??? on 38 spl - 38 Colt Long & Short casings & BP Loading

[bedbugbilly]

I hope someone can answer this question for me - at this point, it's strictly "hypothetical". I reload several calibers - a lot of 38 spl. I've shot BP for over 50 years (muzzleloading and BP C & B) but have never ventured into reloading BP cartridges.

I am hoping to get a Uberti/Cimarron 1872 open top in 38 Colt / 38 Special. With this, I want to play around with different loads/cartridges - nothing "hot" but mainly my shooting will be just plinking rounds - some paper, some cans, etc. at a max of about 25 yards or so. This particular pistol has a standard 38 Spl. size bore - .357. I'll be shooting my cast bullets - normally I size them to .358 for my 38s.

So . . . I want to try some 38 Spl, some 38 Colt Long and some 38 Colt Short. More than likely, most of my shooting will be with 38 Colt Long but I still want to play around with the Spls., Longs and Shorts. So . . . my question is this. To get started . . . I have plenty of 38 spl. brass.

Since the 38 Spl is 1.155 OAL (casing) . . . I thought I'd trim about 20 or 30 down to 38 Colt Long which would be 1.031 OAL (casing). Should be easily done.

For the 38 Colt Short though . . which has an OAL of .765 (casing) - can 38 Spl. brass be trimmed down to this length and still work as a 38 Colt Short? All will be loaded to their respective loading data (light to mild loads) but is the construction of a 38 Spl. casing going to allow the right wall thickness of the casing and the right ID to be slightly flared and have a .358 dia. lead bullet seated to the correct depth if trimmed to .765? Keep in mind, that in the 38 Spl and 38 Colt Long I will probably be using either a 150 gr. RN or a 125 gr. RF (both Lee molds) but in the Colt 38 Short, I'd be using a lighter gr. wt. cast bullet - probably a 105 gr. SWC.

I would be experiment first with 3F BP - and probably would also see how light/mild smokeless loads would work as well.

Yes, I know that the 38 spl brass could be utilized and different volumes of BP utilized but I just want to play with the different cartridge cases to see how they'd work. I have a feeling that for this particular revolver - I'd probably end up using 38 Colt Long (just because) but if the 38 Colt Shorts worked well, then I'd go ahead and buy 500 casings.

I just don't know if the 38 spl casings can be cut down to 38 Colt Short and have them work O.K. for experimenting? i.e. have enough powder room to not increase pressure, etc. Or, for the 20 to 30 casings I need for experimenting need to be mfgd. for 38 Colt Short instead of altering 38 spl. brass? Or, am I over thinking this? Anybody ever played with this?

The original 38 Colt Short was a whole different ballgame as they were designed to be used in the '51 Navy conversions - different case dias. and different bullets to utilize the larger bores of the .36 Navy. What I'm looking to do is use the same length cartridge case as the original 38 Colt Short but the same rim/case dimensions as the 38 Colt Long and 38 Spl.

Thanks for you thoughts and input - greatly appreciated.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, bedbugbilly. I am using .38 long-colt in a Kirst conversion cyl. in .38 long-colt fitted to a 1972 era Colt 1851 .36 percussion navy revolver. I couldn't bring myself to mar that beautiful C.C. by cutting recoil shield for loading gate..so my Kirst has the gate..but I have to remove cyl. to load..no biggie. Anyway..to your question. I ordered both the long & short colt cases from Buffalo Arms Co. When I recieved the cases..I noticed that both sizes were Starline brass. The long was marked as such...but the short cases were headstamped .38 Spec. So they have cut down reg. Special brass..I would have thought the case walls would be too thick on such a short case? haven't got around to loading the shorties yet. I am using 2.8gr. Bullseye with A Rapine 158gr. hollow base bullet. This light load shoots to sights..more powder=higher P.O.I. plus out of respect for that weaker 19th century 3 piece..held-together by a wedge design. With soft lead even this light charge fully expands whole bearing surface of bullet into grooves. Maybe this year I can finally find time to get a 1901 army .38 talking again! Good luck on your project!

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you for the info. That's was what I was thinking in regards to cutting a 38 spl to 38 Colt short - that the wall thickness might be too thick to get .358 in? I know it won't take much to trim the 38 spl down to 38 Long. I did some checking around and right now, Track of the Wolf has some Starline in stock for the Short and Long. I may just bite the bullet and order a pack of a 100 in each (Short and Long) and try them out. If I find that I'm end up not using the Short cases, I can always sell them to someone who needs them. I have a feeling though, that a decent little plinking load can be worked up for the Shorts.

When you get your shorties loaded - can you post your results and thoughts on them? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on them.

I don't have one of the 1901 Armies but would love to find one sometime. I do have a 1910 Colt Army Special in 38 spl but it's still a different animal than the early ones chambered for the 38 Long. I'm keeping my eye out for a HB mold that would work well in that style (1901).

I thought about doing a conversion on one of my Navies but decided to go with the 1872 open top to begin with as with the .357 bore on them, it will make things much simpler for me!

Thanks again!

[bob208]

yes you can cut the .38 spl. back for the long and short casings. now there are 2 .38 long colt cases. the one is the original which is a little shorter to use the out side lube bullets the other is longer to use the newer .38 bullets. it is the book shooting colt single actions.