Using 30-06 Blank cases

[Ben]

Today, I decided to reload some of the 1,000 30-06 blank cases that I have on hand. ( I paid $10 per 1,000 about 35 years ago and they have just been sitting in a box since that day )

Some reloaders have loaded them to full potential in the 30-06 with absolutely zero problems . Some of this brass is 60 - 70 years old and I choose not to load this brass to those pressures and will use all this brass for low intensity, cast loads. This brass should last a long time using loads of this magnitude.

If I err, it will be on the side of safety.

I used a # 30 wire gauge drill bit to open the flash holes ( this brass will be loaded from this day forward with light cast loads only )

I'll include a test target fired at 50 yards , 5 shots. While I've seen my Tikka shoot much better than this, it is comforting to know if obtaining 06' brass someday for my 30-06 rifles becomes a problem, I can always fall back on this stash of 1,000 empty cases. If required, these loads could put meat on the table or keep a bad guy(s) at bay.

The load was 20 ea. military blank 30-06 cases with 11.5 grains of Russian Salute ( Russian Unique ) with a Lyman 311466 sized .310 with a Hornady g/c and a Winchester large pistol primer. ( The flash holes were drilled out with the # 30 drill bit ) The cast bullet was lightly engraving the rifling when the bolt closed.

Ben

_____________________

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/IMG_20140310_170900_zpsda1c381f.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/IMG_20140310_170900_zpsda1c381f.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/001_zpsa0a90121.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/001_zpsa0a90121.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/008_zps5586f59d.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/008_zps5586f59d.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/004_zps10fa8514.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/004_zps10fa8514.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/009_zps25a5938d.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/009_zps25a5938d.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/003_zps13be42b9.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/003_zps13be42b9.jpg.html)

[JCherry]

Ben,
Be sure to wear shooting glasses any time you use those blank shells. Though the low pressures you note should hopefully preclude any problems. 15 to 20 years ago I ran across some fired 30-06 military blank brass with mixed head stamps of the mid 50's which I resized to 8mm. I can't find my notes on what I loaded but my recollection is that I used commercial .323 jacketed 170 gr. bullets. At that time I was using WC852 (slow) and WC860 so the loads were not high pressure and I always load on the mild side. Upon firing, some of the heads expanded leaking gas past the primer which fell out upon extraction. Needless to say I discarded all of the blank shells.

I've heard that many of the blank cartridges were made from rejected brass. Please proceed cautiously.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Larry Gibson]

Back in the day '06 blanks "could" be made from reject cases IF such reject cases were available. If reject cases were not available when the blanks went into production the blank cases were made from standard cases. Production of blanks was not dependent on availability of reject cases. Some '06 blanks were reject cases but fact is most weren't.

Ben is using some pretty good safety measures and his results are note worthy.

Larry Gibson

[Bloodman14]

O.K., so what causes the ring? I am just curious, as I have never seen that before. I have some .303 blanks, which prompts the question.

[BruceB]

Most (if not all) US-made .30-06 blanks that I've seen had a cardboard wad in the case mouth, which was heavily-crimped to hold it in place.

This accounts for the "ring" in the neck.

The later 7.62 NATO blanks have an extended case, which is the full length of a ball 7.62 NATO round. The extended neck area is formed to a shape approximating that of a bullet, so the blanks will function through semi-auto and full-auto weapons (with a blank-firing attachment to build the needed pressure for functioning).

[bruce drake]

It was the crimp placed in the neck for the red lacquered cardboard disk to rest on to hold the blank powder in place after the neck was roll crimped.

[smokeywolf]

Nice pics Ben. Thanks for this post. I have maybe a few dozen '06 blanks. Don't foresee loading them in the near future, but who knows.

[Ben]

smokeywolf

I don't plan on loading hundreds of rounds of this. Yesterday, I loaded 20 rounds to test the waters with this concept.

I basically wanted to see what results were possible and use this stash of 1,000 pieces of brass as a " reserve " in the event it was needed someday in the future.

We don't know the future, I wouldn't have believed that there would be a day when I couldn't buy .22 LR ammo, I wouldn't have believed that there would be a day when primers and powder were not available. What does the future hold , .......I don't know ?

Ben

[shredder]

Nice pictures as always.

I am impressed with your high tech targets! Paper plates and a can of blaze orange spray with what looks like a 1 inch square mask. Couple that with 1000 discarded Govt. 30-06 blanks and I might just think you are a bit of a curmudgeon!

Keep up the great work!

[Ben]

Most reloaders are penny pinchers.

If you're going to have some fun , why not do it on a budget ?

[Dutchman]

Typical case damage from manufacturing process seen half-way down the case body.

http://images52.fotki.com/v1563/photos/2/28344/3886627/blank2_tif7836800848634078941-vi.jpg

http://images107.fotki.com/v70/photos/2/28344/3886627/m1909Blankl-vi.jpg

[Ben]

Dutchman

I have yet to see anything like that example ( w/ severe damage visible on the outside of the case ) in my particular lot ?

Ben

[fourarmed]

My dad had a case of '06 blanks in the fifties. He made .30-'06 and .270 loads out of them for years with no problems. Doesn't mean it always works that way, of course.

[Larry Gibson]

Probably a lot of changes in the way arsenals made/make cases since 1909..............

I've used a lot of blank '06 cases and 7.62 blank cases over the years to make some other cases (primarily 45 ACP shot shells) and never found any case as pictured. Had I found one with such an obvious defect it would have been discarded as with any other case with a defect. Not saying to use blank cases or not to use them.....that's the shooters choice.....just be conservative and use safety measures as Ben has if one does.

Larry Gibson

[wallenba]

I understand that the blank cartridges do not get the full annealing treatment also. Take care.

[Ben]

Thanks to all of you for all your safety concerns offered on this topic. I always appreciate reloaders who show a real concern for safety.

These loads that I'm currently using the blank brass for will rival pressures developed by the 38 Special. Considering these loads are being used in rifles that are capable of safely handling 60,000 psi, and each of the rifles have excellent gas venting properties, I'm not too concerned about a safety threat with 17,000 psi loads.

Now if I was loading at 47,500 psi with this brass, .....that would be another story entirely.

Ben

[Longone]

I received 8 of these blanks in a trade awhile back. They are mixed headstamps.
1) EW 43
2) WCC 52
1) SL 56
1) SL 54
1) TW 53
1) SL 4
1) WRA 57

Kinda neat to display, not enough to do anything with. Longone

[Ben]

Yes, thanks for posting the pics !

Ben

[TXGunNut]

Why do you drill out the flash holes, Ben? Great thread, BTW.

[C. Latch]

Where do you get the Russian powder?

[Scharfschuetze]

Drilling out the flash hole in bottleneck cases for very light loads helps preserve the case's ability to head space properly. Apparently the detonation of the primer causes the case to jump forward and eventually push a rimless bottleneck case's shoulder back. With high pressure loads, the pressure from the powder combusting negates this, but in low pressure loads there is not enough pressure to do so and the larger flash hole helps equalize pressure between the primer pocket and the case and thus keep the shoulder from collapsing back.

A second opinion promulgates that the larger flash hole helps with uniform ignition.

My chronograph results are inconclusive over the larger flash hole for ignition uniformity, but drilling out the flash holes to save the case's shoulder datum line to head measurement is something well worth doing for cases segregated for light or squib loads.

[Ben]

Where do you get the Russian powder?

I don't think it is available anymore.
Seems like I bought mine from Hightec several yrs. ago?

[Ben]

Drilling out the flash hole in bottleneck cases for very light loads helps preserve the case's ability to head space properly. Apparently the detonation of the primer causes the case to jump forward and eventually push a rimless bottleneck case's shoulder back. With high pressure loads, the pressure from the powder combusting negates this, but in low pressure loads there is not enough pressure to do so and the larger flash hole helps equalize pressure between the primer pocket and the case and thus keep the shoulder from collapsing back.

A second opinion promulgates that the larger flash hole helps with uniform ignition.

My chronograph results are inconclusive over the larger flash hole for ignition uniformity, but drilling out the flash holes to save the case's shoulder datum line to head measurement is something well worth doing for cases segregated for light or squib loads.

Scharf,

That is a very good explanation of the " Why's " on the drilling out of the flash hole on cases intended for light loads.

Many thanks,
Ben

[C. Latch]

I don't think it is available anymore.
Seems like I bought mine from Hightec several yrs. ago?

Huh. I'd never heard of such a thing.

[Larry Gibson]

Primary reason for drilling the flash holes is to prevent the should from setting back creating cartridge headspace problems and induced misfires along with failure to extract the unfired round. The misfires and failure to extract occur in push feeds mostly when the headspace is reduced to the point the ejector pushes the case forward into the chamber not allowing the firing pin to sufficiently strike the primer and for the extractor then not to snap over the rim.

It is well proven the headspace with LR primed cases can be reduced to cause this in as little as 3 - 4 firings dependent on some variables. The extractor on a CF bolt will keep the case back against the bolt face for reliable firing and extraction. In essence the case, after 3-4 very reduced load firings, is head spacing on rim to extractor dimension instead of the should datum line. Of course this does not apply to rimmed and belted cases which should headspace sufficiently off the rim and belt.

The drilled out flash hole will improve ignition in cases of .308W or larger when used with very small amounts of fast burning powders under very light for caliber bullets. A good example is with 2.7 - 3.2 gr Bullseye under 90 - 118 gr cast bullets in .308W through '06 sized cases. The flash gets into the large and almost empty case perhaps a bit quicker but is more directly filling the entire case with the flash. That ignites the powder a bit more uniformly and reduces the "powder position" problem quite a bit.

The problem with almost all chronographs on the market is the shorter but handier screen spacing. The closer the screens are the less accurate the readings are compared to larger screen spacing. I have 3 Oehler chronographs with screen spacing of 2, 4 and 5 feet. I can also set the spacing to 10 feet. The accuracy of the larger spacing is noticeably better in that it gives much finer readings of the actual fps. Kind of like the difference in measuring with a caliper and a micrometer. With the larger screen spacing I can detect the improved ignition between cases with drilled flash holes and those with out. It is a small difference yes, but still there and beneficial to me with such loads, especially when hunting/shooting small game afield. The lessoned "powder positioning" problem is noticeable in that application.

I also have thoroughly pressure tested .308W cases with drilled flash holes (I used a large #28 drill which is about the largest diameter you'll want to use) with 311291s loaded over 4895 powder. I pushed those up to 2200+ fps and 30,000+ psi w/o any indication of pressure problems or gas leakage around the primers. The ES and SD of each test load was very consistent with identical case w/o the flash holes drilled tested at the same time. I'm not recommending cases with flash holes drilled for such use by any means. I'm just pointing out that many times what we think is happening or could happen really isn't happening.

Larry Gibson

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, guys. Very enlightening. I guess that means there's no need to do so for my light (2400) 30-30 and 32WS loads.

[Scharfschuetze]

Correct TXGunNut.

The rim prevents the case from going forward so your fire formed shoulders will stay where they're supposed to be if you're not setting them back during the sizing operation.

[Larry Gibson]

Correct TXGunNut.

The rim prevents the case from going forward so your fire formed shoulders will stay where they're supposed to be if you're not setting them back during the sizing operation.

+1.

Larry Gibson

BTW; worked a deal today at the local scrap yard for 450 lbs of lead/alloy. About 150 of it is sheet lead and the rest is dive weights which appear from initial scratch test to be WW alloy. What are you bringing down to shoot?

[Scharfschuetze]

Hey Larry,

Given the topic of this thread, you can be sure of seeing an M1 Garand in the arsenal when I get there. No blank brass, but lots of LC-67 brass with both bullets and boolits.

Rocks beware!

[Larry Gibson]

Down here.....so many to shoot.....so little time........

Larry Gibson

[0802]

Is 20.0 gr of 2400 a small enough load to drill out the flash holes with a #30 drill?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Larry Gibson]

What cartridge?
What weight cast bullet?
FL sized cases or fire formed?

[0802]

30-06 neck sized for a Ruger M77 and M1903, lee clone of 31141.

Sorry, this thread was linked to another post where that was listed, I forgot I was posting in a different thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Larry Gibson]

If the cases are used in both rifles and the M77 is a push feed I'd drill the flash holes. The M1903 and other controlled round feed actions will allow the case headspace to set back only as much as the rim thickness to where the extractor holds it back. There is usually enough firing pin protrusion (if within spec) that misfires don't occur. It's in push feed actions where the case headspace shortening can become a problem. I'd also suggest a Dacron filler with 16 - 20 gr 2400 under a 170 gr or lighter cast bullet in the 30-06.

[Greg S]

Just to throw this out there, I basically did the same with 6500 pcs 7.62 German blank ammo. The flash holes were tight, PPC flash hole so I found a .081 flash hole reamer from sinclair which has a small and large guide to center the reamer in the primer cup.

[0802]

Thanks, I have run this load for a while but not in high quantities. It's very good in the Ruger and the M1903 looks promising. I will try the Dacron; I've never used it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Greg S]

Just to throw this out there, I basically did the same with 6500 pcs 7.62 German blank ammo. The flash holes were tight, PPC flash hole so I found a .081 flash hole reamer from sinclair which has a small and large primer cup guide to center the reamer in the primer cup?

Never mind, #30 wire gauge is .1285

[bob208]

I form 7.63 mauser out of blank brass.

[0802]

I ordered some #30 drills do open he flash holes, they are significantly larger than I expected. Please confirm I that these are right, I measured them with a micrometer, they are .127 or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bob208]

that is the correct size.

[Larry Gibson]

That is the largest hole that still allows enough ledge for primer anvil feet to sit on.

[Don_Parsons]

Tag for this Ought-6 shooter North of the 49th

Thanks for the info as I continue my Adventures.

Don