45 acp question

[chris in va]

I acquired some pure lead and today managed to melt down some pewter. Just how soft can 45acp bullets be using a medium powder charge? Would a standard 16:1 lead/tin ratio cause any issues?

[freebullet]

I've shot darn near pure without issue, they weren't blazin fast though. Just nice plinkin loads. Giver a try and let us know how it works.

[MtGun44]

You can probably get good results with pure Pb, but it doesn't cast
as well as with 2% Sn. 1:16 is 6 1/4%, about 3 times as much of
the valuable tin as you need for fill-out. Tin is a pretty inefficient hardening
agent, you would be better off to find some wwts and mix it about
1:1 with pure Pb or 2:1 (Pb:wwts) and then put in the 2% of tin
from your pewter to help fill out. Wwts alloy uses antimony and
a bit of arsenic to harden, and .45 ACP needs very little hardening
to work well.

Bill

[220swiftfn]

Here's something to keep in mind.... That 1:16 was Keith's HARD alloy when he was overloading .44 Special (to come up with the .44 Magnum). As MtGun44 said, antimony is a better hardener, but ALSO like he said, you really don't need a hard alloy until you hit rifle velocities.....

The only reason commercial casters use hardball is so their customers get pretty boolits, not ones dinged up in transit.......


Dan

[rexherring]

I would see if you can get some WW or Linotype to mix. I shoot mostly 50/50 WWPb mix with no problems. Some bores like harder if they have shallow rifling like my Marlin 336.

[chris in va]

I normally use WW to good effect but as I came across this stash of pure lead (window counterweights) I just need to be sure it won't stuff my barrel with lead smear or worse.

I guess it wouldn't be any different than the old cowboys using it in their SAA or lever guns. If they can do it, surely it'll be fine for 700fps acp.

[Shiloh]

My 1911 isn't picky at all. I shoot a lot of range scrap. It works fine as is. Never had to harden it with WW or lino.
Rifle boolits are a bit harder metal for my preferences.

Shiloh

[Larry Gibson]

I use 16-1 alloy for magnum level .357, .41 and .44 magnum loads and for rifle loads in the 1400 - 1900 fps range with excellent results of accuracy and expansion. That alloy will certainly work fine for the 45 ACP but as with MtGun44 I suggest it is too much tin. As he mentioned adding 2 % tin to the Pb should do fine, especially with medium range loads.

Larry Gibson

[Piedmont]

I could be wrong but I think I even remember Elmer recommending 1 in ten for a tin/lead ratio just for the .45 ACP. For some reason he thought those ought to be extra hard. Just crazy amounts of tin. Maybe he couldn't get antimony back in the day, but weren't they using linotype for printing back then? He probably reached the vast majority of his opinions by 1950 so we are looking at the first half of the twentieth century.

[Dale53]

I have been casting bullets and loading since the early fifties. Plumbers lead was available from every hardware store at low prices. Tin was not very expensive, either. Elmer's "formula" was about the most practical alloy at that time. Early on, I experimented with pure antimony but it takes a lot of heat to melt antimony and high antimonial alloys were not readily available. Later, I used a LOT of used linotype -it cost $.20 per lb. for years and I bought it by the five gallon buckets. I still have a few buckets of it left.

I was a rather late in converting to using WW's+2% tin but that is my "go to" alloy these days (and has been for several years). Frankly, a person is apt to use what is most available and practical AT THAT TIME.

FWIW
Dale53

[Outpost75]

I find that today's wheelweights run softer than those of 20 or more years ago. While they work fine for revolver and lower velocity rifle bullets to to about 1700 fps, for auto pistols having shallow rifling, magnum revolver loads and heavier GC rifle loads in milsurp rifles, something a bit harder is helpful.

I use a 7-lb.Metals of Roto Metals linotype to the rest of my RCBS pot topped off with COWW, and this works out to about 15 BHN, which is fine for hardball equivalent IPSC type loads in the .45 ACP and for GC rifle loads to about 2000 fps, when wanted.

[chris in va]

How exactly do you add tin? I made some coin sized ingots, just melt half into my 10# pot, or do I need to flux it in somehow?

[jonas302]

just melt it right in

[prs]

Linotype and CWW are nearly nonobtainum in this area. If you did not collect it years ago, you are practically SOL. But, our friend with lead and pewter can easily purchase a bag of magnum shot and thus have antimony and a trace of arsenic in his alloy. Not too hard at all to get 96:2:2 with those contributors. That would be a CrackerJack of an alloy for .45 ACP right on up to standard velocity and could even be chill hardened a bit for souped-up duty.

prs

[45fan]

I acquired some pure lead and today managed to melt down some pewter. Just how soft can 45acp bullets be using a medium powder charge? Would a standard 16:1 lead/tin ratio cause any issues?

chris I use pure lead 200 gr rfn boolits with 5.5 grs of HP38. Not the hottest load ever, but I find this pretty close to the same as my choice for defensive carry loads in order to practice with similar loads. Never any sign of leading, 45 acp velocities dont NEED any tin or pewter as long as sized properly. I wouldnt waste tin on 45 acp loads unless you are having issue with not filling out well.

[oldfart1956]

I acquired some pure lead and today managed to melt down some pewter. Just how soft can 45acp bullets be using a medium powder charge? Would a standard 16:1 lead/tin ratio cause any issues? Chris, I was casting up some round balls&Maxi's for the muzzleloaders a while back from some lead roof flashing which some consider to be almost pure. It is right smart soft. Anyways, had a good bit left in the pot and the 45 acp mold was laying there so poured a good number, lubed them up and fired them up to 800 fps. and leading was no different than with Lyman #2 that I normally use. It did take a good bit of heat to get good fill-out. Let me explain "no different." My Remington R1 leads a smidge right in front of the chamber. Needs to have the rifling there knocked down a bit (throated) but it's so minor and doesn't build up so I ignore it. You're much more likely to get leading if the boolits cast undersize, which they may well do as pure lead casts smaller in the same mold than alloy lead. (as a general rule) Audie the Oldfart..

[JeffinNZ]

John Taffens article in the May issue of "Guns" is about cast in the .45ACP and much to my disappoint he make no reference whatsoever to alloy. It has been suggested to me that this maybe because the alloy doesn't matter.

[MtGun44]

Yes, for .45 ACP, pretty much true that alloy doesn't matter, but then, I haven't
had much problem with using various metal mixes (mostly break down to wwts,
pure plus lino and range lead) across the board - with the caveat that I do not
load a lot of rifle boolits and what I do are typically loaded to 1750 and down.

I have to disagree with "for auto pistols having shallow rifling, magnum revolver loads .....,
something a bit harder is helpful."

I find that I can succeed very well with 8BHN in magnum pistol cartridges, given good design,
good fit and good lube, and that .45 ACP seems to work with anything, and for me, at least,
air cooled wwt alloy is fine for 9mm. The shallow rifling part sounds reasonable,
but so far - I haven't run into it in reality.

Bill

[Cherokee]

For boolit fit is king. Any alloy seems to work in 45 ACP as long as the boolits fit.

[Rich/WIS]

I use straight range lead for 45 and light loads on 357 and 44 Mag. Works fine and is easy to get.