Pointy 556/223 molds???

[freebullet]

I've seen a picture somewhere of an ideal cast boolit it had a surprisingly pointy profile. Are there any others? Maybe from a current manufacturer. Any helpful leads appreciated. Looking for a profile to fit a tight chamber.

[FLHTC]

The RCBS 22-55 has a tapered nose

[Doc Highwall]

SAECO #221 is a 60 grain bullet that has a more pointed profile then most.

[Bullshop]

I believe there was a cone point design from Ideal a long time ago. It was much like the cone pointed pistol designs they also had. If you find one expect to pay a high price for it, that is IF you find one and that might take a couple life times to accomplish.

[Larry Gibson]

Most really pointed cast bullets suffer in accuracy if pushed to typical velocities that are needed for ARs to function. The other problem is the short neck of the .223 and the relatively short throats. A cast bullet with a pointy nose can shoot very well at HV IF the bearing surface is 50+ %, preferably 60 - 65%. Those dimensions must be balanced against the bullets weight for use in the AR. The 225450 runs right at 50% bearing surface and usually is about a perfect fit in milsurp chambers with the GC at the base of the case neck and the front kissing the leade. Seated that way 1 lube groove is usually exposed though. The 225450 usually only weighs about 50 gr fully dressed though. Thus I never had much useful accuracy above 2000 fps (using a standard ternary AC'd alloy with a BHN of 15 - 18 +/-) in my 12" twist AR and much less in 7 - 9" twist ARs. Hardening the bullet can help a bit but there's just too much unsupported nose sticking out there.

The most accurate cast bullet (with standard AC'd ternary alloy) that I've found so far is the Lyman 225462, a Loverin design that weighs out about 58 gr fully dressed. It also, when seated as mentioned leaves a lube groove exposed. It has a bearing surface of 63% and a short round nose beyond that. I push it right at 2350 - 2400 fps with very useable accuracy to 300 yards out of my 9 and 12" twist ARs. If we look at the newer designed heavier bullets (60 - 70+ gr) that keep all the lube grooves inside the neck when seated as mentioned we see they are nose bore riders with semi "pointy" noses. The MP 227-65 is a good example. Mine runs 66 gr fully dressed and has a good fit of nose in both my 9 and 12" twist ARs. Still the nose is only supported by the top of the lands. The bullets bearing surface is only 39% which give a lot of leverage for that nose to bend to the side during higher acceleration. Thus with the same alloy as mentioned there is no velocity with accuracy improvement over the Loverin designed 225462. The advantage is simply a bit heavier bullet with no lube groove exposed and reliable functioning in fast twist ARs at a lower velocity level.

Before my usual pundits get a wedgie note the above, as stated, is with AC'd bullets of a ternary alloy with a BHN of 15 - 18. We all know that hardening the bullet through a change in alloy, heat treating or perhaps HCing them changes the level of useable accuracy at higher velocity. Over the practical range of 300 yards there isn't enough trajectory difference between the "pointy cast bullets and the RN Loverin or the semi point MP design to make much difference, especially considering the higher velocity with useable accuracy that is obtained with the latter two.

Now if we hallucinate a bit........lets build and AR with a 14" twist barrel and chamber it in .222 Remington. Then with that longer neck we can keep all the lube grooves of the Loverin 225462 inside the neck with the front driving band just kissing the leade. With a custom mould we do away with the scraper groove and make the nose semi-pointed keeping the same length. Now we're talking 2600 - 2700 fps with very useable accuracy to 400 yards if not 500 yards.

Larry Gibson

[freebullet]

99868

That is the boolit I was talking about. I'd sure like too know the spec on that one. It's tough to research molds due to the sometimes random seeming # designations manufactures place on them.

Thank you for the useful info given so far. As of now that saeco 221 looks like the best looking buy it now option.

I tried my bator mold but no matter what it just don't fit the bore. I sold the bator as I did the weapon I had bought it for.

I'm not too concerned with blistering speeds and the purpose is volume plinkin at short ranges. I would say if I could get something that would fit the bore, cycle the action, and group 3" or less out to a measly 30-40 yards I would consider it a success. Not a real lofty goal but certainly a money saver over jbulls when the wife wants to go nuts draining mags.

Any other available molds I should consider before ordering the saeco 221?

[shooter93]

What Larry said. While not an AR I need a different bullet for my 9.3x62. The group buy mold works well at some lower velocities but I think I'd like to see more bearing length which means it may have to bore ride more than it does. Seems like bearing can make a huge difference if you want to drive the faster without a whole lot of messing with other techniques. Bore riding may not be the answer but it like the 223 is very short necked.

[338RemUltraMag]

I have a 227 75 gr mold for the AR that is done, shipping tomorrow, I have a few extras and it has the nose profile of a 311299.

[freebullet]

338 I've checked out the thread on that. It's a stellar lookin mold and boolits. I'm concerned it won't fit the bore and that the gas check would be down below the neck in the tight throat I'm trying to work with. I'd pay shipping to see if they fit, but I am apprehensive about buying any mold not pointy due to fit.

I've thought of givin up dealing with the little boolits as my sausage like fingers have a hard time dealing with them. I really would like the savings casting would offer if I find a usable boolit. Probably would pay for itself in the first year as much as the wife shoots.

[leadman]

The Lyman 45gr Round Nose works well in an AR and can be pushed to about 2,700 fps with linotype, Hi-Tek coating, and a gas check. It feeds well also. I got around 1.75" groups at 100 yards with it in my son's AR. I have pushed it faster in my Contender 23" bull barrel in 223 Rem but accuracy suffered with groups just under 3" at 100 yards.

[dkf]

Did you consider running say a .223 wylde reamer in your chamber to open it up a little?

[freebullet]

No..it shoots jbulls sub moa and I don't have the reamer. If a friend had the reamer I would try it, its not an expensive barrel. Just a cheap carbine fer plinkin, was surprised its tight honestly. Figured a short pointy boolit mold would fit & work.

[dkf]

I have the 75gr mold 338mag is talking about coming and I have some 75gr NATO from the Mihec mold cast up. I could send you some of both if you want to try some.

[freebullet]

Looks like the boolit in the pic is the Lyman 225450. I want that mold.

[MtGun44]

"Figured a short pointy boolit mold would fit & work."

Hmm - most of the rifle pointed cast designs have failed in actual testing (inaccurate beyond
plinking level loads), which is why there are few out there. Do you just not like the looks
of one of the flat points or think it won't feed?

Larry's comments are right on, and this is why few pointed molds are made anymore.

Bill

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Looks like the boolit in the pic is the Lyman 225450. I want that mold.

I have a single cavity Herters mold...no markings on the mold halves, the sprue plate says, 22475
it drops boolits around 48 gr.
I assume Ole George Herter had Lyman make the mold halves (225450) and he added the sprue plate. Let me know if you want some samples.

Also, The Older Lee 22 Bator molds were notorious for having a large nose...like .225. Surely could have been the cause of your trouble. The new style Lee Bator (with alignment pins like on the 6 cav molds), the nose is .220 and may work better.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1601.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/100_1601.jpg.html)

[cheese1566]

Larry, you really need to get all your knowledge down in a book!

Guys can learn a lot of info from you on your experiences.

[freebullet]

Plinkin loads is what I'm after as stated above, just tryin to save a $ on short range plinkin boolits. If I need fast and sub moa I'd go the easy route with jbulls lol.

The bator I had was new manufacture, and was fine in a bolt -didn't work in the ar even when seated very deep. I may wind up reaming the throat but would rather find a boolit that fits if possible.

I would love some samples, I'd pay shipping. I can replace the lead or provide other boolits in return. What I really really want is to buy one of those molds, I'd pay a premium to get one.

[trixter]

"The bator I had was new manufacture, and was fine in a bolt"

Please share; powder and grains for the bator.

Thanks

[19ellis93]

"The bator I had was new manufacture, and was fine in a bolt"

Please share; powder and grains for the bator.

Thanks
i too would like a little more info on this.