Recommendations for first lever gun dedicated to cast boolits

[45coltnut]

I need your help please,

I'm looking to purchase my first lever gun dedicated for cast bullets. My father has a 45–70 that I've casted some 405 grain lead bullets for and I'm wondering if I should stick with this caliber or try other calibers such as the 38–55 for the 30-30.

My primary objective is to have a lever gun that I can fiddle with and cast bullets for to target shoot and also hunt both deer and hogs. I

've been an avid reloader for the last 20 years, so while I don't know everything I feel very confident in my skills for reloading oddball calibers such as the 38–55. However I've only been casting bullets for around six months or so. But, I feel that I'm doing very well now. Also, I have all the necessary casting and loading equipment such as the Lyman 450 Luber sizer and all the presses and most of the necessary molds.

So, from everyone's experiences here what would be your recommendations for a good all-purpose caliber that's fairly easy for a beginner to cast bullets for and achieve good accuracy and be an all around hunting/shooting gun?

I appreciate all opinions. thank you.

[Outer Rondacker]

Do you cast for .357 or 44 pistol at the moment. If so I would suggest one in either of the two cals. If not then you cant go wrong with 30/30 but in the end its up to you. Others will chim in with better answers I am sure.

[45coltnut]

Yes, currently I'm casting for both 357/38 and 44 mag. Oh and of course the 45-70 as mentioned earlier. But, I'm really wanting to get into casting for rifles. I have a 30-30 single shot and that's my next choice for casting.

[Bullshop]

30/30 is a good place to start for many reasons.

[45coltnut]

I'm leaning towards the 30-30 right now. I've only casted a few for my dads 45-70. But, since I also have my grandfather's 30-30 single shot, I may just go this way.

I have the opportunity to get a nice Win 94 38-55. But, I hear allot about bore variations.

[gwpercle]

It's hard to go wrong with the 30-30 and cast boolits. I have a model 94 30-30, keep thinking about getting 45-70 , 38-55 or 357 mag. But the 30-30 is easy to load for, cases and moulds plentiful so I just keep loading, shooting and fooling with the 30-30. It gets the job done. So I guess if it ain't broke , I should't try and fix it.

Gary

[357Mag]

.45Colt -

Howdy !


My vote.... Marlin M-336 in .35 Rem ........ provided you can find a good one for sale.


With regards,
357Mag

[BCRider]

I take it you've shot your dad's 45-70? If so how did you find the kick? I ask because if you're set up to provide your dad with good boolits already it's worth sticking with one setup instead of having to buy a bunch of other stuff.

I got a single shot rifle a while back in 38-55 and then fell into the whole mess surrounding this caliber. Seems that there are two standards for this round. The early guns, and my barrel, like the smaller .376'ish size boolit. The later lever rifles seem to be set up for .379. And to go along with this there seems to be two different sizes of chambering reamers. So I've got a barrel that was chambered with the larger "new" reamer with a bore that is sized for the smaller "old" boolits.

But if you're going to buy a lever rifle in 38-55 then it's very likely that you'll get the bore that likes the .379's and has the larger size chamber already. But it does also mean that you'll likely need to only partially size the brass so you don't form it down TOO far.

See what I mean about having to work around with the .38-55?

Even the 30-30 seems to run into this to some extent. Some folks are fine with .309 boolits while others with slightly larger bores go with the .312 size boolits. And I've been reading a bit about how they mix and match die parts such as using different neck expanders from .303 British to open the neck for the bigger boolits and other such tricks.

The bottleneck cartridges also tend to want to run faster muzzle speeds. So with cast boolits we either end up running at a lower muzzle velocity or looking at options such as gas checks or paper patching to let us get the boolits back up to the sort of speed that the designers of the cartridge intended. To me this sort of suggests that there's much to be said for sticking with the old straight wall ammo options that were intended for cast boolits and that do well with them. Trading velocity for mass to maintain the power needed for hunting or knocking down those big steel rams. And as a side benefit we avoid those extra steps needed to let the lead fly at the higher muzzle speeds without leading the bore.

Although since you already have a single shot .30-30 it's likely that you want to stick to that. And doing so opens up the idea of using 170's or 180's at up to around 1500fps. Or using gas checks or paper patching to get back up to the "normal" 2000 to 2200fps for this cartridge.

[45coltnut]

BCRider,

I don't mind the kick at all from the 45-70. I actually love big bore guns! I think that's why I'm looking for something different from the 30-30. But, I killed two of the nicest deer of my life last year with it and J- bullets. It was my late grandfathers so there's a ton of emotional meaning behind that gun.

I originally was all set to purchase a 45-70 due to the exact reasons you mentioned, and my love of BIG bores. And then along came this opportunity to buy a Winchester 94 legendary frontiersman rifle with marble tang peep. This is from a production run in 1979. And, WOW what a beauty. But, she's in the 38-55. And, after reading about the exact issues you stated it has questioning this purchase for my longing of a lever style dedicated boolit rifle.

So, I'm still in the "what the heck do I do" scenario. I want the gun, but I don't to spend all year and another $500 on many different items in order I get it to shoot.

[robertbank]

Ummmm I like the 336 Marlin in 30-30 cuz I have one. The Marlins are easier to clean and if you get any leading at all you will appreciate this feature. Too, I put a 4x scope on mine to aid the experienced eyes I am blessed with.

A great little lever to own is either the Marlin in 38/357 or the Rossi in the same caliber. Fun to shoot. With .357 cartridges would be good on deer out to 100 yards. I have a Rossi in 44mag which is a great shooter but for me I had ti install a recoil pad on the gun. Those curved steel butt plates are darn right hurtful with any loads I tried.

[rintinglen]

I like the thirty-thirty. It is versatile, more so than the 45-70. There are oodles of boolit moulds available that work, ranging from 75 up to nearly 190 grains. And there is a wealth of loading information. I traded my Marlin CB 38-55 to my brother for an older marlin 32-40 take down gun. I've 5 30-30's, a 32-20, a 30-40, a .348 and a 45-70 as well. I've had a 35 Rem. But for me, the thutty-thutty is the king of leverguns. More fun than a barrel of monkeys and a lot more useful.

But my number two choice is a .357. I've a Rossi and it is a dandy.

[Outer Rondacker]

I have a marlin in 44mag and could not love it more. Traded a SKS for it years back to some young punk who got all his grandpa's stuff. Need another 357 lever for the wife.

[dverna]

Another vote for the .30/30. It will do everything from light plinkers to deer and bear. Ammo and cases available everywhere and not to expensive.

Don Verna

[BCRider]

From what you wrote in post #11 I'd say that the best way for you to go is get a .30-30. You've already got one rifle you love that uses that round so presumably you're set up for reloading in that caliber already. And the ammo options you develop can then be used in either rifle. Sounds like a win-win all around to me.

You'll just need to try a few things to decide on if you go slow and heavy or fast and light. And if fast and light then you have to decide if you opt for the easier to find gas check options or venture into the world of paper patching.

[pirkfan]

Another vote for 38/357. Fairly easy to come by in either Rossi or Henry, 38 special is just fun to plink with, while 357 mag is potent enough for either hogs or deer.

[Nobade]

I vote for the 32 Win. special. Like a 30-30, but works even better with cast.

-Nobade

[357mags]

30-30win!

[TXGunNut]

45-70 is a great place to start but I've had a ball with the thutty-thutty, 32WS, 35 Rem and the 38-55's hotrod brother, the 375 Winchester. I like the 375/38-55 but feel the other cartridges would be better choices. You've already got a handle on the 45-70, that's as good a reason as any to start there. Fun question is which one is next?

[retiredPO]

Rossi 45 Long Colt. Accruate, once its slicked up, extremely reliable, and a hoot to shoot. A lot of great loads with
bullets from 160 grs. to over 300 grs.... extremely versitle. I have 44 mag rossi, 45 lc.. in Rossi also have 45-70 30-30
and a .58 cal musket ... Hands down.... the 45lc is the go to lever.

[DeanWinchester]

336 in 35 Remington. You will it regret it. All your 38/357 boolits will run great. Then, just pick you up an RCBS 35-200 and you'll be set.

[1Papalote]

My cast shooters are 45 colt, 38/55, 357 magnum (3). All Marlins all shoot well. Working on the 45/70. If I had to choose, it'd be 45 colt.

1Papalote

[Lonegun1894]

I have a .357 Rossi, .357 Marlin (babysitting), .357 Winchester, .44H&R Handi-rifle, .45 Colt Rossi, .45 Colt Winchester, .30-30 Marlin and Winchester, and H&R .45-70, You can't go wrong with any of your choices for your intended purpose. Having said that, the .357 Rossi and the .30-30s are my go-to guns for most things. All the .357s really are great, but I am babysitting the Marlin for a friend so using it VERY little, but it does shoot great. The Rossi 92 feeds pistol cartridges better than the Winchester 94 does just due to action length, so the Rossi gets a lot more range and field time. Also, the Rossi has a 1:30" twist, which allows me to get good accuracy with lightish weight low velocity loads, while also not leading up my bore with full power .357 loads and "Ruger only" .45s, often without GCs. Most of my hunting is inside of 100-125 yds max, and I also bowhunt so tend to hunt the same weather it is a gun or a bow in my hands, so most shots are well under that. To me, the pistol calibers are not a handicap at all, and provide enough power and accuracy to hunt out to about 150 yds, maybe a bit further. The .30-30s get me out to 200-225yds, but that is with a lot of practice both shooting and judging distances because if your range estimation if off, so is your shot placement--but the longer range for my use is more for the places where the landowner has asked me to treat hogs as varmints due to property damage, so I do as asked and take any hog I see within my range instead of trying to get closer for the challenge of it like I usually do hunting. The .45-70, while a great accurate and effective caliber, will eat into your lead and possibly powder supply quick when using it as a plinker. Not saying for you to not do it, because I like the big calibers too, just putting it out as something to keep in mind. I use 10.0 grs Unique in my .45-70 as the plinking load to keep the powder expenses down, and it does great for paper out to 100yds, but have not used it on game past 75yds. It worked well, but it was just a 150# hog and it went clean through, entering the forehead and exiting the left ham. Seemed like a waste of lead to be honest, but I shoot a lot so try to keep it cheap.

[6pt-sika]

My first was a Marlin 1895CB 45-70 followed by just about every cartridge Marlin made a lever action for !

Now I do 444 Marlin only and some 45-70 for a friend .

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've got Marlin's in 45-70, .444, .35 Rem, .30-30 and some others. For most purposes, particularly ease of use, the wide selection of bullets and the ease of finding components and information, the .30-30 is probably the best choice. It has stayed around for many good reasons.

[dragon813gt]

I'm partial to two rifles. Marlin 1894s and Savage 99s. W/ the 99 you can step into more modern cartridges like 308 and 358 Winchester. Same goes for a Browning BLR. I don't mind tube fed as long as its pistol rounds. Having a magazine means you aren't limited to blunt nosed bullets. There is nothing wrong w/ 30-30. But I'm partial to 300 Savage when it comes to 30cal lever actions.

[45coltnut]

Well, I'm pulling the trigger on the Winchester 94 38-55 Legendary Frontiersman. I've just fallen in love with the gun and from all that read I think I can cast /load with ease.

I can this being the beginning to an obsession though :)

[Lonegun1894]

That caliber is one I haven't gotten to play with yet, but seems like it would be very promising. Look at it this way, even if it takes a little work to make it work, when you find the sweet spot, it is that much more rewarding. Congrats!!!

[Nobade]

You'll want to measure the chamber before you order brass. It likely will take the longer ones, and use boolits around .381". But no way to know for sure until you measure everything. Don't assume with that rifle, it can fool you.

-Nobade

[RPRNY]

444 Marlin. A huge selection of great molds, a huge array of loads from mild to scary, and the ability to load soft lead over black powder for a mild kicking hard hitter to harder lead over smokeless for a flat shooting large bore express.

[izzyjoe]

There all great calibers, and have there intended purposes, but if I had to stick with one, it would 30-30! My favorite of all time is the 35Rem.

[TXGunNut]

Well, I'm pulling the trigger on the Winchester 94 38-55 Legendary Frontiersman. I've just fallen in love with the gun and from all that read I think I can cast /load with ease.

I can this being the beginning to an obsession though :)

I think that's an excellent choice, my 375 may as well be a 38-55 because I load it like one. OTOH there are several excellent choices available, hope you enjoy it. Working up a load with the Lyman 375449 was so easy it was almost disappointing.
I'll never admit to being obsessed with leverguns and/or cast boolits but I never truly appreciated leverguns until I began casting boolits for them. The rifle that introduced me to CB's was a Sharps and I've cast for handguns and even a bolt gun but leverguns and cast boolits seem to be made for each other, at least IMHO.

[6pt-sika]

444 Marlin. A huge selection of great molds.
Hmmm that kinda explains my liking the 444 with cast so much ! Think I have somewhere around thirty molds I can use in the 444 .

[OverMax]

Any one of those forementioned. How's that sound.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Get a 30/30 , very good weapon for cast and versatile--110 gr to 200+ plink, target, hunt , eats a lot of different powders well , cheaper to shoot than the larger Cals. IMHO....Jim

[Bagdadjoe]

I'm leaning towards the 30-30 right now. I've only casted a few for my dads 45-70. But, since I also have my grandfather's 30-30 single shot, I may just go this way.

I have the opportunity to get a nice Win 94 38-55. But, I hear allot about bore variations.

If the 38-55 is in good condition and the bore looks good, I'd go with that. They aren't making them anymore. Slug the bore and you'll know what size to size your bullets. It's an easy cartridge to load for and the terminal ballistics are impressive.
I had a 375 Winchester and was able to use 375 and 38-55 brass interchangeably, it worked fine in that gun with my moderate loads. DO NOT load the 38-55 to .375 levels.
If the price of that gun is reasonable I'd go with it. If not then a '92 Rossi in any of the pistol cartridges would work, or the 30-30's are a can't-go-wrong as well. I'm personally looking at the Rossi's..just missed a .45 Colt Saturday in stainless....the same shop has a 44 mag 24" octagon in stock. I may go back up and put it on layaway today or tomorrow.
Here's a nice article..I have another somewhere if I can lay my hands on it.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/38_55.htm

[45coltnut]

Ok guys, here's a picture of the Winchester 94 in 38-55. Sorry, as the pic is a quick copy from the sight I bought it from. But, I now have it in my possession and it is absolutely beautiful. For a gun made in 1979 I'd thought there would be a few blemishes on it. Nope...none at all. I guess the only thing not factory is the extra hole in the tang for the Marbles sight. But its not going to be a safe queen. I plan on shooting and hunting with it...that's why they're made!

I just slugged the barrel and I'm seeing .3795 to .380. Now the problem is where do I get a sizing die of .380-.381? I guess I can always pan lub. But man I wish I could use the lyman sizer/luber! I think for $25 I'll order a .379 sizing die tonight to see what happens. Heck, maybe it will work?[smilie=1:

OH...and a big thank you to everyone that gave me their opinions. I really appreciated getting them all. And, I can see this lever gun thing being an obsession!!

[starmac]

Double sweet. A couple of members here will make you the sizing die of your choice.

[rststeve]

375 win gets my vote

[BCRider]

Have you ever done any lapping? I ask this because it would not be hard to make up a bullet that has a rod tang sticking out of it and use that as a lap to very slightly open up a .379 sizing die to .380 to 381. The lead acts as the lap and you use a very fine lapping compound such as 3000 grit silicon dioxide or possibly jeweler's rouge. Or get some of the coarser JB compounds.

To lap out the die you'd take the "as cast" boolit with the wire rod shank and load the lube grooves with the compound. Then at a SLOW speed run the lap into the die and keep running it back and forth. You want the wear to be a cross hatched pattern with the crossings at something like a 30 to 45 degree angle. So you need to keep moving the lap in and out at a speed fast enough to be in harmony with the turning speed. Or another way is to attach the boolit lap to a "T" handle and do all the lapping by hand.

To remove only a thou isn't that big a deal. And by keeping the lap moving in and out while being twisted back and forth so the lap basically forms a sort of figure 8 style of motion you ensure a nice consistent size from entry to exit.

This is the process I plan on using to get some variation in bullet size for my own development. As such I'll be ordering two or even three sizing dies for .375 so I've got some leeway for goofing up.

Congrats on the new lever rifle. After all that fretting about a new and somewhat confusing caliber you still had to jump in, eh? :D

[45coltnut]

BCRider,

Yep, I'm a sucker for pain and agony :) but I do enjoy the odd ball calibers and guns.

Yes I have some lapping before. Not allot but some. My only concern with lapping a sizing die is the blow thru of luv on the bottom of the plunger. I get this quite abit on my 44 cas bullets and it's just messy. But then again, maybe my lube is just to soft too. Either way, I've got a .379" die coming my way along with dies and all the other paraphernalia that one needs. So, if I get leading then I can try the lapping and see if I can achieve .381".
Thanks for the reply as I hadn't thought lapping the die.

[TXGunNut]

Nice, very nice. Sling swivels and a tang sight make it even nicer. Congrats on a fine-looking rifle.