30-06 collet vs f/l sizing dies usage.

[trixter]

I am starting to shoot my 30-06 a lot more and having a lot of fun with it. I only load for myself and only for one gun, with 150 gr lead RFN. Please tell me (step by step, please) how to use the collet/necksizing die vs the f/l sizing die.

Thanks

[Doc_Stihl]

Collet Neck size die.

Put the shell holder in the ram
Raise the ram up in the press
Screw the size die in until it touches the shell holder
Lower the ram and then screw the die in 2 complete revolutions further.

Run the brass into the die. When the shell holder contacts the collet you are just now starting come in contact with the brass. The amount of pressure you put onto the brass via leverage in the press is different for everyone. My RCBS RC can MASH the neck. My lee C press can't get the job done without strain and it's not repeatable.

The key to getting accurate results is consistency. I run my brass in, try to press down with the same pressure every time. Lower the ram a couple inches, spin the brass 90 degrees in the shell holder and then size one more time.


If you set this up to size at the cam over on a RC press, you can build enough pressure to blow the die apart. I ran one to failure once to see what would happen. Stripped the threads out of the "plug" that holds the internals in. It took quite a bit of work, but it is possible.

[oldfart1956]

Fellers I hope ya'll won't mind me piggybacking on your post. I'm just trying the collet neck sizer out (Lee) for the 30/30 so it's still in the same family. (.30 cal.) What I'm finding is the mandrel that the collet sizes down on is .306 which would be fine for jacketed bullets but not so good for .311 cast boolits. Expanding with the Lyman Multi-Expander takes it back up to where I need for the .311 cast boolits but that's still working the neck more than I'd like. I'm looking to see if I can swap the mandrel and the piece it rides in for one for the .303 British but can't locate said item. Lee offers up an option for smaller mandrels but no mention of larger..for cast boolits. Any ideas? Thanks....Audie..the Oldfart..

[mac60]

Lee does offer oversized mandrels.

http://leeprecision.com/custom-oversized-mandrel.html

[oldfart1956]

Mac thanks for that link! I have a heckuva time navigating their website. They do mention undersized mandrels in the paperwork included with the Ultimate Die series. I'm gonna fiddle around in Titans/Midway/etc. a bit tonight and just see if the mandrels are available for the .303 as that would work. If not...it's off to Lee. Audie...the Oldfart..

[mac60]

You're welcome Audie. Diameter-wise it would be perfect, but don't know if it would length-wise. I have a collet die in .303 Brit., but I don't have one in .30-30.

[Blammer]

What I would do is this.

NOT use the collet sizer. I would use the Full Length sizer to only size the neck.

How to do this:

put shell holder in press, raise ram to the top.

Screw shell holder down until it touches the shell holder. UNSCREW the sizer die one complete turn.

This will give you a small gap between the sizer die and the shell holder. Lock the sizer die in place with the lock ring.

Take a black marker, draw one stripe from the case mouth past the shoulder to the middle of the body.
Lube case appropriately so it doesn't stick and ruin your day.
Run it through the sizer, making sure the decapper is low enough to decap the cartridge.

Once out you should be able to see that MOST of the neck was sized, as the marker will be scuffed or missing.

Thus you are only neck sizing.

[loaded303]

Love my collet dies. Saves wear and tear over full length sizing ESP in bolt actions. I prefer collet neck over f/l die partial sizing. See if I can find a link for you to ck out discussing these sizing procedure dos and dont's, and why's. jmo. Best wishes.
http://www.massreloading.com/reloading_article_index.html

[mac60]

What I would do is this.

NOT use the collet sizer. I would use the Full Length sizer to only size the neck.

How to do this:

put shell holder in press, raise ram to the top.

Screw shell holder down until it touches the shell holder. UNSCREW the sizer die one complete turn.

This will give you a small gap between the sizer die and the shell holder. Lock the sizer die in place with the lock ring.

Take a black marker, draw one stripe from the case mouth past the shoulder to the middle of the body.
Lube case appropriately so it doesn't stick and ruin your day.
Run it through the sizer, making sure the decapper is low enough to decap the cartridge.

Once out you should be able to see that MOST of the neck was sized, as the marker will be scuffed or missing.

Thus you are only neck sizing.

Partial sizing does work. I think that small portion of unsized neck helps with alignment too.

[35remington]

Let's post some badly needed revisions to the instructions posted earlier on how to adjust the LCD.

First, for jacketed bullets, it's not two revolutions after the collet touches the shellholder, it's one revolution further. Test at this setting to see if bullet tension is adequate for jacketed bullets. If it is not, the mandrel may need to be polished down slightly in preference to turning in the die further, which is more than Lee suggests.

Oldfart, an oversized mandrel is not needed for cast bullets if my instructions are followed:

For oversized cast bullets:

The great advantage of the LCD is that it can vary the neck diameter so oversized soft cast bullets are not oversqueezed when inserted in the case neck. To accomplish this, screw the die down until the sleeve hits the shellholder, plus at bit more, say one quarter turn. Size a case. Insert a jacketed bullet and ensure that the fit is still loose, yet somewhat tighter than when the case has been unsized. Now test one of your oversized cast bullets in the case neck, as the idea is to "sneak up on" a bit more than a zero zero fit.

When the cast bullet no longer slides freely into the case with incremental turning down of the die and retesting fit of the bullet, you're quite close. Flare the case mouth with a pair of needlenose pliers or the Lee Flaring Die to admit the bullet heel, and if it still doesn't want to go in freely with firm finger pressure, run the bullet/case through the seating die. Check to ensure the bullet is tight enough not to recede into the case with firm pressure on the bullet.

You have just adjusted it for your diameter of cast bullet. Mark the die's orientation with a piece of masking tape facing you with the edge denoting the correct position at 6:00 on the die body. You may now return to the same position when the die is reinserted in the press.

This eliminates the need for an M die and is actually better than an M die as the M die does not allow for oversized cast bullets in most calibers. All an M die does is flare the neck......it does not prepare the case neck for overlarge cast bullet diameters in most calibers.

Win, Lee Collet Die over M die. All that is needed with a Collet Die is a way to flare the case neck and you're already outpacing a Lyman M die. What is not realized is the M die is intended for jacketed and cast bullets, not just cast bullets. Thus it does not and cannot treat cast bullets as gently as a Lee Collet Die can.

[oldfart1956]

35Rem. some excellent tips on the process...thank you. I just started this little project and have only loaded up a few boxes to piddle with at the range. Weather and time seem to conspire against me constantly. The Lee Ultimate series dies allow me some flexibility on loading and the collet sizing (and crimping) dies have me most curious. I will try all the thoughts/suggestions posted and many thanks to all. Trixter I hope you will allow me to apologize for taking your post so far off target. When time permits I really need to start a post on the 30/30 just to collect such data. Audie...the Oldfart..

[texassako]

I will add one more little bit to what has been said. If you have to exert a lot of pressure on the handle, chuck the mandrel in a drill and take a bit of emery cloth to it. A smaller mandrel needs less pressure to size the neck down, but don't over do it.

Almost forgot, there is a learning curve for repeating the same amount of pull on the handle every time for the collet dies. If I want a very precise neck tension, I use a torque wrench on the bolt head on the opposite side of my Lee press's handle and record the torque necessary to get the amount of neck sizing I want.