7.62x39 in Ruger Hawkeye Compact

[Hickok]

Being a laid off coal miner I have had time to pursue some of my projects. I thank the Good Lord for that, as it helps the frame of mind.

Would like to report my results with a Ruger M77 Hawkeye Compact in 7.62x39. This is a dandy little rifle, if you see one buy it! Mine has a 16" barrel, and the rifle is light as a feather. I mounted a Burris 2-7x scope with the Ruger rings. This shooting is done with the rifle as-is right out of the box, no tuning or tinkering with bedding, trigger etc.

Lee ctl 312-160 2r ACWW, Lyman gas check, (all I have at the time)
Winchester cases, CCI rifle primer.
Boolit seated to canelure. Tumble lubed with LLA/JPW/mineral oil

Pact 1 Chronograph

19 gr./ Imr 4198/ Lee 312-160 boolit 1685fps @ 60 degrees

20 gr. /Imr 4198/ Lee 312-160 boolit 1749fps @ 60 degrees

The 20 gr load of 4198 is the one I settled on. 1 3/8" group for 3 shots @ 100, and 2" group for 5 shots @ 100 yards. I had gusting wind at 18 mph on and off coming from the left. Also this lttle rifle is extremely light, and you really have bear down on the bench as it jumps around at the shot.

99357

[Hickok]

Also I slugged the bore of the Ruger Hawkeye and it .3103" groove diameter. I used a Lee .314 push through sizer to seat my gas checks, but this is not working to suit me. The boolits are dropping out of the mold at .3125-.313" and sizing the gas check to .314", when I seat the boolits in the case, neck tension is lacking. With a little effort I can turn the boolit in the case with my fingers. I have been applying a slight crimp, so the boolits wont seat back in the case. The bolt action Ruger feed the rounds without any problem.

I think I need to get a .312" sizing die for my Lyman 450, and that should help the neck tension. Open to any advice or information, tips, etc any of you casters may have on this problem.

[Hickok]

Excess, I think I have found a solution to the loose boolit fit. I tryed seating the boolit out a little longer, putting the gas check more out in the neck of the cartridge. Bullet tension is now very good, can't move or turn the boolit. I was seating the bullet to the crimp groove, and this puts the gas check nearly out of the case neck into the powder space. Just the way the boolit is designed to work through an AK and for crimping.

Seating out longer will work, as the round feeds well through the bolt action Ruger. I still think I am going to get a .312" sizing die for my 450, and try some rounds and check for accuracy. We cast boolit shooters are never satisfied!

Thanks for the info on the Lee C 309-150F, sounds like it would be a good hunting boolit in the 7.62 Short. The as cast diameter would be perfect.

[Hickok]

Thanks for the advice, excess650.

[Larry Gibson]

Hickok

My 7.62x39 bolt gun is the Mini Mk X. You might add 2% tin to your COWWs for a bit better alloy and slightly higher BHN. For 150+ gr bullets in my rifle I use the Lee C312-155-1R and a GB 312-150-WFN similar to the RD if not the same(?). I've found 4895 to give the best accuracy and velocity with either cast bullet. H4895 is the better as I can get 28 gr under either bullet.

Larry Gibson

[lotech]

Appears you're on the right track. Using a light rifle and cast bullets on a windy day, initial groups look good. I've had good results with IMR4198 with a similar NEI version of your bullet in a Ruger bolt-action. I haven't loaded cast bullets in 7.62x39 in a good while, but if I were to do it again, the suggested H4895 would be worth trying. 2230 and 1680 shot well with the same NEI bullet, but can't recall whether either was any more accurate than IMR4198.

[Hickok]

This is a picture of the boolit when seated to the canelure, showing the gas check position, and the second round is showing my seating to keep gas check in the neck for more tension. Thanks you all for the help. I am going to start tuning a little bit with seating depth and powder charges up and down, and try and tighten the groups. I started at 17 gr of IMR 4198 and worked up, a half a grain at a time. At 19 and 20 grains the groups started snugging up. I have some of the powders you guys listed and will give them a go.

This rifle is so light and short, it takes a little different technique off the bench than I am used too!99436 The case on the left that is cut is a Russian steel case for the purpose of demonsration only, I didn't want to cut a good brass case!

[Hickok]

Forgot to add, no leading at all, bore wipes out with a patch.:D

[emorris]

How big is the expander on your resizer die? I cannot see how sizing your bullet in a smaller sizing die will help increase neck tension, but I may have mis read somthing in the above posts. I would start polishing down the expander first. You have no leading now, but what about when you size the boolit smaller?

[Hickok]

I really thank youguys for taking the time to help out.

My mistake was assuming to presume. Just thought I would seat the boolit to the crimping groove, which is the last tumble loob groove toward the point. Homer Simpson moment, "Duh!!"

Excess you are exactly right in your thoughts. I took it for granted that the gas check would be in the neck, that was another mistake, as it is below the neck when seated to the last crimp groove, which wold be fine if the entire and boolit was sized to the same diameter, say .312" or .313 etc.

When I saw that Lee push through sizers did'nt have the exact diameter that I wanted, a .312", as my bore is .310", I opted for the larger .314".

I am going to try some groups with the various longer seating depths, and see what happens. the boolit is good and snug now with the gas check seated in the neck, and the groups are pretty good for a light carbine, but I know they can be made better!

Then if needed, I will get a .312" sizer for my Lyman 450 and give it a try, as I would like to try some other boolits in the rifle, namely the Lee C312-1552R and the Lee C309-150F, and sizing and lubing can be done well with the Lyman 450.

[Hickok]

I got a Lyman .312" sizer for my Lyman 450 and made up some loads sized to .312". They do indeed shoot better, at least with 3 shot groups, as I had to hurry, the rain was fast approaching. The rain did end the shooting session, but I was happy with the groups.

3 shots at 50 yards about the size of a dime, and 3 shots @ 100 yards went into 7/8th of an inch.

I will try and post pics later.

[Mk42gunner]

Sounds like much better groups.

I am going to have to get a mold in the 150-160 grain range for my Mini-Mauser.

Robert

[Hickok]

Well I hate that I even posted about shooting 3 shot or 5 shot groups now after just reading another posting.

Oh well, just as long as I can put the first boolit through a groundhogs head or coyotes shoulder is all that matters.

[DrCaveman]

Aw heck, 3 shot groups are a good start! I was just doing some reading about statistical anomalies warranting the use of 10 shot groups for setting your scope's zero and finding your "true" group size with a given load/rifle combo. Point is, dont start adjusting your zero until you test with longer boolit strings.

Great thread! Now im gonna have to try that long seating in my cz 527. And h4895 powder. Thanks for the discussion

Any of you guys have much success using AA 1680 behind the lee 160? A bit faster than ideal?

[Prospector Howard]

You're the only other person I've seen that's owned one of those Mini Mark X's in 7.62x39 besides me. I bought it (ordered it through the LGS) in early 90's without realizing how small it was. Never could get used to that little bolt and always felt uncomfortable shooting surplus ammo in it (that's what I got it for). Just looked up the paperwork, sold it in 2001. If you bought it used and the last 3 numbers of the serial number are 779, I'm going to laugh.
Hickok

My 7.62x39 bolt gun is the Mini Mk X. You might add 2% tin to your COWWs for a bit better alloy and slightly higher BHN. For 150+ gr bullets in my rifle I use the Lee C312-155-1R and a GB 312-150-WFN similar to the RD if not the same(?). I've found 4895 to give the best accuracy and velocity with either cast bullet. H4895 is the better as I can get 28 gr under either bullet.

Larry Gibson

[Hickok]

PropectorHoward, I am glad you posted Larry's quote. I use alot of 4895 in my M1A and .308 rifles. Going to 4895 in the Russian Short would help logistics,I can just buy an 8 pound keg.

Sometimes I overlook the obvious, and then it is like a light bulb comes on!:idea:

Larry gives good, solid info and advice, as do many others here!

[wcavasos]

I have the same rifle chambered in 6.8 SPC and love it! It's very accurate with the RCBS 27-130-FN both sub and supersonic. For my subsonic loads I dont check or size the bullet and just tumble lube with 45-45-10. For my supersonic I size/check/lube with saeco lube. Both are very accurate and I get no leading. This is by far my favorite centerfire rifle. I can't wait to get the new 6.8 group buy mold for it!
.

[wcavasos]

102013

Here is a pic of mine. It has a 2x7 leupold vx-r scope on it and an old leather sling I found at a gun shows years ago.

[Jacko.357]

I have just started Casting for the 7.62x39 and had a Lee 312185 and then bought a C 312-1552R Mould. I have a Baikal IZH18 7.62x39 Single Shot, a fine little Rifle. I noticed the lack of neck tension with the 185 gr Projectile. I had a .310 Sizing Die that I polished out to .312. A Lee RGB Die Set came with the Rifle which would not size the full length of the neck which I attributed the poor Neck Tension to.

Ended up buying a set of Lee Collet Die's, Lee Factory Crimp Die and for the heck of it a .314 Sizing Die. The Collet Die's are brilliant as you can mess with the adjustment and tailor the Squeeze you put on the Case Neck and control Neck Tension. I use a Lee Universal Case Expander and adjust the FCD just enough to remove the Case Flair. I seat the .314 Sized 312-155 and Gator Gas Check to the top of the last Lube Groove. The Gas Check is below the Case Neck but rides high in the Shoulder. I found 21 gr of ADI AR2207 [ Hodgdon 4198 ] returns the tightest groups for my Rifle

I'm becoming a great Fan of the 7.62x39 and as Fond as I've grown of the Baikal I read enough good things about Bolt Action 7.62x39's I want one of them too !

regards Jacko

[nekshot]

I am becoming very fond of this cartridge in my bolt gun for cast. I do wish we had a boolit like the 7mm soup can in a proper configuration for the 7.62x39 and it would weigh around 140 grains.

[Hickok]

Jacko, the Lee collet neck die sounds like a really good idea. I truly like the 7.62x39 with cast boolits.

[sawzall]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?237759-Loverin-311466-two-cavity-55-mold This one looks interesting, and it's only $55 for a 2 cavity. I'm thinking a .314" for use in my Zastava mini mauser in 7.62x39. It's a nice little rifle but I just got it and have not fired a single round out of it yet! She slugged @ .3105" so hopefully, I have a few molds to work with. 311041, NOE SC311-165-RF, Lee C312-160-2R and I just ordered a Lee C312-185-1R. They all drop .312" or larger for me so hopefully, she likes them!

[Hickok]

I just got done working up another load for another cast boolit, the Lee C312-185 1R. I took Larry Gibson advice and used IMR 4895 and working up, found 23 gr./Imr 4895 shoots great. It actually shoots to same point of impact as my Lee 160 gr load, so that was an unexpected bonus.

The boolit has to be seated deep to function through then Ruger magazine, but the gascheck is just at the shoulder/neck line, so it is alright.

I wont post my groups, as some seem to get verbally abusive on this subject.

You know, I can shoot 15 or 20 rounds working up a load, then shoot a couple of 3 and 5 shot groups and tell if a load is going to lead severely or shoot well. I can see no sense in getting nasty about how many shots a person shoots with a given load.

[sawzall]

I just got done working up another load for another cast boolit, the Lee C312-185 1R. I took Larry Gibson advice and used IMR 4895 and working up, found 23 gr./Imr 4895 shoots great. It actually shoots to same point of impact as my Lee 160 gr load, so that was an unexpected bonus.

The boolit has to be seated deep to function through then Ruger magazine, but the gascheck is just at the shoulder/neck line, so it is alright.

I wont post my groups, as some seem to get verbally abusive on this subject.

You know, I can shoot 15 or 20 rounds working up a load, then shoot a couple of 3 and 5 shot groups and tell if a load is going to lead severely or shoot well. I can see no sense in getting nasty about how many shots a person shoots with a given load.

Personally, if the rifle I'm shooting only holds 3 rounds, I'm ok with 3 round groups. Same if it holds 4, 4 round groups or 5 round groups if it holds 5. I like the 1 shot groups my Handi Rifles shoot! ;) To be honest, I could post any image of groupings I Want on the internet and claim them to be what ever I want so I really don't see why people get so bent out of shape over the subject. If your methods work for you, that's really all that matters! Who cares what armchair snipers and mall ninjas think!

[slughammer]

I wont post my groups, as some seem to get verbally abusive on this subject.


Please post them anyway. We see this board is about sharing. This is your thread, you took the time to start it and share your results. It's your rifle, your scope and you on the bench; when you pull the trigger, you can tell how many shots it takes to call it a group.

[Old Coot]

Personally, if the rifle I'm shooting only holds 3 rounds, I'm ok with 3 round groups. Same if it holds 4, 4 round groups or 5 round groups if it holds 5. I like the 1 shot groups my Handi Rifles shoot! ;) To be honest, I could post any image of groupings I Want on the internet and claim them to be what ever I want so I really don't see why people get so bent out of shape over the subject. If your methods work for you, that's really all that matters! Who cares what armchair snipers and mall ninjas think!
I couldn't agree with you more Sawzall, there are always more talkers and posers than doers.
Brodie

[Mk42gunner]

My feelings are that if you are satisfied with the size and number of shots in your group, that is all that is important.

Personally, I get bored shooting long strings at the same paper target. I like to verify my sights on paper, but I get just as much fun if not more by plinking at cans, dirt clods and other targets of opportunity.

Robert