Mold suggestions for .45 Colt

[Petrol & Powder]

A co-worker just obtained a Blackhawk with 2 cylinders (45 Colt & 45 ACP). He's set for 45 ACP but looking for a good all around load for the 45 Colt cartridge.
Back in my 45 Colt Blackhawk days I was hand loading but not casting. I remember the 240-255gr bullets being the common choices for that cartridge.

I was thinking about suggesting the RCBS 255gr SWC plain base. Is that a good all-around bullet for the 45 Colt and what's a good powder/load for that same cartridge?

Thoughts?

[Trey45]

My 3 favorite boolits for 45 Colt are the RCBS 255 SWC you mentioned, Mihecs 270 SAA SWC, and Lee's 255 RNFP. You'll find Lee detractors, I don't care. They work fine for me and have never let me down.

Unique is my powder of choice, anywhere from 7 to 8.5gr. depending on bullet weight.

[Irascible]

Yes, that and the RCBS 270gr SAA. I use 10gr of HS6 for a friendly load and 20 gr of 4227 for a "hotter load" both with a standard LP primer.

[Bullshop Junior]

My favorite two are the idea copy of the original, and the 300gn lee.

[Bohica793]

NOE 454424 255gr SWC

[Walter Laich]

depends on what your (his) goals are. I used to shoot 250 gr RNFP but with age and wear and tear on wrists I've dropped back to 200 gr bullets in either RNFP or SWC. Lessens the sting on recoil. Course I'm cowboy shooting and not trying to drop grizzles at 200 yards :)

[Petrol & Powder]

Thanks, good info.

Any recommendations for a starting point for a sizing die?

[Char-Gar]

Any of the Keith 250 - 260 grain clones will do just fine. For something a little heavier then the RCBS 270 SAA or it's clone.

For the nominal bullet weight (250 -260 grains) then a powder charge of 8.5/Unique or 6.5/Bullseye. In a Ruger BH a sizing diameter of .452 will be what you want.

[osteodoc08]

RCBS 270 SAA is one of my favorites. I've got several loaded up to mid levels with HS-6. I use it in my Marlins, my Mountain Gun and my Rugers.

[.5mv^2]

I shoot paper with my 45 Convertible. Shoot a Lee 160 RNFP at about 1000fps. Personally I don't like a lot of recoil with the shape of the grip and small trigger guard.

[DougGuy]

A LOT of fans of the Lee C452-300-RF on here too, it's their heavyweight hunting boolit. Tell your buddy to be sure and check his cylinder throat diameters, a lot of the Rugers tend to run on the tight side, which can be a detriment to cast boolit shooting and enjoying.. Most need reaming/honing to .4525" to shoot cast accurately and without leading. I have the reamer for this and use it to do my own cylinders and also do this for others from time to time.

Lee C452-300-RF

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/b0365352-e008-4573-ae2e-859b8a99fe82_zps7c72c5cb.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/b0365352-e008-4573-ae2e-859b8a99fe82_zps7c72c5cb.jpg.html)

[Trey45]

Just my 2 cents here, but I think saying a lot need reaming is an unfair statement. I have 3 Ruger 45 Colts, a Redhawk, a Flattop Blackhawk convertible and a New Model Blackhawk convertible. None need reaming and none have given me leading issues. I can only base my opinion on my 3. Maybe I got lucky and got 3 in a row that don't need reaming and don't lead. Slugged all 18 chambers and none are undersize. It's still a good idea to slug the chambers just in case they're undersize. I am unaware of a known undersize issue with their 45 Colts though.

Ruger did have a known undersize problem with their 9mm cylinders for their 357/9mm convertibles and Security Six/Speed Six revolvers. I believe .351 was their average cylinder throat reading.

[Bullshop Junior]

I have your boolits cast up Doug. Just waiting for a sizer.

[308w]

RCBS 270 SAA is a fine boolet in 45 colt. I shot lots over 12.0 AA5 for around 1050 or so out of a Ruger New Model Blackhawk, It shot better than me, would make a good gong sound on the 200 yard steel plate....

[Bob Busetti]

The cylinder throats on my 1976 model Blackhawk all measure .453, acp throats measure .4515 - .452.
Bob

[Petrol & Powder]

Any of the Keith 250 - 260 grain clones will do just fine. For something a little heavier then the RCBS 270 SAA or it's clone.

For the nominal bullet weight (250 -260 grains) then a powder charge of 8.5/Unique or 6.5/Bullseye. In a Ruger BH a sizing diameter of .452 will be what you want.

Solid, Thanks

[DougGuy]

Trey, a good number of posts on our board relate to throats on the .45 caliber cylinders that won't accept a .452" boolit from the front with finger pressure. They are quite inconsistent too, some are like yours and don't need nothing, and others are so tight a .451" jword has trouble being forced into the cylinder throat. It really depends on luck for all I can figure, but the common denominator with Rugers, is the larger the caliber, the more likely you will find inconsistencies in cylinder throats, AND some constrictions where the barrels thread into the frame. This is due to the larger calibers being thinner, in both barrel wall thickness, and cylinder wall/web thickness. The .44 seems to be much more consistent than the .45, even that slight amount of difference in barrel thickness appears to affect the threaded part less on the .44 than on the .45 calibers.

Some of their convertibles suffer but this is different SAAMI specs causing that instead of production variations. The 44-40 / .44 Magnum convertibles being quite different cylinder dimensions in the first 3yrs of production, then Ruger saw the light and made the 44-40 cylinder with .430" throats. I haven't owned the .357 / 9mm convertible but as SAAMI specs for both those cartridges differ, so will cylinder dimensions.

I'm not beating down on Ruger by any means, and none of this is meant in a derogatory fashion at all, I am a solid fan of their firearms, they just need to be looked over and possibly addressed in certain areas to bring out their best. No biggie, it comes with the territory of a production revolver made to be affordable. I just got done with a cylinder from a S&W 625-5, it was the single most consistent set of .451" cylinder throats I have ever measured. And smoother than a baby's butt inside! it was a work of ART! Beautiful in ever way! But how much more did it cost over a Ruger? Nuf said.

Thanks for the heads up Bullshop ;)

[Petrol & Powder]

10-4, this guy is an excellent marksman but new to reloading/casting. I don't want to overwhelm him but rather just get him started on with a good baseline load/bullet.

[Bullshop Junior]

10-4, this guy is an excellent marksman but new to reloading/casting. I don't want to overwhelm him but rather just get him started on with a good baseline load/bullet.

If he would like to try the 300gn lee rf i have the mold and could make a few. Good thing about lee molds is that they are rather cheap.

[Wally]

I tried a wide variety in my Ruger Blackhawk. The RCBS RNF and SWC didn't work well for me. The Lyman 454190 & 452424 were very good... However I found the Lee 252 SWC & 255 RNF are also very good, so I use them the most. Many like the 270 SAA RCBS..I never tried it. Seems to me a slightly lighter bullet is good enough.

[Moonie]

I really like the 300gr Lee in my convertible. Yes, I did have to ream the cylinders, I got it in late 2012 if I remember correctly, they were all tight (all 12).

I've used the Lee 200gr SWC, the Lee 230gr TC, the Miha 200gr HP and the lee 300gr. With 45 Colt my preference is the 300, it is very accurate as well.

[geargnasher]

No flies on the Lee 255RFN, it's a great shooter. All my SAA revolvers like them crimped in the top lube groove, but they won't feed through repeating rifles that way. My favorite is the Accurate 45-255C but I might go with the 250Y next time just to get a full-diameter nose base. As a side note, the 45-255C works dandy in the .45 ACP cylinder I have for an Uberti SAA clone, enabling same POI for either cylinder. It shoots a titch low with 230's or lighter in the ACP, but YMMV.

As for Ruger, I own several and if the cylinders didn't need reaming, the barrels did and the forcing cones were terrible. I really like the guns, rock solid and comparatively inexpensive, but I expect they may need some fine-tuning for cast boolits when I buy one.

What rips me a new one is buying a new S&W for $1050 and finding the cylinder throats range between .354 and .356". That one was so bad I had to have the chambers re-reamed too, not just the throats. At least it didn't have any thread choke. Never again will I buy anything with S&W stamped on it.

Gear

[Changeling]

DougGuy That was very well thought out and written, you know what you are talking about.



Trey, a good number of posts on our board relate to throats on the .45 caliber cylinders that won't accept a .452" boolit from the front with finger pressure. They are quite inconsistent too, some are like yours and don't need nothing, and others are so tight a .451" jword has trouble being forced into the cylinder throat. It really depends on luck for all I can figure, but the common denominator with Rugers, is the larger the caliber, the more likely you will find inconsistencies in cylinder throats, AND some constrictions where the barrels thread into the frame. This is due to the larger calibers being thinner, in both barrel wall thickness, and cylinder wall/web thickness. The .44 seems to be much more consistent than the .45, even that slight amount of difference in barrel thickness appears to affect the threaded part less on the .44 than on the .45 calibers.

Some of their convertibles suffer but this is different SAAMI specs causing that instead of production variations. The 44-40 / .44 Magnum convertibles being quite different cylinder dimensions in the first 3yrs of production, then Ruger saw the light and made the 44-40 cylinder with .430" throats. I haven't owned the .357 / 9mm convertible but as SAAMI specs for both those cartridges differ, so will cylinder dimensions.

I'm not beating down on Ruger by any means, and none of this is meant in a derogatory fashion at all, I am a solid fan of their firearms, they just need to be looked over and possibly addressed in certain areas to bring out their best. No biggie, it comes with the territory of a production revolver made to be affordable. I just got done with a cylinder from a S&W 625-5, it was the single most consistent set of .451" cylinder throats I have ever measured. And smoother than a baby's butt inside! it was a work of ART! Beautiful in ever way! But how much more did it cost over a Ruger? Nuf said.

Thanks for the heads up Bullshop ;)

[Changeling]

I have been looking at S&W lately Gear basically because I thought I needed a break from Rugers. However I'm starting to have my doubts also! I took my calipers to a gun show and only a few would let me examine ANY S&W!
I was looking for a specific revolver and I was told repedially that it was a "S&W and shot great", That didn't sit to well with me so I just backed out of buying/looking!
Now looking into the BFR's tosee if they have/will make what I want.







No flies on the Lee 255RFN, it's a great shooter. All my SAA revolvers like them crimped in the top lube groove, but they won't feed through repeating rifles that way. My favorite is the Accurate 45-255C but I might go with the 250Y next time just to get a full-diameter nose base. As a side note, the 45-255C works dandy in the .45 ACP cylinder I have for an Uberti SAA clone, enabling same POI for either cylinder. It shoots a titch low with 230's or lighter in the ACP, but YMMV.

As for Ruger, I own several and if the cylinders didn't need reaming, the barrels did and the forcing cones were terrible. I really like the guns, rock solid and comparatively inexpensive, but I expect they may need some fine-tuning for cast boolits when I buy one.

What rips me a new one is buying a new S&W for $1050 and finding the cylinder throats range between .354 and .356". That one was so bad I had to have the chambers re-reamed too, not just the throats. At least it didn't have any thread choke. Never again will I buy anything with S&W stamped on it.

Gear

[DougGuy]

Changeling, whatever became of the one of yours that was going back to Ruger?


As a side note, the 45-255C works dandy in the .45 ACP cylinder I have for an Uberti SAA clone, enabling same POI for either cylinder. It shoots a titch low with 230's or lighter in the ACP, but YMMV.

Gear

Gotta love that! I had more fun and was better challenged by seeing how many good boolits I could get to hit the same POI in my 4 5/8" Birdshead Vaquero. Took me a couple of months, but I came up with 7 loads, all 300gr or better that are dead nut right on top of the front sight blade @ 25yds.

[Good Cheer]

This is a .454 adjustable length plain, gas check and hollow base. Use it in 45Colt, 45ACP and muzzleloading. Would probably work ok in the Walker. Maybe the 1858 Remington. Maybe.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/adjustable45_zps8651f1de.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/adjustable45_zps8651f1de.jpg.html)

[bangerjim]

I shoot everything from 200gn to 300gn in 45. Like them all but LOVE the Lee 300 gn! Nice relative slow BIG slug that hits with a hard punch! My fav and also my wife's fav too!

bangerjim

[avogunner]

I'm another fan of the Lee 255 RNFP. I've had a Blackhawk and 2 Vaqueros and all shot that boollit great (sized .452). No chamber reaming required for my pistols either. Last year though I picked up an older 454190 and that has become my new favorite...not only for my pistol but my Uberti Henry too. It's slick through the action and 1.5-2" at 50 yards is easy (as long as I do my part).

[Outpost75]

I use the Saeco #954 flatnosed, 230-grain cowboy bullet in both .45 ACP and .45 Colt in my Ruger Convertible Blackhawk.

4.5 grains of Bullseye in the .45 ACP case and 6.5 grains in .45 Colt brass.

Keeps life simple.

99397

[Petrol & Powder]

I use the Saeco #954 flatnosed, 230-grain cowboy bullet in both .45 ACP and .45 Colt in my Ruger Convertible Blackhawk.

4.5 grains of Bullseye in the .45 ACP case and 6.5 grains in .45 Colt brass.

Keeps life simple.

99397

I'm all about simple logistics ! If it was my convertible 45ACP/45Colt set up, that Saeco 230gr bullet would be very tempting to me. I'm not sure I can sell him on that bullet. He has access to FMJ 45ACP ammo, so he doesn't need to cast bullets to feed that cylinder.

[oldfart1956]

Another fan here of the Lee 255 rnf in the .45 colt Blackhawk. Inexpensive and easily modified mold if need be. The H&G 68 clones also work remarkably well in the colt loading and will keep right up with the 255's out to 75 yds.! Less recoil and saves a bit of lead in the 68 clone configuration. Don't have a 45 acp in the Blackhawk but my results with the Lyman 452374 in the revolver (.45 colt) were dismal. I don't know why. Something to keep in mind is shooting jacketed bullets in the same barrel might cause leading when switching to lead. Might. As far as Dougs observation concerning undersized throats in 45 colt Ruger....ask Cylindersmith how many he reamed out. I hear he retired from doing it. Probably got that carnal tunnel syndrome from doing so many. Audie...the Oldfart..

[Harter66]

Mine likes the Lee 452-252 SWC from 50/50 ww/1-20 and the 452-255 RNFN of the same over 8-8.5 gr Unique .

While I escaped the thread choke in my 76' RBH the throats were from .4525 to .4543 I was able to lap them to 454 and eliminate the flier from the tight 1.

I used standard RCBS carbide dies for mine sizing only about 1/3 of the case. The chambers are close enough to allow 100% interchange of brass w/o full length sizing . I really only size enough to ensure that there isn't any bullet movement during recoil.

The SWC dropped at .454 and 262gr while the RNFN dropped a .454 and 265 gr from my moulds . In my set up they clocked along at 1050 and 985 fps ,getting up to 1200 fps was possible w/both boolits but it was neither the most accurate nor really comfortable to shoot. I've shot a few RCBS 45-200 SWC (intended for the ACP in semi-autos) and while accurate and fun to shoot were way off from the normal sight hold.

[Changeling]

Very well said Doug.

[Whiterabbit]

the best boolit is the LEE 300. For BOTH 45 colt AND 45 acp. the NRA reloading manual has a 45 acp load using 300 grain cast and bluedot. It shoots just lovely from a S&W moonclip gun. The Ruger can only be better.

[TXGunNut]

I shoot the 454424 Lyman in my BP guns, Ranch Dog's 454-290 is my RBH hunting boolit. I have a new 6-cav Lee 452-255 waiting in the wings because my BP revolvers are hungry....and the boolit looks cool too!

[Tar Heel]

My favorites are the 255gr variety at about 900fps. All can be moved faster in the Ruger but if harder hitting is why you have it, the 300gr bullet is hard to beat. I size to .452 in my Ruger BH

Lyman 454190 250 RNFP
Accurate Molds 45-250D 250 RNFP
RCBS 45-255-KT 255 KTSWC
Lyman 454629AW 300 RNFPGC

[smokeywolf]

I have a 65+ year old Ideal 454190. Hard to do better than that.

[Tar Heel]

I have a 65+ year old Ideal 454190. Hard to do better than that.

....end of story. :-)

[Boogieman]

I've good results with Lee 252gr. SWC & Lyman 452374 RN out of a Colt SAA & Cimarron with Unique powder,

[GLL]

Hard to beat the original IDEAL 454190 for everyday fun ! :)

http://www.fototime.com/720B35FD551CEF8/orig.jpg

Jerry

[41mag]

As you probably have noticed, there is a trend for the mid weight boolits for the 45 Colt portion of this anyway. I have also run a few in the 255-260gr range through my 1911 cast from these same type molds. Granted not a lot, but enough to know they shoot well enough to do whats needed.

I lucked into a great deal on a Redhawk. Through emails with the fellow he said he had never shot it and when I got it if it had been there was no way of telling it was spotless and stil had the gook on it wrapped in the plastic.

I started with the general check as I had read so much of the Ruger cylinder and forcing cone stuff I just had to find out about mine. It checked out great at around .4515 all the way around. My first loads were with the Lee 452-255 which I had in a 6 cavity mold. To be honest I could have stopped right then and there and shot for a LONG time being content. But as most things go I had to have this or that just to see.

That Lee or a similar bullet as mentioned above in various loads will shoot 1" groups out of the RH at 25yd with no issues, and keep doing o until you get tired of it. I ran close to 300 of them through it with nothing at all done as far as cleaning just to see how far it would go before it might start leading up. It finally got so nasty on the outside I went ahead and cleaned her up for good measure. All of those loads were lubed up with the 45/45/10 recipe listed up in the lube section, and I have not found any need for anything else in this one even up to the big 300gr loads.

I have now after having it for two or so years, shot everything from 200 up to the Lee 300's through it and all of them shot as good as I could hold them. I have run a few up into the upper limits of the Colt loads but nothing up into the mid range Ruger only loads, it's simply not needed. Those 255's will penetrate a 5 gallon bucket of sand almost completely lengthwise at 25yds, so I have no worries about anything else.

To be honest I myself am looking around for one of the convertible BH's for the wife and I to shoot together. She doesn't have an issue with the recoil of my RH's but they are simply too heavy for her to hold and shoot. The ACP is OK for her but she don't like the auto. I figured it would be a good compromise.

But for your bud's overall use, I doubt you will find anything for the price of a Lee mold to give him some great shooting bullets, and if you get the 6 banger, well it will only take an hour or so to pour him up a several month supply.

[geargnasher]

The problem with the 454190, and I have one and have shot a pile of boolits cast from it, is no crimp groove. When you load for tube-mag rifles also and aren't using a compressed load of BP like the boolit was intended for, this can become a real problem, particularly if you use softer boolits that can hammer their way back in the cases in the magazine. The 454190 and the 452664 each have their strengths and weaknesses, I think whoever designed the mould I mentioned earlier had their head screwed on VERY straight.

Gear

[btroj]

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/image_zpsf1334105.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/image_zpsf1334105.jpg.html)

This is what I use for all 45 Colt shooting, both my BH and my Marlin. Runs about 300 grams but at 900 fps it isn't bad in a Blackhawk and the same load runs 1200 in the Marlin and shoots great.

[GLL]

The problem with the 454190, and I have one and have shot a pile of boolits cast from it, is no crimp groove.

Gear

Here is the old 45 2.1 454190 design with the crimp groove:
This was run by WARF as a LEE 6-cavity Group Buy.

http://www.fototime.com/0F08FE412A9E849/standard.jpg

It is a great bullet even though LEE cut it pretty fat ! It works well in my S&W 25-5s with the oversize chambers !

Jerry

[frnkeore]

I have 1 each, NM Black Hawk, Red Hawk (both 7.5 bbl) and a beautiful 625-5, 5" bbl. Only the BH's cylinder doesn't fit the barrel, the throats are .450. The groups it shoots are close to twice as big as the RH and 625.

My three favorite bullets are H&G 22 (similar to 454190 but, larger meplat) for plinking, 454424, 258 gr crimped for personal protection and the 457191 (casts 456, sized .452) 300 gr, for long range. 8.5 gr Unique for plinking, 10.0 for PP (625) and 23.0 gr, 296 for LR in the BH & RH but, 21.5 in the 625.

Frank

[smokeywolf]

Who is this Ruger? You mean there's someone besides Colt who makes a single action 45? :kidding:

smokeywolf