How do I use Lyman 450 with gas chk?

[bobkimball]

I am brand new to casting bullets.
I have a Lyman 450 lube machine and the gas check seater.
Can I leave the seater in all the time?
That would allow me to seat the gas check, size and lube the bullet.

I thought I read the gas checks had to be seated as a separate operation then size and lube.

Any help would be appreciated.

Bob

Attaching Gas Checks
You may attach gas checks to your bullets while sizing and lubricating. Simply set the gas
check (cup end up) in the center of the sizing die and place your bullet over it as you pull
down the operating handle. Firm pressure at the bottom of the stroke will usually seat your
gas check firmly and evenly.
However, if the gas check will not fully seat on the bullet using only finger pressure, the
Lyman Gascheck Seater should be employed for best results.
To install, raise the #4500’s push rod until its top bears against the bottom of the sizing die.
Then slip the Gascheck Seater around the threaded pushrod adjusting screw so that the push
rod is held at the base of the sizing die.
Next, a gascheck is set, cup-side up, in the center of the sizing die and a bullet guided into it as
you pull down on the operating handle. Use only enough force to fully seat the gascheck. After
all the gaschecks have been installed, remove the Seater and size and lubricate normally.
Use of the Gascheck Seater ensures the squarest-possible bullet base regardless of the type
of gaschecks used. A good square bullet base translates into improved accuracy.

The above information is from the Lyman site.

Bob

[Dale53]

The Lyman gas check seater limits the travel of the ram to just move far enough to seat the gas check firmly and squarely. It is necessary to seat the checks first (I run all of my checks first and THEN lube and size the bullets).

Of course, if the checks seat easily with your fingers, then you can push them on and size and lube immediately. It depends on the size of the gas check rebate and the alloy whether or not you will be able to seat the checks with your fingers.

I actually prefer that my gas check shank be rather tight on my checks requiring that I use the seater. Some use a plastic hammer and just tap the flat nose of the bullet seating the checks. I prefer the square seating possible with the luber.

Dale53

[Pepe Ray]

The reason that there seems to be confusion and contradictory info regarding the seating of gas checks is because of the two different designs of GC's. (formerly)
The "Old" style Lyman GC was a slip on type. While it's true that the GC would be "sorta" crimped on while sizing and lubing, the parallel sides of the check would allow it to slid into place at the bottom of the stroke, if necessary.
The Hornady (and Gator) check had/has a taper with the wide part at the mouth or lip of the check. This would create a clamping effect when the check was sized onto the base. Therefore it was necessary to seat the check squarely on the base BEFORE clamping/sizing/lubing the boolet. Therefore the "seater" was created.
Actually, for many years before the seater, I used the die wrench, laying it across the die retaining nut, set boolet w/GC on it and press it gently on.
Now that Lyman has gone to crimp on type checks (according to others) seating prior to sizing should be SOP.
Pepe Ray

[4thebrdz]

I took the Lyman gas check seater and added a handle so that I could seat the check then pull out the check seater and lube without handling the boolit more then once.

[jh45gun]

Not sure what the fuss is about I just put the check in the die and put the bullet on top and pull the lever the bullet comes out lubed and the gas check seated and square.

[floodgate]

bobkimball:

To answer your ORIGINAL question: the seater does have to be removed in order to push your boolit all the way into the sizing die. Since the seater is a bit "fiddly" to get in and out, it is probably best to seat a bunch of them, then remove the seater and size them.

floodgate

[ben1025]

I've used Lyman lubrisizers for nearly 40 years and never used a lyman GC seater. I had one for 10 years B4 I knew what it was. I cut a piece of pipe 3/8 inch long split and spread it. Put it on the push out rod, squeezed it together and it stays on all the time. If you take the push rod apart it's not necesary to split the pipe . Copper tubing works ok too. I had 6 lubrisizers and did it to all of them. Never had a problem. ben1025

[medicstimpy]

I usually take a small container or bullets and my box of GC's and just snap them on while watching TV or something. Then when I got enough done, I go to my press and they get crimped when I do the sizing/lube with the Lee Sizer or my Lyman 4500 depending on which bullet.

I don't use cast bullets, GC or not, for anything but practice. Accuracy I use my plated or FMJ's or factory ammo so if the GC's aren't quite 100% square so be it. I haven't noticed any GC's seated improperly as they usually get pressed on properly.

[Tugdriver]

Hi Guy's

Need a little help over here !!!
I am fairly new to boolitcasting so now i have to learn a lot.
Recently i have bought a Lyman 450 lube&sizer to size my home made
"Lee C309-160-R"boolits.The sizer i use is "Lyman .309".
When i messure the boolits right out of the mold,they are .311,way to large i think?
Is .002 to mutch to size in one time?The thing is, i have to use a large amount of force to get them true the sizer?When the GC have to pass the sizer,even more?
I this normal?
I have to say...the Lyman 450 is not fully set up,and there is no lube in the sizer yet.
Just put some sizing-lube on a few boolits to try out.
Maybe when real boolit lube will be used this problem will be over.
I really hope so.I am sure a few boolitcaster will help me out here!!!

Really love the Castboolits web-site and forum.

Thanks
Many greetings
Frank (Belgium)

[Dale53]

Tugdriver;
Welcome to the Forum. We are MOST happy to see you here.

The "rule of thumb" (general rule) is to size the bullet for the throat of the rifle. Take a fired case and if you can slip the bullet into the case (before sizing) with your fingers, then the bullet is not too large. The bullet should not be so large that the case cannot expand when fired to release the bullet. If you can slip the bullet in the neck of a fired case that is PROOF that the case can easily release the bullet when fired.

Often .311" bullets work just fine in a .30 caliber rifle (.30/30, .308, or 30'06 as examples).

Dale53

[Tugdriver]

Hi Dale,

First of all, i have to thank you for your respons!
My .311 boollits don't fit the unsized case?
When they are sized,and the neck is widened,they fit like a glove!
I am sure they will fit my chamber after seating.

My slugged barrel measures .308 exactly.Are you sure .003 oversizing of the boolit is not to much.According to many experienced casters .001 or 002 oversize would be perfect?
How about pressure?

When Lyman moulds are used,the boolits have there own fitting top-punch to protect the boolit from damaging while pushing it true the sizer.
How about Lee boolits like my "C309-160-R"what kind of top punch should i use to protect them while sizing true my Lyman 450?
I now the Lee sizer does'nt work with top-punches because they are pushed from the base.

Thanks again
Greets
Frank

[Dale53]

Two factors limit the pressure when shooting "oversize" cast bullets. Even hard lead alloy is LOTS softer than jacketed bullets. Further, we don't tend to drive lead bullets as fast as we do jacketed bullets (the pressure is less).

There are cartridges where we DO drive as fast as factory (the .30/30 comes to mind). Here again, pressure does not seem to be a problem with somewhat oversize bullets.

NOTE:
If the bullet will not slip in to the mouth of a case fired in that rifle, then you need to reduce the size until it does. There MUST be room between the case neck and the chamber to allow release of the bullet - too tight here WILL cause a pressure problem.

Dale53

[StarMetal]

Two factors limit the pressure when shooting "oversize" cast bullets. Even hard lead alloy is LOTS softer than jacketed bullets. Further, we don't tend to drive lead bullets as fast as we do jacketed bullets (the pressure is less).

There are cartridges where we DO drive as fast as factory (the .30/30 comes to mind). Here again, pressure does not seem to be a problem with somewhat oversize bullets.

NOTE:
If the bullet will not slip in to the mouth of a case fired in that rifle, then you need to reduce the size until it does. There MUST be room between the case neck and the chamber to allow release of the bullet - too tight here WILL cause a pressure problem.

Dale53

Dale,

You need to talk to Ricochet about loading a cast bullet again the rifling and with a heavy crimp in a K31 Swiss before you make your assumptions on cast pressure here.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but you can indeed get dangerous pressures with cast. Just because they are much softer then jacketed bullets is no free safety ticket.

Dale is 100 percent correct on the bullet you wish to shoot much easily slip into the neck of a fired case.

The fit the throat thing is important, but very over rated. Let me explain. You can achieve good accuracy with just fitting the groove. Not a good example but look at the Lyman Cast Book...they sized quite a few of their bullets to exact groove size!!!
I have done that in the past with excellent results but normally it was in modern rifles with tighter throats then military rifles. You need to experiment for yourself and see what shoots best. Just as long, as mentioned, the bullet will fit a fired case neck and have room so the case can expand upon firing and release the bullet, you can shoot just about any size you want, but will need to see which size shoots the best. There are so many factors involved that it would take a set of encyclopedias to list it all.

Joe