A quick "history" question on the Lyman 310 plier hand loaders

[bedbugbilly]

I'm still searching but haven't run across it yet (haven't waded all the way through CastPics yet either) . . .

Does anyone know the year that Lyman introduced and put the 310 type plier hand loaders on the market? Just curious . . .

At the time they were put on he market . . . were all the popular caliber dies (pistol & rifle) available or were they added over time (I'm sure some must have been added over time but I'm talking such popular calibers as 38 spl, 45 Colt, 30-30, etc.)?

Thanks.

[SSGOldfart]

When Lyman first bought out the original version more then 100 years ago, it was called "The Ideal Tool" and was sold as standard equipment along with the classic Sharps and Winchester rifles of that era...

[RicinYakima]

In 1947 Lyman combined the Ideal #3 (rimmed mid-sized cases) and the #10 (rimless cases) into one product. These were steel and without the bushing, but that was quickly added, marked for specific caliber it was to load. #3's and #10's were made until all parts were used. When the bushing was added, marks were only for L (large) and S (small) the height of the part the dies screwed into. There was an excellent write up by John Rockefeller in the 14th ed. of Handloader Digest. HTH, Ric

[Wayne Smith]

I don't know if you realized you asked two questions. One relates to the beginning of the nutcracker type reloading tool, initially caliber specific. These were made by Ideal and by some of the gun companies. Then they became generalized to multiple calibers I think by Ideal. Then follow what Ric said above. This relates specifically to the Lyman 310 tool.

[.22-10-45]

Hello bedbugbilly. Most of the major arms manufacturers sold re-loading sets for their arms..Remington. Sharps, Ballard, Winchester, etc. When Winchester stopped selling their tools..John Barlow who was working for Win. at the time, went over to the Ideal Mfg. Co. & began perfecting his tong type tool, pat. in 1884. It is believed 1885 was the begining of productiuon for these tools. These were made of mallable cast iron & handsomly nickle plated. The earliest tools..such as the .44-40, .38-40, .32-20, etc. were not adjustable. a fixed chamber with built in crimper was designed to load only one bullet style..usually the one from the attatched bullet mould. Later, both an adjustable..and a so called double adjustable chamber..which threadded into handles were available. The double adjustable are the nicest to work with as you have the option of not crimping. in later years..after the Lyman firm aquired Ideal. the No. 3 tool..double adjustable & the #10 tool..set up for rimless ctgs. were combined and called the 310. I have used these early tools with integeral mould (.22 WCF.) to cast..and those old timers must have had asbestos hands as the entire tool becomes scorching hot! had to wear very heavy insulated welders gloves..and I could still feel the heat! I use a dbl. adj. tool for bullet seating for an original Ballard in .25-25 Stevens. I do have some very early 310 tool sets..these were still malable iron and nickle plated..the seperate dies thread into handles just like the later blued steel & still later aluminum (YUCK!) handles.

[catskinner]

Winchester did not stop making loading tools until sometime after 1900. I've got an 1894 tool and mold marked 32WS which loads good.32 Winchester special ammo. 32 Special was introduced about 1902.

[vacek]

22-10-45

What was the overall quality of the bullet and the reload from this tool?

[mikeym1a]

22-10-45

What was the overall quality of the bullet and the reload from this tool?

I have never used one of these tools, however, I do have several boolits molds of that era, and they make excellent boolits. If you have one of these tools, with all the necessary parts, then it should make perfectly acceptable ammunition. The 22-10-45, if I'm not mistaken, was the .22 Winchester Center Fire, which eventually became the .22 Hornet. the .22 WCF was a black powder cartridge, and if I recall correctly the boolit diameter was .228. But, if you have that tool, the mold portion should throw the proper diameter boolit for the cartridge. Do you have this reloading tool, and if so, do you have the rifle that it was designed to feed? That would be neat if you did. And if so, post a pic of both. I'd like to see them. Old stuff is neat! mikey

[.22-10-45]

Hello, catskinner..Oh course you are right about Winchester tool date.. thats what happens when posting at 2 in morning! Now I'm not 100% sure of Barlow being at Win.? It's a shame theres so little info on these handloading pioneers.
In regards handload quality using that old nickled No. 3 25-25 Stevens...I am barely sizing case mouth..and only about 1/16" at that in a RCBS full-length die...threaded way-out of press..there isn't really any neck on these straight cases. I use the Ideal for bullet seating..and only 1 1/2 lower bands are inside case..bullets are cast in original Ideal S.C. #25716 &25720 these weigh around 100grs. I am shooting an original engraved Ballard No.3..left factory in early 1880's as a .22 rimfire..sometime in distant past was re-bored/chambered to .25-25 Stevens. This is a cast action..some say cast iron..I believe an early cast steel..regardless..I have decided to use only Holy black in it. Had to re-learn everything loading this one! made 36" drop tube from 1/4" brass tubing from hobby shop. Using Swiss 3FG, SPG lubed .258 dia. bullets. Sights on rifle are original Ballard mid-range vernier tang & windage adjustable front with inserts. I have only shot at 50yds. so far but best groups are 3/8"! I used a blow-tube between shots but grouping was around 1"..probably good enough for hunting..but for target accuracy 1 barely damp patch is pushed thru between shots. These old tong tools give up nothing in the accuracy dept. Winchester technicians used these same tools while doing all load development work for their ammunition thru the first quarter and beyond of 20th century. I have some tools that are just about new in the box..the fit and finish are beautiful..the term "plier tools" is worlds away from the quality..there is absolutly no "play" in the hinge, and there is a precision stiffness present even after 100years.

[jrmartin1964]

John H. Barlow was granted at least three patents which were assigned to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company: 229,310 (granted June 29, 1880); 233,062 (granted October 12, 1880); and 267,130 (granted November 7, 1882). So, it would appear that John H. Barlow was, indeed, at least associated with Winchester (if not outright employed there) from 1880 through 1882. The earliest patent, as far as I am aware, that he retained ownership of was 294,955 (granted March 11, 1884 - in spite of Ideal No.1 tools being marked with a patent date of February 11, 1884).

[William Yanda]

There is an antique reloading tool collectors assn with a website and everything. Some knowledgable and helpful folks there.