BTUs, what do I need?

[lockinload]

1st post and brand new to the world of casting. Long time reloader.
So, I need to get a burner for my smelting, is there a specific BTU that works best?
I will be using a 10 quart cast iron dutch oven. Thanks for your help.

[JASON4X4]

I would get the highest you can find and put a shield around it to keep the heat in

[tengaugetx]

I'm using a fish cooker I got at Walmart. Plenty of heat. Also, by bringing up your temps a little slower you can forego sorting and just skim off the iron and zinkers.

[HeavyMetal]

I'll second fish cooker / turkey fryer, bought the one I got at a yard sale for 20 bucks.

With some sheet metal I made a wind protector for it that channels the heat up not out.

The influx of steel and zinc WW will be an issue for you, with a turkey fryer you can spot both types of WW before the zinc melts into your lead WW, zinc and steel both float easily on the lead.

I have a plumbers pot that geta a whole lot hotter but I found the zinc issue reduced me to the turkey fryer, kind of a good thing the fryer is loud but the plumbers pot sounds like a F-16, lots of questions about the jet car I was building in the back yard!

[lockinload]

Thanks for the replies. Was hoping for something along the lines of 50K BTUs.
I am seeing stuff from 30K to 200k, all turkey type cookers. Can you get the metal too hot to smelt?

[10mmShooter]

Lockinload.... I cant remember the exactly btu on my "tukery type" cooker, its an 8 inch round burner double row of holes....seems likes it was 60K BtU or something. The extra capacity wont hurt anything you would just be able to smelt up bigger batches at a time more heat, larger pot, can handle more lead etc.

Yes....keep your smelting under 750 degrees get a themometer, the hotter you go the quicker you oxide your lead and tin, melt it flux it and get your lead off the heat, also you get too hot and if any zinc weights slipped in you will melt them too...very bad.

Also just a reminder, a 8 quart iron "dutch oven" style pot will hold right at 100 lbs of melted lead. I usually limit my runs to about 75 lbs, 100 lbs of lead in the yard would be bad. Also don't beat on your cast iron, whens its hot it can crack if you whack to hard.

[jsizemore]

I use a 170,000btu burner with a 10psi regulator to smelt with my 10qt cast iron dutch oven. Needle valve installed after regulator to control the flame. H/W heater sheetmetal windshield and top for lid. My turkey fryer stand is 22" tall so there's no sore back from ladleing 150lbs of alloy from the pot. I adjust the flame so the tips are just at bottom edge and don't lap the sides. When the melt is liquidus I throttle the flame back to keep the temp under 700F. The flame is just toucking the bottom of the pot.

[dikman]

"liquidus"? :lol:

[bangerjim]

"liquidus"? :lol:

Liquidus is the correct term to use describing when a solid turns liquid.

banger

[dikman]

I consider myself quite widely read, but that is the first time I've come across that particular term. It's always nice to learn something new - but it still sounds funny :D.

[lockinload]

Lockinload.... I cant remember the exactly btu on my "tukery type" cooker, its an 8 inch round burner double row of holes....seems likes it was 60K BtU or something. The extra capacity wont hurt anything you would just be able to smelt up bigger batches at a time more heat, larger pot, can handle more lead etc.

Yes....keep your smelting under 750 degrees get a themometer, the hotter you go the quicker you oxide your lead and tin, melt it flux it and get your lead off the heat, also you get too hot and if any zinc weights slipped in you will melt them too...very bad.

Also just a reminder, a 8 quart iron "dutch oven" style pot will hold right at 100 lbs of melted lead. I usually limit my runs to about 75 lbs, 100 lbs of lead in the yard would be bad. Also don't beat on your cast iron, whens its hot it can crack if you whack to hard.

Thanks for the input, I never thought, in a forum like this, I would get a warning about "whacking too hard", but seriously, why would I be banging on the pot in the first place?

[lockinload]

I'll second fish cooker / turkey fryer, bought the one I got at a yard sale for 20 bucks.

With some sheet metal I made a wind protector for it that channels the heat up not out.

The influx of steel and zinc WW will be an issue for you, with a turkey fryer you can spot both types of WW before the zinc melts into your lead WW, zinc and steel both float easily on the lead.

I have a plumbers pot that geta a whole lot hotter but I found the zinc issue reduced me to the turkey fryer, kind of a good thing the fryer is loud but the plumbers pot sounds like a F-16, lots of questions about the jet car I was building in the back yard!

Could you expound on "types of WW" and zinc melting into the lead. Is this a removal process that is done early in the smelting process? Anyone, thanks.

[jsizemore]

Go to Sticky 'Guide to Hand Sorting Wheelweights' in the Lead & Lead Aloys page.

[lockinload]

Go to Sticky 'Guide to Hand Sorting Wheelweights' in the Lead & Lead Aloys page.

Thanks, that was quite informative

[Lead Fred]

In the ole days, they used campfires......

My modern campfire is an Colman camp stove

[mold maker]

The iron/steel (Fe), WWs will float with no problem, just skim them with the clips. The zinc however is a different animal. They can be trapped under the cold lead WWs, against the pot bottom, and melted without a chance to float. It's easier to eliminate the zinc before it ever makes it to the pot. As hard as WWs are to acquire, taking chances with it is chancy at best.
No matter how much time it takes, there is no better way to assure clean WW lead, than to bit each with a pair of pliers.
Yeah, I know it takes time, but todays clean lead inventory, is tomorrows pot of gold.

[CGT80]

I use a bass pro fish fryer and a harbor freight dutch oven. I used the bottles from my toy hauler which are about twice as big as a typical bbq propane bottle. They might be 20 or 30 pound bottles. My flame was more orange than blue, even with a full bottle. I turned the adjustment to let as much air in the mix as possible. It took 20-30 minutes to melt a full pot of range scrap with the lid on it. The cleaned melt came in at 55 pounds per batch with a lot of jackets and dirt. I think the dutch oven is 6 quarts. The flame should be blue, but it worked well enough and I won't smelt more than once or twice per year, most likely.

A wire mesh spoon, for a deep fryer, from walmart, was just the ticket for skimming. I used side cutters to test all my wheel weights when I did them. I got my melt to 1,000 degrees one time. You do need a thermometer.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

For all those concerned with zinc wheel weights in their melt or who are unsure of the smelting process, here's an explanation on how to deal with the zinc wheel weights that may slip through an inspection and the best smelting temperature in general for processing lead wheel weights and the range of hardness/mixes of them:

1. Google the melting temperature of lead, you'll find it to be right at 725 degrees Fahrenheit if memory serves. Also Google the melting temperature of zinc. This will show you at what temperature your zinc wheel weights will melt and ruin your pot of boolit lead. It is important you understand these two fundamental temperatures, because they are how you are going to melt your wheel weights without melting your zinc wheel weights, allowing you to skim the zinc out of your smelt at the same time you skim out the steel clips and trash.
2. Use a turkey/fish fryer somewhere around 50K BTU output. I have one built with a frame built of re-bar. It's strong enough to hold a pot of lead without collapsing. This is important cause the larger your pot, the heavier it is and lead is a heavy, heavy metal. Keep this in mind when selecting a fryer.
3. Get a good quality thermometer. You want to read accurate when it comes to the temps due to the zinc issues.
4. To improve your heat output and fuel efficiency, get a steel shield made for your burner output to focus the burner's heat upward, rather than outwards. Make sure your gas regulator has an adjustment on it. The one that came with your turkey fryer should have an adjustment.
5. To hold the heat you've made in your smelting pot, get a steel shield made to surround your smelting pot. Leave enough room around the pot so there's some air for insulation purposes. This helps maintain your pots heat and saves you propane.
6. Load your wheel weights after sorting through the trash the mechanics typically throw into the wheel weight buckets.
7. As your smelting pot is coming up to temperature (725 degrees Farenheit), keep a close eye on the temperature and cut back on your gas/fuel flow so as not to exceed your goal temperature. As you get close to 725, you will see the wheel weights begin to melt. Make sure and stir the pot at this point to get the melted lead into contact with the un-melted wheel weights.
8. Stay on top of things and try to get the pot to stabilize right at 725 degrees without over shooting, though between 725 and 750 degrees is acceptable.
9. Once the lead has gotten mostly melted, you'll want to toss in some sawdust (ideal), leftover lube/wax candle (ok/good), or other flux material to help you clean the melted lead of impurities (dross). It will catch on fire and burn to ash, during this time, you will want to stir it into the melt to cause impurities to rise to the surface where you can skim them off.
10. Skim off the impurities, starting with the steel clips, zinc wheel weights (which aren't melted if you've kept your temperature correct) and any other nasty trash. Make sure and scrape the sides and bottom of your pot for trash and dross.
11. Once the lead begins to look a beautiful silver color, it is ready to be poured into molds. You'll need a ladle of some kind (big stainless steel ones work good for large ingot making) to scoop the melted lead into your ingot molds.
12. Once the lead sets up in the molds, flip the molds over and stack up the ingots in a location of your choice.

[RacingRedGT]

My fryer is only a 5psi 60k BTU burner and I can melt an overflowing 5quart Dutch oven in 20 minutes. Just make sure the burner is a high pressure one. It should say on the box. My temp actually hit 1000 degrees. I wasn't expecting it to melt that fast and it wasn't even turned up all the way. Thank god I sorted out all the zinc.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

My fryer is only a 5psi 60k BTU burner and I can melt an overflowing 5quart Dutch oven in 20 minutes. Just make sure the burner is a high pressure one. It should say on the box. My temp actually hit 1000 degrees. I wasn't expecting it to melt that fast and it wasn't even turned up all the way. Thank god I sorted out all the zinc.

You'll know for sure when you start casting with the smelted lead. And this is the reason you don't want "too" much heat and why you want to have a top quality thermometer and monitor it closely.

[jsizemore]

When I started, I used a 4 quart dutch oven with a 5psi regulator. When I went to a 10 quart dutch oven I needed more BTU's so I upped the regulator to 10psi and a 170,000 BTU burner. I've never run it wide open and after 150lbs of lead is melted, I cut it back so the flames are barely touching the pot.

[RacingRedGT]

You'll know for sure when you start casting with the smelted lead. And this is the reason you don't want "too" much heat and why you want to have a top quality thermometer and monitor it closely.

I do keep a Lyman thermometer in the pot. Kids distracted me for a few minutes with getting the outside toys setup. I tested the whole batch with acid. Thankfully it all passed.

[Capt Fox]

Does anyone know if weed burners have enough BTU for melting lead? I have at least one just not sure of the BTU out put.

[rockshooter]

Dave in flowery, etc-
well said!
Loren

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I do keep a Lyman thermometer in the pot. Kids distracted me for a few minutes with getting the outside toys setup. I tested the whole batch with acid. Thankfully it all passed.

Kids are good for that kind of thing. Mine are thankfully grown with their own kids now, but when they were small, I got to where I wouldn't do any lead melting operations unless I was sure Mom was around, knew I was melting lead and was focused on keeping an eye on the kids for me. One slip up and you can have a disaster and injured babies are especially hard to replace/repair.

BTW, take as much time as you can to play with them and love up on them now. They will get to where they're not as receptive to playing as time wears on.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Does anyone know if weed burners have enough BTU for melting lead? I have at least one just not sure of the BTU out put.

They can and do. You just have to figure out how to mount them safely or be focused in hand held operation. Be careful, they are HOT as smelters and you can melt zinc with them real easy. Buddy of mine was going whole hog with one and ruined a nice huge 20 gallon propane tank half full of WW with one. Luckily, someone on the board here came up with a way to clean that stuff up and get it useable, but it was a PAIN for him to deal with, something to avoid.

[Capt Fox]

Thanks,
I am getting things together so I can smelt down all the different types of lead into ingots.

thanks again

[Jeff Maney]

1st post and brand new to the world of casting. Long time reloader.
So, I need to get a burner for my smelting, is there a specific BTU that works best?
I will be using a 10 quart cast iron dutch oven. Thanks for your help.
I have a Bayou Classic burner, 55K BTU, 10# regulator bought from eBay & 10 quart Dutch oven. Don't see any need for higher BTU, works great & doesn't burn a lot of propane.
Jeff

[CraigOK]

does one need a hose for the propane tank at least XX', or just w/e the turkey fryer comes with? Do you use a separate tank for smelting that you keep away from the grill/food?

[Jeff Maney]

does one need a hose for the propane tank at least XX', or just w/e the turkey fryer comes with? Do you use a separate tank for smelting that you keep away from the grill/food?
I use the SS hose that came with the burner, about 4 feet long. I have 2 grill size tanks that I rotate between the grill and the smelter.

Jeff

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I'm going to be doing some smelting fairly soon. I think I'll take some pictures, break the write up I put in earlier in this post and start a thread on smelting for the new guy. That way, anybody new will have a basis to start and can improve on what I've done successfully.

[CraigOK]

I'm going to be doing some smelting fairly soon. I think I'll take some pictures, break the write up I put in earlier in this post and start a thread on smelting for the new guy. That way, anybody new will have a basis to start and can improve on what I've done successfully.

that would be great and very much helpful

[Lead]

I always use cuttin torch from top an fish fryer from bottom very fast.