New revolver purchase - opinions wanted

[DrCaveman]

Ive been shooting my 460v smith & wesson a bunch. Im finally accepting the fact that light loads are a goofy use of such a beastly revolver, and full-throttle loads are punishing in regards to lead & powder consumption. Medium loads are decent but still not optimal nor practical for a deer hunting backup or finishing load

So im trying to decide between a 45 colt revolver and a 44 special. 44 magnum i do not need nor like, at least in the platforms i have shot it.

Im looking for a 250-270 keith shot around 800-1000 fps with great accuracy and shootability

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The lipseys flattop bisley 44 specials have got my serious attention. Price is pretty decent and availability (according to LGS guy who shoots one) is also present

Pros:
-reputed to be one of the most accurate cast boolit cartidges
-relatively low lead consumption
-relatively low powder consumption
-shines with powders i own, like unique & 2400

Cons:
-i dont have any molds for .429-430"
-i dont have the dies
-single action only
-big-a$$ front sight blade, maybe prone to snag on ???

Other option at the moment is a 45 colt ruger. Would probably prefer Bisley grip but all that is available around here is blackhawk style. This includes the vaqueros and straight blackhawks.

Pros:
-i have dies and molds for 45 calibers guns. Plus brass for 45 colt
-better potential killing power (more weight, velocity, per pressure unit)
-i like 45 caliber

Cons
-harder to find grip and barrel length i want for reasonable price
-potentially weaker design of vaquero limiting potential for hot loads
-non-adjustable sights (vaquero)
-chamber diameter issues


Id like to spend less than $700 on this purchase, and get a sidearm for deer hunting backup. So far, a 6" gp100 with stout 173 grain loads has been my medicine. Id also like to get a fun, accurate, mellow shooting target gun with this purchase. Since shooting more 45 acp and the 460 magnum, i am feeling like 357 is pretty anemic.

Any thoughts based on experience with both cartridges?

Thanks a bunch, good shooting to ya

[Outpost75]

You could do VERY much worse than getting a Ruger. 44 or .45

My hunting gun, when not shooting blackpowder, is a 5-1/2" Ruger Super Blackhawk, with Hamilton Bowen's Rough Country rear sight, Belt Mountain locking base pin, and refitted with steel XR3 grip frame from a Ruger Old Army. Has killed truckloads of game with no issues. Load I use most of the time is Saeco #441 260-grain Keith style, cast 1:30 tin/lead with 7.5 grs. of Bullseye for 1050 fps. My jacketed load is the Remington 240-gr. SJHP with 8.4 grs. of Bullseye for 1125 fps.

Works for me.

I also have Blackhawk 4-5/8" convertible revolvers in both the. 357/9mm and. 45 Colt / ACP set up the same way.

Any of them work. Could sell every other handgun that I own and keep those three and would be happy.

I would like to see them make a 5-1/2," six-shot .327 with extra 7.62x25 Tok cylinder built on the .44 frame, which could be hell for strong to handle the hot loads, but could also use the .32 S&W Long and H&R Mag for bunny poppers.

[DrCaveman]

Please let me add to the parameters: barrel twist rate. This is something i neglected to consider when choosing my 460 s&w magnum, but have grown to appreciate due to considerate/considerable influence from such members as 44man and Whiterabbit

I think ill make my current gun work, but, truth be told, i may be willing to part with the 460V if a good 480 ruger with 1:15 came available for trade. Or, i just save up and get them both :)

6" or less barrel is part of my requirement for this purchase

Outpost, you are speaking my language...that is 45 colt, right?

[oscarflytyer]

This is TOO EASY, IMHO! My EASY, and $$$ answer, straight from my safe... One each... Ruger Flattop Blackhawks, 4 5/8" bbls. 1x in 44 SPC, and 1x in 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible.

Love both mine. Carry wonderfully. ~250 cast at ~900-1050 fps. easy to moderate recoil. Hoot to shoot. SA. What more could you ask for!

ymmv....

[Jupiter7]

Get the stainless bisley blackhawk in 45 colt. They are available on gunbroker for less than your price ceiling. If you wanna load hot, the option is still there. Brass for the 45 seems to be more readily available.

[DrCaveman]

Ok, i should clarify that i really dont like the stndard blackhawk grip. Looking for bisley, or redhawk style

Thanks for input so far. Hoping for comparisons between 44 spl flattop and 45 colt version of same. Preferably, there are enthusiastic shooters of both, who could contribute unbiased reviews

But ill take what input i can get. Please tell me about make & model

[DrCaveman]

This is TOO EASY, IMHO! My EASY, and $$$ answer, straight from my safe... One each... Ruger Flattop Blackhawks, 4 5/8" bbls. 1x in 44 SPC, and 1x in 45 Colt/45 ACP convertible.

Love both mine. Carry wonderfully. ~250 cast at ~900-1050 fps. easy to moderate recoil. Hoot to shoot. SA. What more could you ask for!

ymmv....

Oscar

Of course my question is: are they bisleys? If so, which one would you pick if you had to?

I dont think that BOTH are in budget right now. Gonna have to choose. Availability will end up being a factor surely

[Groo]

Groo here
Are you sticking to single actions?
IF SO a 45 colt or 44 spec will be nice , but the 44spec will be easer to get to group well.
If a double action, or single may I suggest a 41mag.
If loaded with a 210 /220 gr bullet at 900 most easy to shoot, at 1200/1300 will hit very hard.
I have yet to find one that did not group well.
Ps , I like the 41 so much that I had Andy Horvath make me 2 on the New Vaquero [ 357/50th an] frame.
They are the size [about] of a colt single action and " shoot flat like a357 but hit hard like a 44mag"

[Outpost75]

....Outpost, you are speaking my language...that is 45 colt, right?

Mine is a BN44X 4-5/8" .45 New Model Blackhawk convertible. I have and use BOTH the .45 ACP and .45 Colt cylinders.

99442

This is a test run using the H&G#68 SWC in the .45 ACP cylinder. Not as good as a Clark Long Slide, but certainly acceptable.

[jlchucker]

You could do a lot worse than choosing a 44 special Blackhawk with the 4 5/8 barrel. I bought one last year, and it's my favorite walking-around revolver.

[Hickok]

.44 special would be a dandy. My .44 mag hunting loads are simply hot .44 special loads, .44 special +P in reality. I load a 250 gr bullet to about 1250fps. out of my .44 mags. This would be a doable load in a .44 special Blackhawk.

And the 250-270 gr 45 colt load you mention is easy to achieve in the .45 Colt Blackhawk.

Get one caliber for now, and plan on getting the other caliber as another project later on!

I went the 300-325 gr route for awhile in both calibers, .44 and .45, but the recoil took ALL the fun out of shooting. My hands actually hurt after shooting these loads. I went back to the above mentioned loads, as they will stop anything that walks in the woods.

[AlanF]

I recently made the decision and have a Lipsey's Ruger Flattop Bisley in 44 Special on order via Long Hunter Shooting Supply. There are some excellent articles available online regarding these revolvers.

[3leggedturtle]

A Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with 4 5/8" barrel. Shooting the Lee 255grRNFP at a chronoed 850-950fps is a nice load that kicks just enough to be enjoyable. Tho if new, the plasctic checkering needs to be smooth out a bit.

[Whiterabbit]

Your choice is obvious, the 45 Colt. You are tooled for it already, the swap is easy.

You COULD buy a Blackhawk, BUT frankly, fixed sights are NOT a con, they are a pro. You find your bullet, you find your load, you file the sight, and you have a working man's gun. If you want a fiddler's project, you already have one. If you trade out, the biggest pro is that you can stop fiddling.

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OR, you trade the 5" barrel for a long barrel 460 so you have more wiggle room making the 400 and 500 grain bullets work.

OR, you trade the 5" X-frame for a BFR which is what you should have bought in the first place ;)

[robertbank]

I wouldn't pass on an Uberti Cattleman in 45 Colt either. The SAA is lighter than the Ruger, fit and finish will likely be better with the Uberti from my experience and they just are a fun gun. I also have the Lipsey Convertible. After reaming out the cylinders on both the 45Colt and 45acp cylinder the gun is now accurate. The Ruger is notably heavier though if that is an issue. The Uberti will handle the loads you are suggesting.

Take Care

Bob

[detox]

You would be happiest with a S&W 686. The 357 magnum uses way less lead and is very accurate with powders you have. My 686 likes round nose flat point bullets best.

[DrCaveman]

Thanks for all the enthusiastic input!

Whiterabbit, you are probably right on all three suggestions: 45 colt because of tooling & brass, longer s&w 460 barrel to make better use of the cartridge...and yeah, the BFR may have been a better choice...but it wasnt available, and i really really like my x frame! Theres a bit of pride involved here too... I dont want to be that jerkoff who bought a gun he "couldnt handle" and then sold it back a few months later.

Honestly i am thinking of a 480 ruger/475 linebaugh BFR if i can find one. If that panned out maybe it replaces the 460. But for now, i am planning to ADD to the collection, not swap. Hell, what is money anyway except a means to acquire more guns? Aint doing squat sitting in the bank

Detox, your point is well taken inasmuch as i was inspired by the introduction of an L-frame 44 by s & w. However i already have a great 6" gp100 as well as a 4" model 19-3, so im not lacking in 357 options with excellent carry-ability


Now im leaning toward the 5.5" barrel bisley vaquero. I know i have heard several owners of this gun mention it, and i would appreciate any feedback as to why it would be a better purchase than the lipseys 44 special. BOTH WITH BISLEY GRIP.

At this point, the hunt is on (since there arent any edible animals for me to legally shoot right now...except maybe turkeys, gotta check) for the bisley vaquero and if the price is right, ill probably pick her up.

Much appreciate all the advice so far

[Whiterabbit]

I know what you mean. I'm thinking 500JRH or 500 Linebaugh, but not feasible. I'm thinking much the same as you are too. Maybe trade out for two rugers, an old vaquero and new Blackhawk, both 45 colt. Maybe one day ill have the cash to send the Blackhawk to a real pistolsmith and have a custom. But I've been going so many directions in my thoughts I dunno whats right or best anymore.

Good luck finding your bisleys. I much prefer the plowhandle, myself.

[44man]

I am the worst guy to ask because recoil does not bother me and I hate Bisley grips with a passion.
The .460 was made for lighter bullets and very long ranges and it really does well.
The .44 SP and the .45 Colt are great too.
Never leave out the .44 mag, my second best deer gun after the .475 BFR.
The very best .44 is the Ruger Hunter in 7-1/2" for a pure hunting gun but it sounds like you want a carry gun. ( the 10" SRH is deadly too.)
You need to determine what the gun will be used for and if a lighter carry, the .44's and .45 will do it. You can download the .44 mag.
The OP seems to read the Bisley is best for recoil and it has never proven out. It was made for one hand, off hand shooting with light target loads. It is very sensitive to hold and can hurt your middle knuckle. I owned one for two weeks!
Then the OP mentions the .475 BFR, the best darn deer killer ever but the recoil is a thing of beauty compared to the .44 mag he does not like. That confuses me! The very last thing I would want is a .475 Bisley! The hog leg is best and has a fierce recoil with torque. A Bisley is a two shot gun after pain. I still can shoot 100 rounds from the BFR .475 hog leg in a session.
If a guy can't take a .44 mag, stay away. It will make the big .460 S&W look like chicken soup.

[habba8]

I'm a strong advocate for the 44spc.
Especially with the Lee gas check boolit.
Several options, all good too.

[Earlwb]

One wild thought is the .480 Ruger. Although one can get factory made ammo for it, it is more practical to just reload for it. But the .480 Ruger recoil felt effects are about 25% less than a .44 magnum. But it heaves a huge heavy bullet downrange really well. Plus it gets lots of penetration when using heavy bullets too. Unfortunately most everyone tended to turn their nose up at it.

But then with the S&W .460, couldn't you just shoot .45 Colts out of it or .454 Casul's?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

did you think about a Ruger B/H in 41 magnum :-P

[Bigslug]

If you're looking to load them soft anyway, there's really not a lick of difference between them except logistics.

When looking at .44 and .45, while already having a GP-100 (which can solve A LOT of problems all by itself) in the arsenal, the whole ".44 uses less lead and powder than the .45C" argument doesn't hold a lot of water. If you're looking for cheap, stuff that starts with a 4 is not the way to go. That's kind of like asking what's the most fuel efficient big-block V8. Also not helping that you have to get a whole 'nother set of dies, molds, brass, etc... for it.

Get a Blackhawk convertible with a .45ACP cylinder. Both cylinders can use bullets from the ACP mold, and you've got your ACP cylinder to dispose of your less reliable ACP loading errors.

[Doc Highwall]

I bought a Talo special Ruger Alaskan Toklat in 454 Casull that has a 5" barrel.

[Dale53]

I have a couple of Ruger .44 Special Flattops. They are superb revolvers and will easily handle heavy hunting loads (250 gr. Keith at 1200 fps) or my nominee for perfect field load in a .44 Special (250 gr. Keith ahead of 7.5 grs. of Unique for 950 fps). They carry well and are accurate (well under 1" at 25 yards off a rest).

On the other hand, the Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible I have is probably YOUR best bet since you already have the dies, etc. I did have to ream both cylinders (they were undersize and the .45 Colt leaded terribly in just a few rounds and I couldn't even chamber my cast bullet reloads in .45 ACP). After I reamed both cylinders with a Manson "Made for the task" reamer kit complete with pilots, all problems vanished! Either cylinder will shoot well under 1" at 25 yards off a rest. Since this is the large frame Ruger, really HEAVY loads are a possibility, also (if that is important). I shoot more of the .45 ACP's than I do Colts but the .45 Colt with an RCBS 45-270-SAA bullet (285 grs. in my alloy) is a REAL hunting handgun.

I would NOT consider a fixed sighted gun. Basically, you are limited to only one load. If you can live with that, then OK. However, with the convertible and adjustable sights, the sky is the limit.

I have a Ruger Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt. It is a dandy revolver but is limited to one load (in my case, a Lyman 452664 which is a 250 gr. RF) with either Black Powder or smokeless equivalent (900+ fps). Ruger does have good fixed sights and this IS a practical field revolver, no doubt about that. I got lucky with my Ruger Bisley Vaquero as the revolver shot to the sights (center hold at 25 yards) right out of the box.

FWIW
Dale53

[Frank46]

Could look for a S&W 624 stainless with 4" bbl in 44 special. I have one with the 6.5" barrel in 44 special and with the winchester 200 grain factory ammo it's like shooting a big 22. Or you could look for a S&W 24-3 with 4" bbl but you're gonna look hard cause they only made about 1200 to 1500 of them and those that have them don't seem to be in a hurry to let go of them. The 24-3 is also in 44 special. Frank

[bigboredad]

The ruger .480 is a wonderful caliber in a BFR the twist is right for heavy bullets at 900-1000 and beyond (I use my srh for bowling pins at 650fps) the BFR is heavy enough but not to heavy. I had mine cut to 5.5 it balances so much better. I would prefer the .480 to a .44 mag any day of the weak it is by far my favorite caliber and the 45 colt is way up on the list but I prefer the .480 it can be as wild or mild as you wish it to be. The BFR can still be had at reasonable prices on the used market