Handgunning for Tigers...

[Dale53]

Here is an interesting clip from Christmas in San Francisco. A Siberian Tiger excapes from the zoo and kills one and mauls others:

http://www.rr.com/flash/index.cfm?rev=10268

The local police killed the Tiger with their sidearms when they discovered it working on a "guest" at the zoo. I'll bet that was a "bit" scary for the police. I would venture to say that was a real perforated carcass by the time the smoke cleared.

Dale53

[13Echo]

Man! Are they ever going to be in trouble with PETA for that. Also I hope the bullets were properly micromarked and were lead free in case a Condor got ahold of the carcass. I hope they read it his rights before opening fire and they didn't use excessive force.

Jerry Liles

[S.R.Custom]

A zoo in San Francisco? Yeah... no hypocrisy there.

[45nut]

We discussed this subject a little bit last nite in chat. I settled upon both my 454 SRH's, my 458 AND my 50 Alaskan Encore pistolas with my 45-70 BFR with bandoleer for ammo carry for the 458,50AK and 45-70. A dozen speedloaders of 454 ammo in a pouch for the little stuff would suffice. No 40 Shortski for my tiger huntin', no way.

[13Echo]

12 Gauge slugs. No better close range medicine for soft skinned dangerous game.

Jerry Liles

[dale2242]

I heard on the news this evening the animal rights people were whining because they did not tranquilize instead of shooting it. If it threatens me it dies. I have no idea what they shot it with. It was threatening them and they fired. Sounds like the right decision to me.

[MSgtUSMC]

When I saw the story on TV and the stories of school shootings, mall shootings, church shootings, post office shooting, etc, I wounder why the victim(s) didn't pull out their defensive sidearm and defend them themselves. What's that you say? It's illegal to have the means of self-defense in those places. Who makes those laws and regulations? Somebody should tell them that professional help for such unreasonable paranoia is available, sometime free, at community mental health facilities.

[fatnhappy]

12 Gauge slugs. No better close range medicine for soft skinned dangerous game.

Jerry Liles

Loaded with something fool proof like brennekes. and put an bayonet on it, it won't save your life but you might take the tiger with you.

[Boz330]

Loaded with something fool proof like brennekes. and put an bayonet on it, it won't save your life but you might take the tiger with you.

Right On! A PH I knew in SA carried a pre 64 model 70 in 375HH, but when he had to track a wounded Lion into the bush, it was a 12ga with Brenneke slugs in a pump.

Bob

[Navahojoe]

Since I don't own a handgun bigger than .45 Colt, I think my 12 ga. pump loaded with 5 each 00 Buck and the .45 for back up. I think that I have read somewhere about African Guides going into the Bush after wounded lions with the same armament, but since I have CSR,,,err, CRS, that might just be speculation on my part.
regards,
NavahoJoe

[Dale53]

John Taylor (Pondoro) was my "African White Hunter Hero" of all times (right up there with Karamojo Bell, in my opinion) and he has written a couple of very interesting books. Mostly about which rifle cartridge that works well with African big game (yeah, I know that tigers are Asian...). He complained about the ridiculous African laws that didn't permit hand guns. He was well acquainted with the need to have a side arm and couldn't. He even mentioned that a good .38 Special with solids would likely get a lion off you, in dire circumstances (brain shot through an open mouth, etc). John knew Elmer Keith and agreed with Elmer's "standards" - they were pretty much "like minded".

In the present situation with the San Franciso Police, I sure would have felt "undergunned" with WHATEVER they are allowed to carry. Like I mentioned before, seeing those ripped up people in front of them and the tiger taking an interest in them, I"ll bet there were a LOT of bullets fired. Fortunately, at least some of them found their intended target. I would like to congratulate the police for a job well done (then lets sue them for killing an endangered species, NOT!!).

Dale53

[RBak]

I'm with Dale53 on this....whatever side arm they do carry would have seemed awful small in such a situation.

The thing I find interesting in this, if such can be said in such a sad case, is the fact that one News Channel reported the young fellows who where torn up, and the young man who was killed, was all friends and had gone to the Zoo together.

Still yet, the two that were only mauled and chewed on where a good 75 yds on the other side of the zoo at a cafe from the one that got killed.

Somehow this leaves a lot of questions in my mind.

Russ...

[Dale53]

>>>Somehow this leaves a lot of questions in my mind.<<<

Yeah, something is sure "funny in Denmark". This is not just a simple "Tiger Escapes". The final conclusions in the investigation will be interesting.

Dale53

[Boz330]

John Taylor (Pondoro) was my "African White Hunter Hero" of all times (right up there with Karamojo Bell, in my opinion) and he has written a couple of very interesting books. Mostly about which rifle cartridge that works well with African big game (yeah, I know that tigers are Asian...). He complained about the ridiculous African laws that didn't permit hand guns. He was well acquainted with the need to have a side arm and couldn't. He even mentioned that a good .38 Special with solids would likely get a lion off you, in dire circumstances (brain shot through an open mouth, etc). John knew Elmer Keith and agreed with Elmer's "standards" - they were pretty much "like minded".

In the present situation with the San Franciso Police, I sure would have felt "undergunned" with WHATEVER they are allowed to carry. Like I mentioned before, seeing those ripped up people in front of them and the tiger taking an interest in them, I"ll bet there were a LOT of bullets fired. Fortunately, at least some of them found their intended target. I would like to congratulate the police for a job well done (then lets sue them for killing an endangered species, NOT!!).

Dale53

This guy was a PH in Tansania and they were not allowed handguns. He said that he would loved to have a 44 mag for just such encounters.

Bob

[leftiye]

Msgt., The right to life transends any law as there are no people who wouldn't break such law in order to live (airhead dumb@$$ed idiots and suicidal mental patients excluded). The lawmakers need to recognize this and that therefore the laws interfering with this right should be unenforceable as they interfere with THE inalienable and unlegislatable right.

[Ghugly]

The rumor is that the deceased had climbed the fence and was dangling his leg over the moat, teasing the tiger. The outraged tiger climbed out by grabbing the kids leg. If this is true, I wonder how far zoos (and every other place imaginable) are expected to go to protect stupid people from themselves.

[Reaper]

According to Fox News, the police killed the tiger using sidearms chambered in .40 S&W. Shot placement or in this case, lucky shot placement. I don't know about reading the tiger it's rights, but they did yell stop before opening fire.

[crowbeaner]

AHHH. The land of fruits and nuts. Why am I not surprised. What, no Rodney King type riots from the tree huggers? Poor kitty; he needs some sensitivity classes. He shouldn't have reacted to a little teasing. Maybe he needs some anger management courses. Oh. RIGHT, HE'S DEAD. The fence is supposed to keep the animals in or out? You can't fix stupid, and the cat ate the mouse. How many shots did the PD fire at the unarmed tiger? 41? Was the tiger reaching for his wallet and ID? Now we all know we need gun control to stop this type of tragedy. I think I'm going to take some Pepcid to settle my stomach. Idiots all.

[armoredman]

I believe Cali law requires the officers to be charged with the crime of killing an endagered animal. This IS the state that does not allow you to kill a mountain lion, even if he's eating you.

[RBak]

I believe Cali law requires the officers to be charged with the crime of killing an endagered animal. This IS the state that does not allow you to kill a mountain lion, even if he's eating you.

FWIW; I can't believe that common sense is not written somewhere in all those laws.
Isn't a Police Office charged with the protection of life and property of those he serves?

I may not be able to just go out shoot a mountain lion, and you may not be able too either, but isn't there a common sense thing that would dictate that If I saw a mountain lion eating someone that I would not be able to defend that person and / or myself?????

Still yet, at the same time, I suspect being charged and being convicted are two totally different things.....at least I would hope.

BTW: From what I've seen of this in last day or so, it seems that the Tiger may have been provoked.....something Dale53 touched on earlier.
This is the part I'm waiting to hear more about.

Russ...

[shotstring]

Who would have thought this tiger had it in her. I believe this is the one from the incident. I took pictures of all the tigers at the S.F. Zoo 2 months ago.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z113/vickimoonbeam/IMG_1353.jpg

Actually, this tiger was the one that I wouldn't want to cross. She did not have a layed back attitude at all, and to do what she did, including following her first victim all the way across the zoo, she must have either been really ticked off or very possesive about her catch.

[Bent Ramrod]

The tiger who killed the 17 year old and injured his two friends had chomped some flesh off an employee just about a year ago. The zoo director refused to do anything about it since everybody who cares deeply about animals knows that tigers are cute, soft gentle creatures that never attack unless something "provokes" them.

Those poor cops--the dispatch was so vague that they didn't know what was loose or how many of what it was there were. It was getting dark (just after closing time, although there were still attendees around) and they had to make a lot of decisions fast. It was a tiger confrontation worthy of Jim Corbett, even if it was in an urban environment.

Everybody is astounded the tiger actually got out of its "environment" since there's a moat almost 30 feet wide with a wall 14 feet high and a fence 4 feet high on top of that. They say nothing like this (an attack on a spectator, as opposed to an employee) has ever happened before. Of course, "before" animals were kept in cages, behind bars, where they paced back and forth and looked bored. Anybody who has had a house cat should have no illusions about how high the felidae can jump if they are sufficiently interested in doing so.

I just came back from the Bay Area and got a skinful of the tiger news. All can take comfort in the fact that the zoo employees were offered grief counseling and there was a sidebar in the SF Chronicle on how to tell The Children about the tiger attack without traumatizing them for life, since Children typically identify wild animals with beloved cartoon characters and stuffed toys.

And they're not the only ones. The Letters were running about 3:1 for the tiger, with the 1 against the zoo, not for the victims or the cops.. Typical thought offered: "Currently the Siberian tiger...population is estimated to be 500; the human...population is estimated to be 6 billion. Subtracting 1 from each group, we now have 499 versus 5,999,999,999. R.M., 68, SF"

[Dale53]

>>>"Currently the Siberian tiger...population is estimated to be 500; the human...population is estimated to be 6 billion. Subtracting 1 from each group, we now have 499 versus 5,999,999,999. R.M., 68, SF"<<<

Of course, those making that asinine statement, would take a slightly different course if they were confronted with a man eating tiger OF THAT YOU CAN BE SURE!!

Dale53

[dualsport]

I'm reviving this thread because I've read so much about people's idea of the best choices for protection in the backcountry, or even sometimes the state park nearby. I'm not implying that I'm an expert, but have had enough real world experience and training to offer an educated opinion. To keep it from becoming a book, I'll just say look at what the cops are using. Remember this one? " I use my handgun to get to my shotgun which I use to get to my rifle." If you traipse around in grizzly country you know you may need something big. For the rest of us, a light 12ga. (Mossberg 500) with 18 1/2" barrel loaded with buckshot, and a good light on it. Night sights (Trijicon) are a big plus, as trouble will usually come in the night. A black bear attack is astronomically unlikely, but a human or cougar attack is not. People and cats aren't that tough, a 9mm with reliable hollowpoints and a good light will do the job, especially since if you are using your handgun things have gotten close. In a real tight spot we get overwhelmed by adrenaline, get auditory exclusion and tunnel vision, the effects of adrenaline overload. That's when PRACTICE and muscle memory will save your butt. I have fired a 1 1/2" .38 Sp. at night and not heard the shot AND was blinded even more by muzzle flash. Think twice about your weapons, you won't be thinking about how proud you are of your homemade bullets when your --- is on the line. Practice shooting at night, under stress.

[GabbyM]

Last year up in Chicago the PD shot and killed a mountain lion inside city limits. Which is many miles past the suburbs. This was of course a wild animal not a zoo resident. Mountain lions go around 175 pounds which is less than a third the weight of a Tiger. When those Chicago PD officers kissed their wives goodbye on the way to work you suppose they were thinking this is the day I'll confront a mountain lion? You can be sure they do not carry tranquilizer guns in their patrol cars to deal with lion attack in Chicago. Or San Fransisco for that matter.