Cast bullets in a 10mm auto

[Krumfola]

I have a stainless bisley in 45 colt. It's a fine piece but I don't shoot it very much because it's pretty heavy. I've been rolling around the idea of trading it toward a 10mm auto, most likely the Glock 20sf, but I wasn't sure about cast bullets in a 10mm.

I've read post after post about the stopping power of the 10mm with various jacketed bullets. I'd like to use hard cast bullets if for no other reason than cost and what I think would be superior penetration than jacketed bullets. (Opinions welcomed)

Has anyone loaded a 10mm with a good hard cast bullet? I've used Dry Creek bullets in my 45 and love them. I really like them because they're affordable and Lynn is an easy guy to get in touch with who also stands by his products.

I don't cast nor do I see myself starting in the foreseeable future so I'd be buying any cast bullets. Next to quality, available and price are pretty important to me.

Keith

[HATCH]

I cast a 180 fprn and a 170 HP for my 1006, 1066 and my glock 23(40)
I use the magma mold and they both were 180's but I sent one off to Erik to get done.
I would guess any Hard Cast 180 would work.
You might need a new barrel for your glock though..

[Love Life]

I would try both traditional greased bullets or Coated bullets (Gateway or Bayou) in the 10mm. From what I have seen in the Glocks, the polygonal rifling is much easier on coated bullets.

[shooter93]

I shoot the 10mm in a 1911...a Dan Wesson to be exact and it is incredibly well made. I've been shooting 200 grain cast at about 1000 fps using bullets from Badman Bullets (till I get my mold) that are bhn 15. Works quite well and I'm using Unique powder.

[harley45]

I shoot a Wilson Combat 10mm and use two molds the MP Oreo designed 200gr and the Lee 175gr. FOr the Lee I cast out of 50/50 range scrap WW and water drop they work fine with no leading up to 1200FPS. The HP mold I cast at 50/50 WW and pure lead it is accurate but I do use an PB gas check on it to prevent leading and get good expansion. I had to play my 10MM more than any other caliber I own but the results were worh it!

[mpmarty]

I no longer own a Glock. Never will again ( I hope ). my three 10mm pistols are all Tanfoglio all steel models. One is a compact and one is the elite match the third is a plain jane full size. I load 200gr slugs to 1200+ fps with AA-9 and am very happy with all three. My cast load is a 175gr truncated cone at around 1000 fps. It is just enough to cycle the pistol and not launch the brass into a low orbit.

[Krumfola]

After posting these questions on a couple of sites, I'm starting to think that it would be more cost efficient to go for a 21sf. After buying dies, brass, etc for the 10mm it may be more trouble than it's worth.

If I do make the switch, I may just end up selling the Bisley and searching for someone getting rid of 10mm with some dies and brass.

[.5mv^2]

I have been shooting only hand loads in my g20. I don't load to max and usually use slower powders. My bullet is a Lee 175 TC.

[Krumfola]

I'm not saying I need full power loads every time I shoot but what advantage does the 10mm have if hand loads are kept around 1000fps? I know this is done to reduce leading but when I read about this round being a great "woods" gun, are these guys just using jacketed bullets at much higher velocities?

Could a 21sf (45ACP) be as good in this role by just loading using some +P 45 ammo?

[Adam10mm]

I'm not saying I need full power loads every time I shoot but what advantage does the 10mm have if hand loads are kept around 1000fps? I know this is done to reduce leading but when I read about this round being a great "woods" gun, are these guys just using jacketed bullets at much higher velocities?
I'm a big fan of the 10mm. I own one pistol and it's a 1911 commander in 10mm that I built myself. Most of the ammo I shoot now duplicates the FBI load of a 180gr at 980fps. 6.0gr WSF is the load using a 180gr truncated cone (TC) bullet. If I had to pick a single bullet profile that would be it. Clean holes in paper for scoring competition, feeds wonderfully, and has a good profile for longer shots on game (up to 100y) to still drive straight. For hunting I run that bullet with 9.2gr of Longshot to get it around 1250fps. No leading with a proper bullet, lube, powder, etc.

150gr SWCs are nice for small game or cheapest plinking bullets. Lead is cheaper than powder so I would rather use heavier bullets for less powder and save money that way.

[osteodoc08]

Krumfola, 10mm vs 45+p, polygonal + lead, man, you're hitting tons of hot topics here.

I love my G20SF. I shoot a 200gr XTP at 1150fps. 357 mag/41 lite area. At 15+1, I feel I'm well armed and with another magazine I have 31 rounds on tap for serious business woods or HD. I've got some lead boolits loaded up to try in the Glock barrel, just have to watch for leading.

My next 10mm purchase will be on a 1911 frame. I'd love to find a Kimber Eclipse Target model. A colt delta elite and others would be nice too. Wish my beloved Sig P series came in a 10mm.

[johnnysespresso]

Back in about 1990, my standard target load for my Delta Elite was 9gr. AA#7 under a hard cast 200gr. SWC. chronoed at about 975 fps. I picked up a Glock 20 in 1991 and used the same handload in it with no leading. Sold the Glock about 3 years ago 'cause it was too big for my hands (stubby fingers). Last summer, I got a Glock 20SF and have as yet only run plated or jacketed bullets through it. One of these days, I will run 20 or so cast boolits through it and ck. the bbl. for any signs of leading. The problem with polygonal rifling and cast boolits is the strong tendency to lead up the bore and raise pressure to excess. If you can find a load that does not lead, all is wonderful.

[Bigslug]

I'm not saying I need full power loads every time I shoot but what advantage does the 10mm have if hand loads are kept around 1000fps? I know this is done to reduce leading but when I read about this round being a great "woods" gun, are these guys just using jacketed bullets at much higher velocities?

Could a 21sf (45ACP) be as good in this role by just loading using some +P 45 ammo?

Krumfola, I have been a fan of the Glock 20 for many years, though I will say that that the 10mm round is not necessarily for everyone.

I have not yet begun casting .40 caliber bullets yet, so I cannot speak from experience on the whole issue of lead being bad in polygonal bores, though I expect proper fit, hardness, and lube will make it non-issue. Casting your own will let you control those variables. If you're NOT going to pour your own, I would heed the warnings and stick with jacketed.

The 10mm has a nice, flat trajectory for a combat auto package. I do not think it's as good a combat cartridge as the .45 simply because it is a little slower coming out of recoil, but it is probably the best choice for the rural mountain state cop who might be dealing with a meth dealer one day and a grizzly bear the next. The .45 won't be as flat shooting, but with careful selection of bullet design can give you all the penetration you'll likely need - though not as much as what you can do with your Ruger.

[Love Life]

After shooting pinion logs with both the 45 ACP and the 10mm, I'd take the 10mm. Not very scientific, but one penetrated the logs and one didn't. Not much science needed beyond that.

The 10mm is great and fun cartridge. I load sissy 10mm for the Delta Elite, and heavy stuff for the S&W 1026. I keep jacketed bullets on hand for the 10mm even though making cast bullets work isn't that hard.

Use a good lube, ensure proper fit, and check your barrel every couple of rds when you first start shooting to ensure no leading, and you will be fine. If you can't get leading under control then sell your mould and sizer die and buy some jacketed or plated bullets.

[Grump]

If you can stand the fat and long backstrap to frontstrap on the Glocks, go for it. I can't, though a Para Warthog a few weeks ago didn't feel all that bad. Maybe wanting just an extra half-inch of backstrap made the width not noticeable...

Anyway, my experiences are only in the .40 and in a Glock and a USP, both full-size. With a decent lube (even RCBS commercial) and sized properly, both will work just fine. Oops, the USP is a first-year with cut rifling...

An RCBS two-cavity mould of nominal 180-gr weight with BHN 12 or so boolits, running about 975 fps, was every bit as accurate in both guns as the best-performing factory loads (WWB 180s and I forgot what else). 2 inches at 25 yards, 5-round groups, and more than once with each. Pretty predictable, which had me quite happy.

Advantages of the 10mm?? The various testing I've seen was almost always showing better accuracy out of the 10 than almost any .40 Spray & Wish. Published reports as I recall showed this with both 10mm "light" FBI type loads as well as full-tilt almost .41 Mag power levels. If you go with a single-stack I think you still have 9 shots in the mag, which is enough for me if I can put #10 in the chamber.

Do it right with boolits and velocity will NOT be a limiting factor for leading. IME with the Glock, it's just a good idea to at least check the bore every 50 rounds and maybe clean it after 100 just to be sure. Seems to me that something about the nitrided bore makes it "sticky" to lead. USA Brand commercial lead reloads were the worst experience in my life for leading, but my own bullets sized .401 (IIRC) left only the lightest leading, which probably didn't even really need cleaning out after 100 rounds. Accuracy was not falling off, either.

If your idea of a "woods gun" includes shots beyond 50 yards, then the 10mm with most bullets will shoot enough flatter for you to make it easier to whallop a rock chuck at 75 or beyond, than with a .45. This is assuming you get better than 4 inch groups at 50.

The only real advantage I see for the .45 is that it has such a history of being easy to get accurate loads worked up. Drive a decent projectile and 3 inch or smaller groups at 50 are not that rare with a bit of load development and a quality barrel properly fitted to the firearm.

[Krumfola]

Lots of great info so far, I really appreciate the responses. What powders do you guys find to work the best? I am pretty sure I'll have to try something new and it's looking like Longshot is one that a lot of people are using.

[Love Life]

I have liked WSF, Unique, AA#7, and 800X. I plan to pick up some AA#9 this weekend.

Be careful with the 800X. It meters like corn flakes and can have some pressure issues.

[FLHTC]

Years ago I owned a Delta Elite and it performed fine with commercial hard cast and it even fed 40 S&W with a lighter recoil spring. I don't know about a Glock

[Jupiter7]

I'll add my $.02. I've been in this dilemma for about 3yrs, debating the merits and costs associated with 10mm. Pretty much I've decided if I can't improve on .45auto or .40s&w ballistics, then why bother. So for 10mm, that means for me, 200grs at 1100fps+. With standard published(non +p) load data in 45auto I can get 200gr boolit to about 1050fps. And in .40, 190gr boolit at 1000fps and possibly get 200gr up 1000fps.

As above, with proper boolit/powder selection, .45 is a viable choice and easier to shoot with less
recoil and less cost. I have considered .45super as an alternative, just need brass and a few changes to one of my 1911's. Til then, the blackhawk in 45colt fills this role, easily, but I don't have to worry about getting eaten either. As of now, I think the "want" outweighs the "need" for a 10mm.

[Love Life]

Getting a 200 gr bullet to 1,200 fps in the 10mm is very do-able. I plan to do some wet phone book tests shooting full snort 200 gr LSWC from the 10mm and full snort 230 gr LRN from the 45. I expect my wet phonebook tests will probably bare out the same results as the pine log.

If you already have a 45 acp or 45 Colt, then jumping into the 10mm is definately a "want" thing.

I find the 10mm very fun and accurate from powder puff to full snort. Plus it is just plain cool.

[Bonz]

Lots of great info so far, I really appreciate the responses. What powders do you guys find to work the best? I am pretty sure I'll have to try something new and it's looking like Longshot is one that a lot of people are using.

Longshot gives you higher velocities at lower pressures

[Love Life]

There are a whole bunch of powders I'd like to try right now...

[Krumfola]

I'll add my $.02. I've been in this dilemma for about 3yrs, debating the merits and costs associated with 10mm. Pretty much I've decided if I can't improve on .45auto or .40s&w ballistics, then why bother. So for 10mm, that means for me, 200grs at 1100fps+. With standard published(non +p) load data in 45auto I can get 200gr boolit to about 1050fps. And in .40, 190gr boolit at 1000fps and possibly get 200gr up 1000fps.

As above, with proper boolit/powder selection, .45 is a viable choice and easier to shoot with less
recoil and less cost. I have considered .45super as an alternative, just need brass and a few changes to one of my 1911's. Til then, the blackhawk in 45colt fills this role, easily, but I don't have to worry about getting eaten either. As of now, I think the "want" outweighs the "need" for a 10mm.

Very well put.

[shooter93]

I like Unique but I use it in virtually all my handgun loads. A 200 40 caliber at 1000 fps is a real penetrating round better I think than a 200 grain 45. I have and shoot both and while 10mm may have it's problems with brass availability at times I do still like it. My gun is chambered nicely without an oversize bore so a very moderate load reaches 1000 fps easily with no high pressures and light recoil. Works for me. Nothing against a 45 for sure but 10 mm is an excellent caliber.

[harley45]

One of the things I want to try is the 200gr 45 cal pushed hard on Hogs against my 200gr 10mm loads. In theory I think I'll get the same results but due to the sectional density and penetration differences I'm not sure. Plus finding a WFN 45 has been a challenge

[Captain_Howdy]

well I have a glock 20 gen4 10mm auto. I have 2 other glocks one in 9mm and one in 40 S&W. I also have 2 1911s and a variety of other handguns including a Ruger gp100.

Think about what you just read...I WILL NOT get rid of my 10mm. It has far more downrange power than any of my other guns with only the 357 coming even close. I think each of my guns has its purpose and each has its niche. If you have a niche use for the 10mm then go for it. I have fired Oreos 195 grain cast from my glock 20 with no issues. Its an excellent design MiHec Mold. Also remember most 'book load info' for the 10mm is really dummed down. I wont get into it...but loads from the 10mm at original specs are very impressive. If you want a 45 then get the 45...if you want an auto round that can do it all from big to small...then get the 10mm. I have heard it will take down a bear...I will not confirm such a thing because I have no intentions of confronting such an animal...just saying though. Lots of videos on youtube with guys hunting with the 10mm as well.

Whatever you decide good luck with it.

[harley45]

2015 if things go as planned my 10mm and I will be heading to Maine for a Black Bear Hunt!

[Outer Rondacker]

I have had dreams of a 10mm following me home one day from a gun show or shop in my area. I have looked for three years and only ever found one. A glock. That wasnt happening. There is a show this weekend and I plan to put out feelers and get the word out I want one. Who knows maybe just maybe dreams do come true. :}

[Love Life]

What's wrong with the Glock?

[Krumfola]

I hope nothing is wrong with the Glock because I just traded for one. It should be here in a couple of days. Thanks for all the pros and cons of the 10mm as a do all round. I really didn't think my original questions would illicit so many opinions.

Now, anyone have a holster recommendation for OWB non-concealed carry?

Based on what I've read, I'm leaning toward a Serpa or possibly a Bladetech. I look forward to hearing what you guys are using. Pics would be appreciated.

[Love Life]

I'd look at what Mernickle offers. Their holsters are absolutely fantastic and worth every penny.

[NavyVet1959]

I have a G29 and G20 that I often carry. I use the Lee 175g TL bullet and I use the same bullet as a backup while hog hunting and as a self-defense round. Maybe it doesn't mushroom as much as some of the hollowpoints, but I figure that with a hole in the front and in the back, they're going to bleed out twice as fast. :)

The nice thing about the Glock 10mm handguns is that you can shoot .40SW rounds in it without even a barrel change since it headspaces on the extractor. Another thing that you can do is use .40SW brass and load it to 10mm lengths and pressure, so 10mm brass availability can be mitigated. I use the stock Glock barrel with cast bullets and have not had any leading problems. As far as I'm concerned, there is no logical reason to buy a .40SW Glock since the 10mm one can do everything the .40SW one can do AND MORE.

[Captain_Howdy]

I have a Blackhawk serpa holster...it works

[dk17hmr]

Getting a 200 gr bullet to 1,200 fps in the 10mm is very do-able .......

My mountain carry load is a 205gr WFN at 1240fps, loaded with Long Shot powder in a Factory Glock barrel for 700 foot pounds at the muzzle.

My buddies give me a lot of grief about carrying my Glock in the mountains because "you had to have a 44 magnum with 300gr bullets"......6 rounds compared to 16, manageable recoil with very quick follow up shots compared to their ultra light 44 magnums that barely get first round hits...one day at the range we raced on a 7 yard target, I was picking up my brass before they had all 6 shots off....I'll take my Glock.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/IMG_20131020_164106_zpse40d74b1.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dk17hmr/media/IMG_20131020_164106_zpse40d74b1.jpg.html)

My concealed carry load is a 180gr Hydro-shock at just about 1400fps. I really love the 10mm cartridge but hate loosing brass so I bought a Lone Wolf 40 S&W barrel for my Glock 20 so I can shoot it on the cheap and not really worry about lost brass. No other changes other than the barrel, same mags, and recoil spring.

BladeTech paddle for Open carry and a Kholsters.com IWB for Concealed carry.

[Captain_Howdy]

the Glock 20 is such a sweet gun. Nothing wrong with them at all. But if you mention Glock around here the haters do seem to come full force. They wanna talk about other guns but if you like at Underwood ammo you will see that the Glock is actually just one of the preferred guns for the higher powered loading. You can go check out some of their expensive factory loaded stuff here. http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx Just take a look at some of the velocities they can reach with their ammo. These guys follow the original factory specs for loading the 10mm. It is truly an awesome round and I believe some of todays handgun hunters may bring this round back to the glory it deserves.

I have shot cast from mine with no issues. I do pay attention to my gun though. And I clean it well too. I normally wont shoot more than 50 rounds before inspecting and cleaning the barrel. If I ever get a LWD barrel for it this will become a non-issue. I traded a big cumbersome 44mag for my G20 and I think I came out ahead with the better gun.

[harley45]

Yup works good for hunting, this one is my Hunting, duty, off duty go everywhere do anything gun!
https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6092/6273119711_4b0c95f1f5_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41653286@N03/6273119711/)
IMG_0127 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41653286@N03/6273119711/) by White Tiger Photographic (https://www.flickr.com/people/41653286@N03/), on Flickr

[NavyVet1959]

the Glock 20 is such a sweet gun. Nothing wrong with them at all. But if you mention Glock around here the haters do seem to come full force.

If you appreciate fine engineering, then the Glock is an ugly gun. If you grew up with the M1911, you'll more than likely hate the Glock's trigger. But, they are dependable... I have 2 in 10mm and 1 in .45ACP. The G21 was such a good deal that I figured that I might just make it into a .460 Rowland one of these days just for the 'ell of it. I have more M1911s though.

Glocks are great for *concealed* carry since no one has to see that you actually carry a *Glock*. If we had open carry here in Texas, then you would want something that you would not be ashamed of someone seeing you carrying (i.e. a M1911). :)

[Outer Rondacker]

Well didnt I open a can of worms. LOL My comment on glock and that not happening was I had a bad issue with a glock 27. Glock would not work with me and after a few phone calls as far as I could go up the chain I sold it. That was 1 year ago. Around last turkey day I got an email from another officer who bought it and they said my fear had come true, it kaboommmed on him with factory ammo. He is fine. But after that I said no more glocks. I still do have to have the G37 in 45 gap and to be honest love it. I just figured if there that stupid to not fully support the bullet in 40sw and 9mm there was no way I was going to chance a 10mm. I have not done alot of home work on this. From what I am reading you guys really like the G20s and put lead down the pipe to boot. I will give it another look. For the record I do not dislike glock. Loved the size of the 27 just didnt feel safe after looking at the brass.

[Captain_Howdy]

Lol I did grow up with 1911s and glocks are ugly. But my glock triggers are way better than my 1911 triggers and only cost around 20 bucks each. My 1911 triggers suck in comparison. My 1911s are also finicky...my glocks not so much. glocks are user friendly in the gunsmith dept while 1911s are not...just saying. I love my 1911s though but for practical uses I grab one of my glocks.

[hickfu]

I thought I was done shopping for guns, I thought I had everything I wanted so no need to buy any more guns or gun related stuff.... Thanks to all of you I now want a 10mm!! I have only handled 1 Glock but it was around 28 years ago and it felt like a brick but Im hoping they have gotten better since, I really wish Springfield would come out with a XD10mm! Oh well, now I need a 10mm


Doc

[Love Life]

I love Glocks. I shoot them and revolvers better than any other hand guns I own.

10mm- I feel perfectly fine with the 10mm for the reasons DK17HMR outlined. When loaded to top loadings it is a heck of a cartridge. Unfortunately the Delta is not up to handling the nuclear 800X loads.

Here are my thoughts on the leading. I use HI-TEK super coat exclusively so I don't worry about leading in the Glock barrels. Before I switched to HT I used speed green or Lotak Hard for my 9mm and 45 ACP ammo in the Glocks and never had any issues either. Fit is king blah, blah, blah.

[Outer Rondacker]

Is the chamber in the 10mm glock fully supported or no like there 40s?

[Jupiter7]

Is the chamber in the 10mm glock fully supported or no like there 40s?

Yes, full case support

[Love Life]

Sort of off track, but I have seen a few 10mm Commander pistols on the forum. Who makes those? Are they one off custom items?

[Jupiter7]

Sort of off track, but I have seen a few 10mm Commander pistols on the forum. Who makes those? Are they one off custom items?

I'm not sure of any current production 10mm 1911. Dan wesson used to make one when bob serva(vbob) owned them and he now builds them under the fusion firearms name. Rock island is making a "mid-size" 10mm, 4" bull barrel with full size frame with light rail I believe. I'd kinda like a true 4.25" ramped bushing barrel bobbed 10mm 1911.

[Outer Rondacker]

I was under the impression that EAA was still making a 10mm 1911?

[Outer Rondacker]

Yes, full case support

Thank you. Well my wife wont now that I know this I will be buying one for sure.

[Jupiter7]

I was under the impression that EAA was still making a 10mm 1911?

EAA makes the witness, a cz75 clone.

[Captain_Howdy]

the newer 40 cal glocks have full case support as well.

[shooter93]

For holsters give ElPaso Saddlery a serious look....they are great.

[Adam10mm]

Sort of off track, but I have seen a few 10mm Commander pistols on the forum. Who makes those? Are they one off custom items?
I built my aluminum framed 10mm commander myself.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/DSCN0813.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/freakshow10mm/media/DSCN0813.jpg.html)

[Love Life]

That is a sweet pistol. Do you mind if I pm you and pick your brain on it?

[Adam10mm]

Not at all.

[.5mv^2]

Doug, you are humping it. Go Go.
Do you have any pics of your brass with primers after being shot?
Thanks.

My mountain carry load is a 205gr WFN at 1240fps, loaded with Long Shot powder in a Factory Glock barrel for 700 foot pounds at the muzzle.

My buddies give me a lot of grief about carrying my Glock in the mountains because "you had to have a 44 magnum with 300gr bullets"......6 rounds compared to 16, manageable recoil with very quick follow up shots compared to their ultra light 44 magnums that barely get first round hits...one day at the range we raced on a 7 yard target, I was picking up my brass before they had all 6 shots off....I'll take my Glock.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/IMG_20131020_164106_zpse40d74b1.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dk17hmr/media/IMG_20131020_164106_zpse40d74b1.jpg.html)

My concealed carry load is a 180gr Hydro-shock at just about 1400fps. I really love the 10mm cartridge but hate loosing brass so I bought a Lone Wolf 40 S&W barrel for my Glock 20 so I can shoot it on the cheap and not really worry about lost brass. No other changes other than the barrel, same mags, and recoil spring.

BladeTech paddle for Open carry and a Kholsters.com IWB for Concealed carry.

[wis40]

I have tried cast boolits from a place right here in Wisconsin and am very happy with the quality. Loaded and shot quite a few in my 40s&w already. And prices are pretty reasonable. acmebullet.com wis40

[Outer Rondacker]

the newer 40 cal glocks have full case support as well.

Interesting mine was a Gen4 from late 2012 and it was not supported.

Adam10MM that gun looks great. I have to ask how hard is it to make something like that?

[dk17hmr]

Doug, you are humping it. Go Go.
Do you have any pics of your brass with primers after being shot?
Thanks.

This 205gr design is one of JTknives original molds. He cast and heat treated this batch for me shortly after I got the pistol. I am getting a slight bulge with the factory barrel that is why I stopped. I have plans to get an extended length Lone Wolf barrel for a better chamber and slightly more velocity.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_215803_zps955c5086.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dk17hmr/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_215803_zps955c5086.jpg.html)

JT has a wicked load for it out of his Glock 20, that is heavily modified, that I have personally shot over my chrono that read slightly over 1400fps.....it was hot but his pistol took it and wanted more.

Anyone looking to upgrade sights on the Glock 20, I highly recommend the two dot night sights made by Ameriglo. Excellent day time sight picture and simple night sight just put one dot on the other. The muzzle side of the rear sight is vertical enough to hook on something to rack the slide as well. I will be getting another set for the Glock 32c I am picking up tomorrow.

99578

[ctious]

I personally shoot the 200 gr shallow hp Oreo mihec mold. My hunting loads I can push up to 1450. But got best accuracy at 1400. No leading at all. 6 inch Kkm in a glock 20 lone wolf longslide. Shot 6 deer so far. All amazing damage.

800x is king. Aa9 second. And longshot 3rd.

[ctious]

If you look in the group buy results forum you will find a ton of pics and info on the boolits and 10mm. Pics of deer as well.

[harley45]

The cup point is going to be my choice for Black bear

[Adam10mm]

Adam10MM that gun looks great. I have to ask how hard is it to make something like that?
Not too bad. It goes together like any other 1911. Have to fit everything together like usual. There are some things to do to help with recoil management that is different than a .45 because you are dealing with increased slide velocity. The bobtail conversion isn't necessary but this gun is my "everything" gun so it serves as home defense, personal defense (carry), and my hunting weapon. The bobtail really helps with concealment as far as printing of the grip goes. I have more freedom of movement with it than I had without it. I've built a few 10mm 1911s. My two favorite were a Para P16 in 10mm and this commander in 10mm with aluminum frame. I sold the Para a long time ago though.

[Outer Rondacker]

Not too bad. It goes together like any other 1911. Have to fit everything together like usual. There are some things to do to help with recoil management that is different than a .45 because you are dealing with increased slide velocity. The bobtail conversion isn't necessary but this gun is my "everything" gun so it serves as home defense, personal defense (carry), and my hunting weapon. The bobtail really helps with concealment as far as printing of the grip goes. I have more freedom of movement with it than I had without it. I've built a few 10mm 1911s. My two favorite were a Para P16 in 10mm and this commander in 10mm with aluminum frame. I sold the Para a long time ago though.

I have never built a 1911. I have always wanted to and then found a 14 part video on youtube and well after watching it I think I am more confused then before lol. I am attending a gun show today. Its nothing big about 125 tables. I will be looking for a book to read on this subject and also a gun in 10mm. Wish me luck.

[Krumfola]

So the consensus is that the G20 don't offer full case support.

Is this a problem in all 10mm loads or only the hottest? I don't typically carry reloads for protection (plinking and target practice, yes) and I'm looking at the double tap or buffalo bore hardcast loads (200gr) for woods carry.

Will the unsupported chamber be an issue with these loads if they will only be used some of the time? Do I need to change to a heavier spring with them even though they would only be used occasionally?

[dk17hmr]

.....800x is king. Aa9 second. And longshot 3rd.

I'm glad you said that...in my orginal post I said I was using LongShot with the 205gr WFN, that's not the case I am using 800x. My 180gr Jacketed load is using AA9. I use long shot for 40S&W and 357 Sig.

I don't shoot top end loads all the time in my 10mm, so I don't load them often. It is my side arm when I am out and about in the mountains and the desert......bears and lions worry me less than accidently stepping into someone mobile meth lab or still.

[dk17hmr]

So the consensus is that the G20 don't offer full case support.

Is this a problem in all 10mm loads or only the hottest? I don't typically carry reloads for protection (plinking and target practice, yes) and I'm looking at the double tap or buffalo bore hardcast loads (200gr) for woods carry.

Will the unsupported chamber be an issue with these loads if they will only be used some of the time? Do I need to change to a heavier spring with them even though they would only be used occasionally?

I think they use Glock 20's for their test guns. My 20 is still in stock form, and I shoot that 205gr in 1240fps range.....I wouldn't use them all the time for plinkers/blasting but there shouldn't be any really negatives shooting from the factory barrel, other then the brass might be trashed.

[Krumfola]

Is anyone using a Blade Tech Revolution holster?

[Love Life]

I have been playing with AA#7 and have found some good loads with the 180 gr HAP bullet. I am still working up with AA#7 with the RCBS 200-LSWC. I got some AA#9 loads are currently being worked up as well. My 800X nuclear loads, the brass gets used once and then tossed in the scrap bin.

[.5mv^2]

Oh swelling of the barrel sounds scary... Is the lone wolf (chinese) barrel stronger than the Austrian barrel?


This 205gr design is one of JTknives original molds. He cast and heat treated this batch for me shortly after I got the pistol. I am getting a slight bulge with the factory barrel that is why I stopped. I have plans to get an extended length Lone Wolf barrel for a better chamber and slightly more velocity.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_215803_zps955c5086.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dk17hmr/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140314_215803_zps955c5086.jpg.html)

JT has a wicked load for it out of his Glock 20, that is heavily modified, that I have personally shot over my chrono that read slightly over 1400fps.....it was hot but his pistol took it and wanted more.

Anyone looking to upgrade sights on the Glock 20, I highly recommend the two dot night sights made by Ameriglo. Excellent day time sight picture and simple night sight just put one dot on the other. The muzzle side of the rear sight is vertical enough to hook on something to rack the slide as well. I will be getting another set for the Glock 32c I am picking up tomorrow.

99578

[dk17hmr]

Getting the "Glock Bulge" (brass) with the factory barrel....not bulging the barrel.

[Love Life]

Ya'll should see the guppied brass from the Delta Elite. That'll make your hair stand on end!!!

[NavyVet1959]

I like Unique but I use it in virtually all my handgun loads. A 200 40 caliber at 1000 fps is a real penetrating round better I think than a 200 grain 45.

Give similar frontal profiles shapes, equal weights, and equal velocities, the bullet with the smaller diameter is going to penetrate further. A bullet is going to exert a certain amount of force on an object when it strikes it. As that bullet travels through a medium, then the medium is inducing drag onto the bullet. The drag is related to the frontal cross sectional area of the bullet -- more cross sectional area, more drag.

As an extreme measure, consider this scenario... Your are laying on the ground and someone lays a 50 lb barbell weight plate across your chest. You're going to feel the weight, but it's not going to even break the skin. Now, let's do the same thing except with 50 lbs of force being applied to a 1/8" diameter screwdriver that has had the blade cut off so that it is perfectly flat and the size of the shaft of the screwdriver. Supposedly, only 100 psi is needed to break human skin. That 50 lbs on a 1/8" diameter shaft would result in about 3886 psi. I suspect that there is a *real good* chance that this 1/8" diameter shaft is going to go in.

Or you could compare how far two nails of significantly different cross sectional areas would go into a piece of wood if you removed the point and hit each with the same hammer and velocity of the hammer head. For one nail, use a typical 6d common nail and for the other one, use a roadroad spike. With a single hit of the same hammer and with the same hammer velocity, the smaller nail is going to go deeper.

But, if you really look at it, we're talking about the different between .401" and .451", so the cross sectional areas are .12629 sq-in and .15975 sq-in, a difference of 0.03346 sq-in. Thus, a 25.5% increase in cross sectional area when going from 10mm to .45ACP. Of course, I'm assuming no expansion of the bullet in this example. I'm not saying that the 10mm is going to penetrate 25.5% further though since this does not take into account other forms of drag (e.g. skin friction).

There's currently a mold for a .308" diameter bullet that casts at 230 gr. Given the same 1000 fps velocity that you mentioned previously, I'm thinking that it would be a pretty good penetrator.

Of course, this is what the sectional density term is all about.

[Krumfola]

That's a really good example NavyVet.

[Krumfola]

Looking for dies now and I know the 10mm case head spaces on the brass.

Has anyone used the Lee die factory crimp die? I've used this type of die in heavy recoiling cartridges and it's certainly works but I don't know that it's necessary with this round.

Any suggestions on a die set?

[Captain_Howdy]

I use the hornady dies...it will work for 40 and 10mm...get the taper crimp set. I had no need for a Lee FCD. I just loaded a bunch of 40 with it tonight.

[NavyVet1959]

Looking for dies now and I know the 10mm case head spaces on the brass.

Has anyone used the Lee die factory crimp die? I've used this type of die in heavy recoiling cartridges and it's certainly works but I don't know that it's necessary with this round.

Any suggestions on a die set?

I use the Lee dies. The .40SW dies also do 10mm. I use the FCD, but that is because I like to separate the seating of the bullet and the crimping into two separate steps.

[Love Life]

I use lee dies, but I use the taper crimp die instead of a FCD.

[Dakotared]

I was under the impression that EAA was still making a 10mm 1911?

As it was said it is a CZ 75 clone. They are amazing guns and fit your hand like a glove. The only reason they are not more popular in the states is the importer sucks. IF you have problems EAA is a pain to deal with. Even with them being a pain to deal with I would go with the witness over a glock any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It is a better gun.

[Outer Rondacker]

As it was said it is a CZ 75 clone. They are amazing guns and fit your hand like a glove. The only reason they are not more popular in the states is the importer sucks. IF you have problems EAA is a pain to deal with. Even with them being a pain to deal with I would go with the witness over a glock any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It is a better gun.
Dakotared Thank you for the reply. Glock CS sucks also just for the record. I guess the only other thing to ask is how hard is it to get brass? I looked at my last show and not once peice to be found.

[Krumfola]

Outer Rondacker,

If you're talking about finding 10mm brass, I put a WTB listing in a few places and ended up with a couple hundred pieces in a few hours.

[NavyVet1959]

Dakotared Thank you for the reply. Glock CS sucks also just for the record. I guess the only other thing to ask is how hard is it to get brass? I looked at my last show and not once peice to be found.

Or you can use .40SW brass and just load it to 10mm length if you are using a Glock.

[shooter93]

Brass can be spotty but I've had no trouble really rounding up several thousand rounds mostly new and some once fired. I taper crimp but as I noted before my Dan Wesson 1911 needs rounds seated to a specific depth and outside diameter at the case mouth with a 401 bullet can't be over .423. Not hard to do and it works flawlessly when done that way. The Dan Wesson is actually one of the finest factory handguns I've ever bought. The quality rivals Les Baer and Wilson from the box. Mine is an older Dan Wesson but I've been told the new CZ's are the same. With Glocks...it seems people either love them or hate them...smiles.

[NavyVet1959]

With Glocks...it seems people either love them or hate them...smiles.

I own 3 of them in either .45 or 10mm and I definitely do not love them. They're ugly, but they work. Definitely appropriate for *concealed* carry since you wouldn't want anyone to actually see you carrying something that ugly. :) Not something that I would *open carry* since it would be kind of embarrassing to be seen with one by your friends. Kind of like dating a fat chick, I guess. :)

[fivegunner]

Hi ,Navyvet 1959 could you tell me a little about using 40S&W brass in a 10MM ? do you do that with cast? or just jacked? do you use 10mm power or back it down a little? I was thinking of getting a new barrel in 40S&W for my 20sf. but if that would work I could save the cost of a new barrel.:bigsmyl2:

[NavyVet1959]

Hi ,Navyvet 1959 could you tell me a little about using 40S&W brass in a 10MM ? do you do that with cast? or just jacked? do you use 10mm power or back it down a little? I was thinking of getting a new barrel in 40S&W for my 20sf. but if that would work I could save the cost of a new barrel.:bigsmyl2:

I use cast and I use the Glock 10mm barrel. You can use full power 10mm loads in the .40SW brass as long as you load it to the 10mm lengths. You just end up with slightly less brass contacting the bullet. The Glock has a strong extractor and basically headspaces on it instead of the case mouth, so you can get away with this. I've heard that you can't necessarily do that on some of the other 10mm handguns.

You can also shoot .40SW ammo in the 10mm Glock without changing the barrel to a .40SW barrel. You can't just drop a round in the barrel though -- you need to put it in the magazine in order to load it in the chamber.

This is what makes the G20 one of the more flexible handguns around, IMHO.

[6bg6ga]

I own a mint Glock model 20 that has been abused with 22 rounds shot thru it. It currently resides inside my dresser. I need another 45LC.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a Tanfoglio EAA Witness Match Elite in 9mm. This gun brand new had the best trigger I have ever pulled in any semi auto. It was even better then all the 1911 competition triggers I have tried. This is a full frame gun. It is big. It is heavy. It is stone cold accurate with decent ammo.

I have a 1911 in .45 ACP, a Smith Model 57 in .41 Mag and a couple of 357 Mags in my gun room. I do not need a 10 MM. I would like to have one but there are other things that I want more. Anything the 10 mm can do the .41 Magnum can also do.

Besides the worst round for reloading IMHO is the 9mm. The case is so tiny that you must measure your powder charge very carefully and also keep an eagle eye on the OAL of the round. My collection of 9 mm brass grows every day and it is very varied. One day I sat down and went through a batch of brass and wrote down the various headstamps. I quit at 40.

The ones I like are the Federal Military rounds that just say FCC 09 or something like that. Once I umcrimp the primer pockets and weigh them individually I keep them segregated and only use them for serious target practice. Using these cases, with careful reloading and fired in my EAA witness I get a very accurate and dependable 9 mm round. It is good but my 1911 with a handloaded 200 GR LSWC is better. I can get 1.25" 5 shot group with the .45 and only have been able to get a 1.33" group with the Witness. Close but no cigar.

[Outer Rondacker]

Thanks for the info guys. Prob is here in NY dealers suck. Most dont have much in stock. If they do its glock glock glock or s&w m&p. I would like to put one in my hand before I drop the dime. Dont even get me started on how I look at the dealers in my area. I have a 1956 win model 70 featherweight in .243. Bore is clean. Gun has been used. Had the wife walk in to a few shops and act stupid and see what they would give her for it. Needless to say the best offer was $175. They told her it was junk and the bore was shot out and its not a quality gun. Funny. I will start my search for one in a shop. Phone calls as in everything is a long drive for me here where I live.

[greenwart]

I own 2 EAA witnesses in 10mm. I love both of them. The only downside is that they throw brass about 15-18 yards. I have been slowly taking off material of the ejector and now only throw it 8-10 yards.

My sons Glock drops them in a nice little pile.

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

I own 2 EAA witnesses in 10mm. I love both of them. The only downside is that they throw brass about 15-18 yards. I have been slowly taking off material of the ejector and now only throw it 8-10 yards.

My sons Glock drops them in a nice little pile.


Have you considered increasing the weight of the recoil spring on the EAA Witness?

[Love Life]

I have a Tanfoglio EAA Witness Match Elite in 9mm. This gun brand new had the best trigger I have ever pulled in any semi auto. It was even better then all the 1911 competition triggers I have tried. This is a full frame gun. It is big. It is heavy. It is stone cold accurate with decent ammo.

I have a 1911 in .45 ACP, a Smith Model 57 in .41 Mag and a couple of 357 Mags in my gun room. I do not need a 10 MM. I would like to have one but there are other things that I want more. Anything the 10 mm can do the .41 Magnum can also do.

Besides the worst round for reloading IMHO is the 9mm. The case is so tiny that you must measure your powder charge very carefully and also keep an eagle eye on the OAL of the round. My collection of 9 mm brass grows every day and it is very varied. One day I sat down and went through a batch of brass and wrote down the various headstamps. I quit at 40.

The ones I like are the Federal Military rounds that just say FCC 09 or something like that. Once I umcrimp the primer pockets and weigh them individually I keep them segregated and only use them for serious target practice. Using these cases, with careful reloading and fired in my EAA witness I get a very accurate and dependable 9 mm round. It is good but my 1911 with a handloaded 200 GR LSWC is better. I can get 1.25" 5 shot group with the .45 and only have been able to get a 1.33" group with the Witness. Close but no cigar.

I don't quite get how this post fits in with the rest of the thread...

[Love Life]

I own a mint Glock model 20 that has been abused with 22 rounds shot thru it. It currently resides inside my dresser. I need another 45LC.

Well...if you ever feel the need to sell the Glock to get a 45 LC....

[.5mv^2]

I hate just saying thanks. But thanks.


I use cast and I use the Glock 10mm barrel. You can use full power 10mm loads in the .40SW brass as long as you load it to the 10mm lengths. You just end up with slightly less brass contacting the bullet. The Glock has a strong extractor and basically headspaces on it instead of the case mouth, so you can get away with this. I've heard that you can't necessarily do that on some of the other 10mm handguns.

You can also shoot .40SW ammo in the 10mm Glock without changing the barrel to a .40SW barrel. You can't just drop a round in the barrel though -- you need to put it in the magazine in order to load it in the chamber.

This is what makes the G20 one of the more flexible handguns around, IMHO.

[Any Cal.]

I use cast and I use the Glock 10mm barrel. You can use full power 10mm loads in the .40SW brass as long as you load it to the 10mm lengths. You just end up with slightly less brass contacting the bullet. The Glock has a strong extractor and basically headspaces on it instead of the case mouth, so you can get away with this. I've heard that you can't necessarily do that on some of the other 10mm handguns.

You can also shoot .40SW ammo in the 10mm Glock without changing the barrel to a .40SW barrel. You can't just drop a round in the barrel though -- you need to put it in the magazine in order to load it in the chamber.

This is what makes the G20 one of the more flexible handguns around, IMHO.

Just a +1 on this, it is what was going to say. Also means that you have a choice of primer size, as .40 brass is SP, 10 is LP.Not always safe in guns other than Glocks, and is technically putting an increased load on the extractor, though I have 2-3k rds that say it doesn't matter.

*Remember* Even when using .40 brass, the OAL must be 1.260, or 10mm, length, or you are creating a bomb, just like any overcharged .40 or underlength 10mm.

[Stephen Cohen]

I used to own a Wyoming 10mm Auto, I shot 180 and 200gr cast all the time. The 10mm would totally penetrate bowling pins and render them soft and mushy, for this reason I was made shoot last with the 44mag guys.

[Any Cal.]

I get about 75% of the penetration in lumber with my own 10mm as my own 44, in flesh they may be a bit closer. In any case it was enough to make a hole in a bear even if he was hiding behind a small tree.

From a post in another thread about 10mm. Just adding it to the discussion. A custom boolit changes the nature of the 10 significantly, as long as you take its compact size into consideration.

[Love Life]

If I heal up soon enough I have a smorgasbord of phone books (odd because there are like 15 people in Nevada) that I plan to do penetration testing on. I plan to put a full 1 gallon jug followed by a red wood 2X10 followed by a book full of saturated phone books. I want to see what the difference is in the 200 gr WFN and 200 gr LSWC. I'll post the results.

[khmer6]

Is anyone using a Blade Tech Revolution holster?

I use it for the 29, works great. Wish I got one for the 20 too.

[Any Cal.]

Just read through this thread most of the way. The G20 is NOT fully supported, though the newer ones are more so than the older ones. SOME of the aftermarket barrels have more case support. Realistically, it doesn't matter unless you are shooting overpressure loads, if they are in the book, the case support is immaterial.


If I heal up soon enough I have a smorgasbord of phone books (odd because there are like 15 people in Nevada) that I plan to do penetration testing on. I plan to put a full 1 gallon jug followed by a red wood 2X10 followed by a book full of saturated phone books. I want to see what the difference is in the 200 gr WFN and 200 gr LSWC. I'll post the results.

Here is my prediction, will have to see if I am right:

The wfn will stay nose forward, the lswc will spin butt forward if you have a bit more water. Just into wood and possibly phonebooks, the swc will out penetrate due to the smaller nose. I used to pick swc out of a pond,and they would all lay butt forward. I had a 210 lfn go through 16"+ of water and then mostly through a 4x12 shortways, and was still nose forwad.

[Love Life]

To be honest, if I could get a bullet to predictably tumble in soft tissue then I would be a happy man. I'd take a bullet flipping end over end through a target over one that stays nose forward any day.

Its gotta be the lighter nose, larger shank, and length of the bullet that does it. Much like when the fast 22's hit soft tissue and tumble. Hmmm.

[Any Cal.]

I don't think the swc tumble, just flip 180°, as the heavy end overtakes the light end. I think that in wood the resistance to tumbling is far higher, so the skinny nose helps penetration. To tumble at lower velocity I would guess you would need a low sectional density, low twist rate, and a skinny nose. Even then, not sure it would 'tumble' like a 5.56, as you wouldn't have the velocity to burn. Almost wonder if it would just be a race to see how fast you could get it to start swapping ends. Staying nose forward w/ a large meplat would probably be just as good or better though, as it could be working more efficiently by keeping a bow wave ahead of it.

[6bg6ga]

Well...if you ever feel the need to sell the Glock to get a 45 LC....

Went to the local gun show yesterday and picked up a S&W 25-5 but I'm still needing another 45 LC