340-Vented-two-Lee-molds-today&highlight=vented+lee+molds+today

[44man]

It should not be! My friend never got his .30 to cast so he brought it here. I just used my normal procedure and never had a reject. I only ladle cast of course. I removed the bottom pour junk, plugged the hole and tossed the parts in the trash.
Those parts are EVIL!

[detox]

Linotype lead does verywell out of my bottom pour furnace. I use the ladle for all other lead types.

[waltherboy4040]

I keep my mold sitting on top waiting for the lead to melt. After it melts I stick a corner of the mold in and it makes all the difference having it hot.

[destrux]

I usually preheat it on the top of my pot while the pot warms up. I usually then quickly cast about 15 casts and dump them right in the sprue/reject can to get the mold warmed up to casting temp. I'll try pre-heating on a hot plate though, because it can't hurt anything to try.

I'm seeing a lot of incomplete fill out near the base, so maybe it is a venting problem. I'll give that venting trick a shot.

I had tried pressure casting and it did help a bit, but I always end up splattering lead all over the place, so I shy away from that unless I absolutely have to.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[KYShooter73]

Before you try anything drastic, take a toothbrush and some dawn and scrub that mold really well. IMHO boolit molds are the only thing in life that don't improve with lubrication. Then crank up the heat on the mold and the alloy until you start getting frosty boolits, then you can back off the heat some if you want. Nothing wrong with a frosty boolit though.

[beagle]

I've never had problems with long, skinnys. The problem comes when you size. If you're using a base first sizer and are not careful, you will bend them. Especially the .22s and .25s. I use a nose first and have no problems./beagle

[cbrick]

Before you try anything drastic, take a toothbrush and some dawn and scrub that mold really well. IMHO boolit molds are the only thing in life that don't improve with lubrication. Then crank up the heat on the mold and the alloy until you start getting frosty boolits, then you can back off the heat some if you want. Nothing wrong with a frosty boolit though.

Boolit molds do tremendously benefit from lubrication, just not in the cavities. Do a search for Bull Plate.

Cranking up the pot/alloy temp is not the way to go and is very detrimental to tin in the alloy. If your pot is 700 degrees and your mold casts well around 450 degrees your alloy is at least 250 degrees over mold casting temp. If 250 degrees isn't enough heat to cast properly 350 or more isn't the fix. Pre-heating the mold and the sprue plate properly is the way to well filled out boolits.

Rick

[cbrick]

I'm seeing a lot of incomplete fill out near the base, so maybe it is a venting problem. I'll give that venting trick a shot.

Before removing metal from a mold try making sure the sprue plate is properly pre-heated as well as the mold. The sprue plate doesn't have nearly the mass the mold blocks do, in addition it spends time sticking out in the air so it cools rapidly. A sprue plate that is too cool is a sure way to have poor base fill-out.

Rick

[KYShooter73]

Boolit molds do tremendously benefit from lubrication, just not in the cavities. Do a search for Bull Plate.

Cranking up the pot/alloy temp is not the way to go and is very detrimental to tin in the alloy. If your pot is 700 degrees and your mold casts well around 450 degrees your alloy is at least 250 degrees over mold casting temp. If 250 degrees isn't enough heat to cast properly 350 or more isn't the fix. Pre-heating the mold and the sprue plate properly is the way to well filled out boolits.

Rick

I'll defer to your experience. Personally, for wrinkles, I usually first think it is contamination in the cavities, if that don't work, I start warming up my mold, if that don't work, I warm up my alloy. I agree that running too hot can be detrimental to your tin content.

[MT Gianni]

The other thing to watch is sizing them . They are easy to bend.

[rintinglen]

A hot mold is your friend and the smaller or thinner the boolit, the bigger the sprue needs to be.
"A new mold can be a fractious thing," if I have the quote right. And different molds respond to different methods. Some like pressure filling, but others will grow fins the size of sewing pins. Some are babies and want spoon feeding from a ladle, while others will work no matter how you fill 'em. I have a single cavity 311-465 that will only give good boolits if I tilt the mold slightly and "swirl" the alloy in off the lip of the sprue cutter, while it's double cavity version fills and drops as pretty as you please.
I will state that the hardest molds for me to wrangle good boolits from were the old Lee single cavity Rifle molds. Those were the dog-gonedest pains in the BVD's to use. They wouldn't hold heat for anything, they didn't want to close properly, they were the worst. I'm glad they don't make 'em anymore.

[Smoke4320]

destrux
I am by no means an expert on casting but have about 35 molds. Almost all were new when I got them.. several molds gave me great pains the first few sessions.. eventually I formed a ritual which to date has served me well in getting new molds to pour well..
first Thing I do is clean them well with dawn and a little comet..Then put them on a hot plate and cook them for about 20 minutes on med heat.. let cool.. do again .. when cooled the second time I repeat the cleaning and oil screws, pins and spew plate.. Fire up the pot and place mold on hotplate set about med .. when lead is hot Start pouring..
If I don't get good bullets within 10 pours I let mold cool again.... Clean and oil again and reheat ..
almost always this solves most issues
I will say the Lee 309 230 5R took me 3 times pouring in a HOT mold before I could get good consistent bullets
also I filed a VERY small v in the top mating surfaces of mold (under Spew plate) to help venting base .. it worked wonders..

[runfiverun]

try just shooting the alloy straight into the sprue hole.

[338RemUltraMag]

I am going to plug our mold shamelessly here, it was designed to get rid of all the issues that Lee 309-230 has.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?234526-A-C-E-300-BLK-subsonic-boolit

[Larry Gibson]

Long thinner moulds are not more difficult but they do require a bit different technique than short stubby moulds. The alloy starts cooling and solidifying as soon as you pour it (whether from a ladle or a bottom pour). Thus in the longer mould it has more of a chance to solidify before proper fill out. As already mentioned a higher alloy temp is helpful as is having a sufficient % of tin in the alloy. also ladle casting works. However I assume the OP is using a bottom pour? Thus pressure casting may or may not work.

Better is to have the alloy at 725 - 750 and open up the spout flow adjustment to let the alloy come out quicker, a lot quicker.

Also squirt a bit of alloy out of the spout just before putting the mould under the spout to fill. You'd be surprised at how cool the alloy in the spout can be if it's there for even the time to open and empty the previous mould fill. I use a Lyman ingot mould under the spot to catch the spurt.

Fill the cavity(s) one at a time fast and leave a good over flow and sprue for each cavity.

When done with the correct technique casting the long thin ones is not hard at all. As mentioned though they do bend easily so let the sprue harden completely and do not size or GC for 7 - 10 days if AC'd and 48 hours if WQ'd. Also do not attempt sizing down more than .002 in a Lyman or RCBS lubrasizer because you can easily bend them there. I prefer to size them in a push through sizer and then lube in the Lyman 450 with the same size H&I die. If the bullet has a long nose and a scraper groove it is also easy to bend them if you bottom the bullet out to hard in the 450 when even just lubing them.

Larry Gibson