Pic of 457122 HP damage

[nighthunter]

This is a pic of the damage done to a whitetail deer here in Pa with the Gould HP from my 45-70 Ruger #1 this year. The deer was shot in the neck and the the bullet after exiting hit the deer in the back about at the end of the rib cage and again exited. Range was about 50 yards.

[Jjed]

I got my first 45-70 this year and used it for deer season but didn't have a chance to pull the trigger. tried to find info on gould molds after reading your post with no luck, can you tell me how much they cost and where to order them. currently using a lee 405 gr mold with 26 gr 2400.
p.s.
hunting not far from you in benezett pa
Thanks Jim

[nighthunter]

The Gould mold is the Lyman 457122 HP. It is available from both Midway and Midsouth. Price for a new mold is around $50. Stay away from the flea bay site for it. I have seen them go for close to $100 there because they added the word "vintage". It is a great bullet in my Ruger sized .458 and loaded over 40 grains IMR 4198.
Nighthunter

[WKAYE]

Merry Christmas Ed,
That's one hole I wouldn't want to "eat right up to" ! :Fire:

[nighthunter]

Merry Christmas to you also. How are things up in New Brunswick? If things go by schedule I should be up in Scou Douc in March or April. You are right about not eating right up to the hole. The hole was pretty much the same on both sides. I've seen some pretty nasty wounds caused by cast bullets and fortunately this was not even close to the worst.
Nighthunter

[Ricochet]

That's a blackpowder boolit, and pushing it much past 1500 FPS at the muzzle's taking it out of its design velocity range.

[ACK450]

Way to go Nighthunter. I'm glad you got your deer with that good old 45-70 bullet. No tracking job there I bet.

[nighthunter]

Ricochet .... I beg to differ but my load of 40 grains of IMR 4198 in a 22 inch barrel is probably lucky to hit 1600 fps. I think alloy is much more important than velocity. I also think it is important to consider that there were were 2 entrance and 2 exit wounds with 1 shot. The picture is of the final exit wound. My load is extemely accurate in my rifle and I will continue to shoot and hunt with it in the future. This load with this bullet has taken many deer for me and I'm not about to quit using it because you think it is a black powder bullet that should not be used above 1500 feet per second. Maybe you need to check Lyman's own reloading data and see what they recomend for velocity with this bullet. Sometimes something old is something good.
Nighthunter

[Ricochet]

Did I tell you to quit using it? That's my favorite .45-70 boolit, and if I ever do go deer hunting again with my 1895 Marlin, it'll be with the #457122HP loaded to about 1550 FPS. However, it is a BP bullet, and that's about the top end of the velocity range it was designed for. (That's about a max .45-90 BP load.)

Yes, Lyman lists lots of cast bullet loads at high velocities. Many go up to 2700+ FPS in "modern" cartridges. Doesn't necessarily mean those will shoot well or work as desired on impact, only that they fired them and found the pressures safe. I believe I recall them posting some of those 2700+ FPS loads in the 7mm Remington Magnum with a cast bullet, then commenting below that "accuracy was very erratic above 1800 FPS" or something like that.

Back to the #457122HP, I think if you load it to the "magnumized" .45-70 velocities, it'll fragment the front section instantly on impact. It worked great back in the 1890s at BP velocities, and it still does.

My previous post was an observation, not telling you or anyone what to do. It brought your deer down, didn't it? Did an impressive amount of damage, too.

[45-70marlin]

Ricochet, isnt it interesting that lyman post those loads? isnt 1600 fps pretty much the max load for any plain base lead bullet? i know some use a hotter load but after a few shots it may start leading the barrel. this is a interesting subject to talk about.

[miestro_jerry]

This is an area I want to learn more about. The Max Vel for cast bullets in rifles like the 45-70. I do have GC for that size, but would like to know the with and withouts of large bullets traveling at 1500 fps or faster.

Jerry

[Char-Gar]

The Gould bullet was designed as an black powder "express load" bullet for the 45-70 and 45-90 and has done well for many generations of hunters. I have shot deer with it off and on for the past 45 years. It has always done well for me.

Like all cast hollow point bullets, the alloy is important. Too hard and it won't expand, too soft and the velocity limits ratched downward. With a proper alloy, it will expand well from 1.2 yo 1.8 K fps. Go much above that and you run the risk of the bullet blowing up. Even so at the high end of it's velocity range it can damage allot of meat.

Like all plain base bullet, there is a velocity ceiling before leading becomes a serious problem. There are ways around this, but this factor can't be ignored.

I think the 1.4 to 1.6 K fps range is just the ticket for this bullet. There is not much to be gained by pushing it faster. It won't kill any better or faster and the meat damage increases when you go above this ceiling. The 45-70 is not a long range round, and adding a few hundred fps won't flatten the trajectory of extend the range of the bullet any amount worth considering.

My current receipe for the Gould bullets if 28/4759. I seat a card wad on top of the powder and fill up the air space with PSB to give a light compression with the bullet. The wad is to keep the powder and PSB from mixing. The alloy is 20-1 (lead to tin). I size the bullet .460 and it gives great accuracy from my Marlin 1895 SS and Ruger No. 3.

PS... I also have a Hoch custom solid point gas check version of this bullet. I have not done it yet, but think this should work well after hollow pointing with the Forster gizmo. This is one of my future probject.

[threett1]

I have used this mold successfully the last few years in the guide gun and handirifle. ACWW do a wonderful job at about 1500fps MV. Made a huge hole in the ribcage exiting a moderate buck this last Nov. Prob about 4in in diameter. Nothing will stand up to that at the proper distance and placement. If I think an animal will, I'll heat treat or go to a 420gr slug.

[nighthunter]

Ricochet ..... I didn't mean that you meant for me to quit hunting with the 457122HP. I meant that I was within your stated velocities or very close to them for this bullet and I am sure that you understood that. My alloy is good and I also stated that. Sometimes on here people have to know more than anyone else. I am sorry. I have been working 12 hours a day 7 days a week and Christmas was my only day off except for my vacation in deer season. I probably won't see day light for 3 more months.
Nighthunter

[6pt-sika]

I've been using that bullet for about 6 years now with excellent results .

I however am running it at what I believe to be an honest 1650 FPS and I use straight wheel weights.

So I don't know how that load works in TN , but it does just fine here in VIRGINIA :roll:

[Ricochet]

Hang in there, Nighthunter! It's been pretty pressured here lately, too. I haven't gotten to shoot in a while. :(