Gardone Replica 1874 Sharps

[STP]

A fellow club member is "thinning the herd", and brought his Replica Sharps to our monthly meeting today. I know someone locally that may be interested, so I brought it home with the promise to contact that person.
Problem is, I`m interested as well.
Dunno much about the "replicas" even tho` I have fired a round or two when one showed at the club, including this one.
Here`s the skinny on it:

Manuf.: I.A.B. Gardone- Made In Italy (Stamped on top barrel flat)

Right side is marked: Cape Outfitters Importing-Cape Giradeau. MO

Left side is marked: Cal.45/70 US.GOV.

The browned Octagonal barrel is 29-3/16in long, appx. .970 at the muzzle. It wears a .50 inch Globe front bubble level sight with post insert, and a folding rear sight appx. 3 inches in front of the receiver. Also, a Vernier tang rear sight (Pedersoli marked) 3.5 inch ladder height, adorns the rear tang.
The receiver has the usual case coloring, and sports set triggers. The wood finish looks a little cheesy, but is passable considering it`s heritage. Buttplate also has the case coloring, and is curved, not the preferrable shotgun contour, more flat.
My questions are in regards to it`s lineage. Where does this replica fall in terms of quality, etc.? I don`t shoot BP, but would like to exercise my Gould 330gr HP Lyman mold in this with smokless powder , should it stay here...
I know some of the current replicas are fine examples of the breed, but I have no idea as to this one`s "value". Could I do worse for $550??

[omgb]

IMHO, You'll be better off to avoid that IAB like the plague. Parts are scarce, specs are wide and the barrels are iffy. Pedersoli makes the only really good non-Shiloh or C Sharps or Axtel replica and it costs about 50% more than the IABs did/do. Really, the same is true for Armi..stay away. Just ask over at BPCR board and be ready for all of the negative replies.

R J Talley

[omgb]

One more thing. Most of us have found that the 1-18 twist in these is designed for 450-550 grain bullets. But, IIRC, IAB used a bastard 1-20 twist that would work with lighter bullets but not the traditional bullets.
R J Talley

[longhorn]

I've not owned one of these, but the popular reply to such queries on the various BPCR boards is "IAB = it's always broken." Caveat emptor.

[waksupi]

It's really hard to polish a turd

[KCSO]

Most of the IAB's I have seen were sent out wiht lathe bored chambers that ran from 45-75 to 45-100. They were cut with NO leade and it was a crap shoot. Before I spent any money on one I would want to check it out real close. Also you may have to re harden the lock and trigger parts and the breech blocks are soft steel and not up to smokless loads over 18 20,000 psi. Unless you want it for black powder only and can do the work yourself you should pass on one of these.

[moodyholler]

Triggers are soft as is fly and tumbler and there are no replacements parts. WHen I needed them that is. Had to weld it up with hard filler and c=recut/shape everything. FWIW, moodyholler

[STP]

Yikes!! I`ll finish patching the bore with Ed`s and call the guy.
Thanks for the quick replies..."It`s Always Broken" (I.A.B.) That`ll be easy to remember!

[MGySgt]

I currently have an IAB that started in 45/70.

Was:
Bore size = .459
Throat - too long

Now:
Rechambered to 45/90 with 1.5% lead into the lands
Triggers hardened and recut.

Shoots 430gr GC 75% FP at 1475FPS slightly over MOA can do better on a good day, but 1 1/4 in reproducable on most days.

Stay in side of 3 inch at 175 (that's all my old eyes are good for).

I have learned so much with this rifle that it has been an experience worth going through.

Would I do it again - No. If I had known the 'normal problems' with the IAB I would have run just as fast as I could away from it.

Would I sell it now? I don't really know If I would or not. It is a hoot to shoot and I plan on taking it to CO for Elk next month.

Drew

[Buckshot]

..........Well I have a bit of experience with the IAB made Sharps as I have had one for maybe 7-8 years. From information gathered over the years, and some second hand from the Italian owner of IAB too, plus other users and those besides mine that I've seen :D

These are not all done 'in house' like Pedersoli's are. IAB is like a consortium where one contractor does locks, another barrels, another the action and etc. They are then centrally assembled and finish fitted. Thier quality and appearance have varied all over the landscape for the probable 20 years they've been around.

Cape Outfitters has been out of business for a couple years due to the death of the owner, and they offered these rifles as kits and also finished. EMF sells them (where I got to hand pick mine), Traditions, Dixie and possibly a couple other places. When I bought mine the only chambering for a cartirdge was 45-70 and they also offered the paper cartridge version. Both versions used the same hammer, which was authentic for the 45-70 as conversions had been done and the same hammer was used for both.

These rifles now come chambered in 45-70 and 45-100, plus the paper cartridge version. They have also been offering these rifles with the much cleaner looking (to my eye) 1874 cartridge hammer. They may also be had with real Hartford barrel collars.

I think it's a cafeteria type operation where the importer can get whatever features or finshes they want. At least it appears that way. I've seen a couple that at first were not discernable from a C Sharps production rifle, the fit and finsih were that good. On the strength of the performance of my rifle I had a shooting buddy buy one. His was a 45-70 but it had a browned barrel and action with a blued buttplate.

HIs rifle was not very accurate from the beginning and his set triggers were worthless. The gunshop took the rifle back and got a replacement set, which he was told were as bad as the first. The gunshop did the trigger work and that issue was settled. Accuracy was never very good but this guy wasn't really what you would call as an interested or experimentally inclined shooter. All his cast is commercial, but he didn't seem to get much of any satisfaction and ended up trading it off for a pair of Italian SAA Bisleys.

Now, as to mine I couldn't afford one of the Sharps rifles from either outfit in Big Timber Montana, and I didn't want to wait 5 years for one. I drove down to EMF (I had an 01 FFL) and was ushered in. They had 5 that their in house gunsmith had cleared for sale and all 5 boxed rifles were brought out for me to select from. I though that was right neighborly :D

They all pretty much appeared to be the same with a kind of matte barrel finish (28" straight octagon) with truly dazzeling case colors and a bitchin piece of wood. The percussion-cartridge hammer wasn't very appealing to me but that was the only real negative I saw.

When I got brass and dies and loaded up some ammo it was the absolute pits, and that in spades. Horrid would not be too strong a word for it. Before I forget I should add that the triggers on my rifle were never an issue, They worked like a champ from day one. I tried everything in my bag of tricks to get the thing to shoot accurately.

I finally made a chamber cast and it was way long for a 45-70. Taking the rifle and chamber cast to my gunsmith he said it was a lawyer chamber, but a 45-90 reamer would fix it right up. So I had it re-chambered to 45-2.4". Since then the rifle has been an absolutely brilliant performer. I have asbsolutely zero complaints. I have seen no instance of any of the action parts being soft and I have fired loads from it that were truly above and beyond abusive.

I was talking to Dave Gullo of Buffalo Arms about somehting once and mentioned the IAB and that I had ahd to have it re-chambered to get it to shoot. He said he had one in 45-70 and it was a great shooter. He said as a matter of fact that was the rifle he hunted with. He said people thought it was an old original as he'd carried it so much and in such conditions that it no longer had a shiney spot on it!

I guess it is the luck of the draw as to what a person gets. If you like the way it looks and it's accurate (and the triggers work) the price sounds right. BTW, you can get parts for them from GPC.

...............Buckshot

[longhorn]

Reading this thread, seems to me they're all "kit guns," (with due respect to Gullo's experience, of course.) Incidentally, the wait for a Shiloh Sharps is around 14 months now.

[omgb]

Although I have no idea what your club mate was asking for the IAB let me offer a suggestion. The budget, bottom of the line Pedersoli can be had for right around $900 and change. This is an excellent value. Pedersoli uses broach-cut barrels of match quality. The fit and finish is excellent. While the wood is not as delux as a Shiloh or an Axtel it is better than the walnut-stained hardwood found on a great many rifles today. Pedersoli goes to great length to produce accurate and serviceable rifles. If one wanted to have a more highly finished rifle, Pedersoli offers higher-end specimines beginning at $1,400 all the way up to $2,200. I bought a 45-90 Adobe Walls model for $1,400. I added their Soul sight system for $400 more. That was right at what I would have had to pay for a Shiloh without sights. I've shot my Pedersoli along side of Shiloh and I do as well or better depending on the shooter. The rifle is mechanically the equal in accuracy. So, if you've got the bug but are not inclined to either the wait or the price of a Shiloh, go with Pedersoli.

R J Talley

[9.3X62AL]

Something occurred to me as I skimmed this thread. Single shots like the Sharps and Ruger #1 are indeed "lever rifles"--they just don't feed themselves from a magazine.

[STP]

Deputy Al,
I know, I wasn`t sure of the proper place to place this one...

All,
Thanks for the numerous and varied replies...
A little follow-up history on this particular "Gem"
This rifle has changed hands once at our club. Previous owner corrected issues with the set triggers. Current owner traded for it, and that`s when I had an opportunity to fire it afterwards. Since then, it has resided indoors, and unused, probably for 2 years.
During my "look-see" here, I removed the Pedersoli tang sight, and see the base has been milled on one side, apparently to correct a windage issue. This was one of my early ah-haa`s, better look closely at this one! The next issue noted was that the bubble level front sight was missing the fluid for the level. Hmmm... Maybe I better seek guidance and advice here. Therefore, my original post.
I will have dig out the Cerrosafe and do a chamber cast based on the l-o-n-g chamber comments. Irreguardless of who ends up with this, that knowledge sure will reduce the learning curve!
I have recently accessed a gravel pit with nearly 900yds of range for use on weekends and the extended distance there basically screams 45/70...45/70!!
The "hits" and especially the misses can easily be seen on the bare surface of the pit. (It`s been very dry here this summer) Maybe I can get the OK for a test drive, as is. Certainly would be better to try it first.
As to the Hartford collar, I think this has one. It does have a "ring" forward of the receiver around the barrel, with an indexing mark that is matched position-wise to the receiver.
In the meantime, I`ll call the intended person that may be interested as I promised.
Thanks for your comments...all of them!