Rossi carbine smoothing-up?

[Ragnarok]

I've got two of these 'Pumas' now. My first I bought new a few years back is a stainless .44 mag carbine..and it's a smooth working..nice feeding little rifle right from the box. The only modifications I've made was to delete the safety and alter the rear sight a bit so the POA matched the POI.

The 'new' Rossi I just got(the one I de-dented the mag-tube on in another topic here) is an older pre-safety blue SRC version in .44-40 chambering. This one feeds rough.

Looking it over and just cycling the action with no ammo it works fine. Everything inside does what it needs to do. Load a few rounds in the tube and try cycle the thing and the carrier has trouble lifting the cartridge. Takes some effort or a hit forward on the lever to get the carrier to lift.

I compared my slick-working .44 mag Rossi with this tough-working .44-40 Rossi...and seems the cartridge rim isn't sliding up the face of the ejector as it should. The ejector has two funky looking 'projections' on both guns. These apparently slide the cartridge forward a bit as the cartridge rises. The .44-40 ejector is going to need some smoothing...maybe a touch of re-profiling...

Does anybody understand what I'm talking about..and have any advice on accomplishing this task??

[Pb2au]

1st, strip it down, pull the stock and clean the bejeebers out of the action. Use your favorite aerosol gun scrubber/ brake cleaner whatever to really clean out the crud and grease and goo.

The most simple slicking up you can do is just start with the bolt and run your fingers over all of the bearing surfaces and feel for burrs. I use a couple of small machinist stones to lightly break the edges and remove any machining burrs. Do the same for all the moving bits.
Pay attention to the hook end of the extractor. Make sure the forward face of it is slick, and the hook is not dull.
Lube it up with your preferred lube. I use a grease now from work called Kluber-lube, but again, use what you prefer.
Re assemble and go shoot!

[sparky45]

1st, strip it down, pull the stock and clean the bejeebers out of the action. Use your favorite aerosol gun scrubber/ brake cleaner whatever to really clean out the crud and grease and goo.

The most simple slicking up you can do is just start with the bolt and run your fingers over all of the bearing surfaces and feel for burrs. I use a couple of small machinist stones to lightly break the edges and remove any machining burrs. Do the same for all the moving bits.
Pay attention to the hook end of the extractor. Make sure the forward face of it is slick, and the hook is not dull.
Lube it up with your preferred lube. I use a grease now from work called Kluber-lube, but again, use what you prefer.
Re assemble and go shoot!

Be careful when you run your fingers over the bearing surface, those edges are SHARP!! DAMHIK!!

[Ragnarok]

Ehh....It ain't so simple as a simple de-horn....I examined the gun's issue a bit further..compared with my newer Rossi .44 92 carbine and the cool old original .44WCF 1892 sporting-rifle I bought same time as the defective Rossi 92..the carrier is lifting too early. That's what's wrong!

Sticking ammo in the Winchester rifle or the .44 mag Rossi of mine(which both work great)...crank it through and the carrier lifts shells just as the bolt/ejector clear the shell's rim. My 'new' older Rossi lifts cartridges just in time to cram them into the bottom of the ejector...bolt doesn't travel as far back as the comparison guns either. It's going to need more than sandpaper and a diamond-file I think.

[220swiftfn]

Ehh....It ain't so simple as a simple de-horn....I examined the gun's issue a bit further..compared with my newer Rossi .44 92 carbine and the cool old original .44WCF 1892 sporting-rifle I bought same time as the defective Rossi 92..the carrier is lifting too early. That's what's wrong!

Sticking ammo in the Winchester rifle or the .44 mag Rossi of mine(which both work great)...crank it through and the carrier lifts shells just as the bolt/ejector clear the shell's rim. My 'new' older Rossi lifts cartridges just in time to cram them into the bottom of the ejector...bolt doesn't travel as far back as the comparison guns either. It's going to need more than sandpaper and a diamond-file I think.

Sounds like you have to time the carrier..... Removing a LITTLE metal from the bottom of the carrier where it gets hit by the lever will delay the timing of carrier lift. Other than that, I'd be checking for wear (egged holes or a bent drift pin could be keeping the bolt from complete travel...)


Dan

[Ragnarok]

I guess the first thing to do would be to tear the action apart and inspect.

[Pb2au]

I guess the first thing to do would be to tear the action apart and inspect.

Exactly.

[Ragnarok]

I worked on the Rossi carbine off and on most of the afternoon.

First I carefully inspected the M92 actions I have that work/feed well(105 year old Winchester rifle/about 4 year old Rossi/Braztech stainless M92 carbine)...just to see why they fed right and what pops-up when...still boiled down to the Rossi .44-40 carbine jamming the rim of the rising-round into the bottom of the ejector...would feed with force...cartridge lifter rising way early..not as much stroke to the bolt as the others..

Then stripped the buttstock off and the action-guts out the action as far as the lifter. First thing I noticed was the ejector front-bottom edge wasn't all that skillfully rounded-off where the cartridge rims slide up. This the two parallel projections on the ejector front. One was rounded on the bottom about like my comparison guns..the other side a bit 'square' on the bottom. Cleaned that up and sanded both sides nice and smooth. Reassembled carbine and tried to feed ammo through the action and it was a touch better maybe.

Not good enough..I took it back apart as far as the cartridge lifter...draw-filed approx. .002" or so off the pad where the lever bump hits the lifter. Reassembled again and tried to feed ammo...BETTER! Not as good as the ancient Winchester or stainless carbine..but better enough I think. Can cycle rounds through without danger of snapping the lever off!

The lifter still seems to rise plenty early compared to the other 92 actions..but it's working. This older Rossi 92 is noticeably cruder than it's newer sister Rossi as far as action fit-up.

[220swiftfn]

I worked on the Rossi carbine off and on most of the afternoon.

First I carefully inspected the M92 actions I have that work/feed well(105 year old Winchester rifle/about 4 year old Rossi/Braztech stainless M92 carbine)...just to see why they fed right and what pops-up when...still boiled down to the Rossi .44-40 carbine jamming the rim of the rising-round into the bottom of the ejector...would feed with force...cartridge lifter rising way early..not as much stroke to the bolt as the others..

Then stripped the buttstock off and the action-guts out the action as far as the lifter. First thing I noticed was the ejector front-bottom edge wasn't all that skillfully rounded-off where the cartridge rims slide up. This the two parallel projections on the ejector front. One was rounded on the bottom about like my comparison guns..the other side a bit 'square' on the bottom. Cleaned that up and sanded both sides nice and smooth. Reassembled carbine and tried to feed ammo through the action and it was a touch better maybe.

Not good enough..I took it back apart as far as the cartridge lifter...draw-filed approx. .002" or so off the pad where the lever bump hits the lifter. Reassembled again and tried to feed ammo...BETTER! Not as good as the ancient Winchester or stainless carbine..but better enough I think. Can cycle rounds through without danger of snapping the lever off!

The lifter still seems to rise plenty early compared to the other 92 actions..but it's working. This older Rossi 92 is noticeably cruder than it's newer sister Rossi as far as action fit-up.

Something else to check, IIRC the drift pin on the interarms (and earlier) ones were a REALLY soft steel, I could see either wear to the pin creating slop, or even the pin itself making contact on the inside of the receiver...


Dan

[Ragnarok]

Something else to check, IIRC the drift pin on the interarms (and earlier) ones were a REALLY soft steel, I could see either wear to the pin creating slop, or even the pin itself making contact on the inside of the receiver...


Dan

Izzat the big pin that links the lever to the bolt(plus holds in the ejector goodies)?...If so it's in good shape.

This Rossi I'm guessing has always had problems...older but not much used. I asked the guy I bought it from where he got it..and he had won/bought it from an internet auction some years ago. Noticed it was tough-working and put it in the project-pile. No telling how many frustrated owner's this thing has had...

I thought about stripping the carbine back down and draw-filing some more of the lifter's 'pad'..however the cool old carbine is working fair/decent now...I decided best just leave it for now and see how it works(keeps working). Hard to put metal back on after filing it off!

[220swiftfn]

Izzat the big pin that links the lever to the bolt(plus holds in the ejector goodies)?...If so it's in good shape.

This Rossi I'm guessing has always had problems...older but not much used. I asked the guy I bought it from where he got it..and he had won/bought it from an internet auction some years ago. Noticed it was tough-working and put it in the project-pile. No telling how many frustrated owner's this thing has had...

I thought about stripping the carbine back down and draw-filing some more of the lifter's 'pad'..however the cool old carbine is working fair/decent now...I decided best just leave it for now and see how it works(keeps working). Hard to put metal back on after filing it off!

Yep, that's the one, I just remember that if mine wasn't seated all the way, it would make contact somewhere (I'm thinking it was getting hung up on the locking bolt channel....)

Anyhow, if you're only taking off .002 at a time and then checking, I don't think there's much risk of going too far without realizing it......


Dan

[Ragnarok]

You know?...It's working good now!

Just that little bit of 'de-horning' and smoothing the front edge of the ejector..and filing a couple thousandths off the bottom of the lifter..plus some lube and working the action made a huge difference.

[220swiftfn]

As long as it's not destroying perfectly good (and EXPENSIVE) .44-40 brass, and feels ok cycling, what's not to love?????



Dan