Marlin 1894 (41 mag) with ejection issues...need HELP !

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was at the range today.
the first time out with this 41 Mag, Marlin 1894.

I am having some ejection issues with it.

Last weekend, while setting up to reload some 41, I made a dummy cartridge to find the optimal COL (Cartridge Overal Length) for this rifle. This was the first time I tried cycling this gun since I bought it, and I noticed this rifle didn't always eject the cartridge.

OK, when I loaded that dummy round...The first cartridge length I tried was a bit long, I did that on purpose to engrave the bullet into the rifling so I could get a idea when the lands start. Anyway, the bullet stuck in the barrel, when I tried to open it with the lever, the case just stayed in the chamber. I don't recall exactly how hard it opened, but it couldn't have been too difficult, because I remember if I had to force it open...and I wouldn't have done that anyway if it was too difficult.

So, once it was open, I used a cleaning rod to get the dummy round out. It wasn't too difficult to remove. Could I have bent the extractor finger when the dummy round got stuck ? I wouldn't think so, but again, I am not a gunsmith or Levergun expert.

Well anyway, I loaded some up and I finally got out to the range today, to test fire it. I had some other ammo with different cast bullets, that I reloaded for revolver as well as some factory ammo. The "shooting" part went great, but I had the same ejection issues with all the ammo, that I had when cycling it in my house.

Here is what is happening, whether the cartridge is fired or not...

If I operate the Lever 'faster' than normal
It will NOT extract the cartridge or spent case out of the chamber. It is NOT stuck in the chamber, but with the slide all the way open, the cartridge will either just slide out or
in the case of being fired where the spent case has expanded, it won't slide out, but will come out easily by prying with my finger nail.

If I operate the Lever 'Normally'
It will randomly extract or not extract the cartridge or spent case.

If I operate the Lever 'extremely' slow and gentle
It will extract and eject the cartridge or spent case every time.


Ok, do you think I bent the extractor finger ?

Could the extractor finger be worn ? This gun looks like new, so I think that's highly unlikely

Is there a spring on the extractor finger ?
Could it be a weak spring ? (this gun is 25 years old)
OR... is it it's own spring ?

I also thought maybe there's crud in the notch of the barrel/receiver, where the extractor fits into, when the slide is closed, that area looked clean, but I have cleaned it anyway...no help.

Could the factory have not machined that area properly ?
Maybe this has had extraction issues since in was new in 1989 ?
I have sent an e-mail to the seller, and am awaiting a reply.

Thanks in advance for you help.
Jon

[osteodoc08]

Sounds like you need a new extractor.

Ive got an 1894S and an 1894CCL in 41 Mag and love them both.

PM sent

[Bullshop]

The extractor is a spring. It very unlikely that you damaged it with one pop over. Pop over is what happens with a failier to extract. The extractor just pops over the rim then being a spring snaps back. It may well just be your brass or any number of things. Try to get a look at the extractor with an empty case in the chamber to see if the extractor if fully engaging the rim. Its it possible you need a new extractor and that is a simple fix. Its is just as possible that because as you say the gun looks new that there is something obstruction the full engagement of the extractor to the rim. Could be a machining burr that just needs cleaned up.
It may just as well be the edge of the extractor needs cleaned too because it sounds like its loosing it hold on the rim before the rim hits the ejector. That sounds like a poor or partial purchase of the extractor on the rim.
So those are the first two things I would look at, the extractor seat where it rests on the barrel shank and the extractor claw itself.
Also the spring back strength. Use a small screw driver or something under the extractor to see if it snaps back. If not for what ever reason its too weak and needs replaced.
It may be that you have an extractor for the 44 mag rim size and it just isn't catching enough of the smaller rim diameter of the 41.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

osteodoc08,
Thanks for the PM'd link for slide disassembly. Looks easy enough.

Bullshop,
thanks for the tips of where to look for first.

I'll dig into this tonight and report back,
I need to spend some more time outside in this beautiful 44º weather.


PS, the seller contacted me, and said he had no issues in the 20 or so rounds he fired (he owned it several years). He said the original owner of the gun said he never a problem either...I guess he rarely fired it. Wholly smoke, I fired 100rds with it today...poor gun just hasn't ever seen this kind of work out :)

[ReloaderFred]

It's easy to remove the bolt on a Marlin 1894, as it's designed to be cleaned from the chamber end. Open the lever a fraction and just remove the lever screw. Pull the lever out of the action and then remove the bolt, being careful to not lose the ejector, which sits in a groove under the left side of the bolt.

After you get the bolt out, inspect it carefully and see if there is anything on the boltface that would interfere with the seating of the case against the face. Then inspect the extractor and see if the hook is square to the bolt face, and if there is enough tension to hold onto the rim when you place a case into the bolt face and under the extractor hook.

There is a round pin that holds the extractor into the hole of the bolt. Use a pin punch to push out that pin and remove the extractor from the hole. Inspect the hole and see if there is any debris in there that would hold the extractor back away from the rim of the case. Thoroughly clean out the hole while you've got the extractor out of it.

If any of these things cause a problem, they can be fixed pretty easily. If the extractor needs to be replaced, it's a pretty cheap part and easily installed. If it doesn't have enough tension, you can bend it to provide more.

I've got three Marlins in .41 Magnum, and none of them display the issues you described, so my guess is it's one of the things listed above. It could even be rust in the extractor hole, too.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Had it apart and back together...Many times.
All looks good, nothing looks bad, Extractor, sharp point and square, spring tension is good. Also, the extractor holds a shell casing 'tight' when the bolt was out of the gun.

The only thing that looks suspect is, when a case is in the chamber, the 'extractor seat' is made so the case rim can't easily get caught by the extractor. The chamber entry is chamfered a little bit, making the case rim sit slightly inside.
ALSO,
The extractor has a compound angle ground into the surface that rides against the shank's extractor seat...almost like a jewish nose.

I did a bit of filing on the compound angle I mention on the extractor and a little bit on the extractor seat, as that was quite rough on one part.
This seemed to help a little, indicating to me this is the problem. Hand filing with needle files takes forever, but the alternate of a dremel and taking too much would be a bad thing. I will do a little more hand filing tomorrow. But before that, I plan to wipe the dust of of my 44 mag 1894, that I rarely shoot and have never taken apart and pull that bolt out and do a comparison on that extractor seat. and see if the chamber beveling is typical.

[armexman]

JonB, you are wasting way too much time and money on this recalcitrant gun!!
Send it to me and give me an idea on what you want the check or MO to have written down on the money line!
I am sure that it will be in more capable hands here in CO;)

[osteodoc08]

JonB, you are wasting way too much time and money on this recalcitrant gun!!
Send it to me and give me an idea on what you want the check or MO to have written down on the money line!
I am sure that it will be in more capable hands here in CO;)

I'm sure $2K should do it. Then he can "upgrade" to the LTDSS. Last one went for under that on GB. Of course I've seen them go for over $2500 as well! Oh how I'd love a LTDSS.

JonB, Id still order another extractor, especially if your gonna be home 'smithing on it.

[bikerbeans]

JonB,

I bought a 444s a couple of years ago and it did the same thing. I bought an extractor from Numrich for not much money and the problem was solved. Hope your fix is as easy as mine.

BB

[ReloaderFred]

osteodoc08,

Just out of curiosity, what are you referring to as the LTDSS? If it's the limited edition rifles made for Davidson's several years ago, I've got the complete set, unfired, all with the same serial number.

Fred

PS: Jon, I'd just go ahead and order another extractor, since they're pretty cheap. I always keep an extra in my tool kit for my Marlins.

[osteodoc08]

osteodoc08,

Just out of curiosity, what are you referring to as the LTDSS? If it's the limited edition rifles made for Davidson's several years ago, I've got the complete set, unfired, all with the same serial number.


Yes, Davidsons made a small run in the popular calibers in stainless steel over a few years. I'd love to have one of the 41 Mags. I've got the Cowboy Carbine Limited which is an awesome one in its own right, but I love the stainless and black laminate.

[ReloaderFred]

OK, that's the set I've got, then. I've got the .357, .41, .44 and .45 Colt rifles, all new in the box. After I bought the first one in .357, they offered me the option of getting the rest of the series, as they became available, with the same serial number, XXXX003, so how could I refuse?? It took a couple of years for them all to be made. There were 351 of each model made, so they are rare. The .357's, the first model they made for the series, were produced in 2005, and the others came after.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[osteodoc08]

OK, that's the set I've got, then. I've got the .357, .41, .44 and .45 Colt rifles, all new in the box. After I bought the first one in .357, they offered me the option of getting the rest of the series, as they became available, with the same serial number, XXXX003, so how could I refuse?? It took a couple of years for them all to be made. There were 351 of each model made, so they are rare. The .357's, the first model they made for the series, were produced in 2005, and the others came after.

Hope this helps.

Fred

You lucky dog! If you ever decide to sell the 41, keep me in mind.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well, Problem solved !
I didn't take any more metal off the extractor after the first attempt to remove the compound angle/jewish nose (on the surface that rides against the shank's extractor seat) that I mentioned in post #6. I decided what I had done should be enough when I compared it to my 1894 44 Mag, it's a similar vintage (bought it new/unused in 1994).

So, I concentrated my efforts on the barrel shank's extractor seat. That area was still very rough and when compared to my 44 Mag, it looked like it needed to be filed down more. It was a devil getting in there, the only thing I had to do so, was a set of chinese riffling files. Actually, for chinese tools, they aren't half bad...I could only stroke it about 1/4" and the going was tough. It seemed like I wasn't removing any metal.

I set it aside for a few hours, then a thought came to me, When I hand file chain saw chains, a little oil on the file makes all the difference...So the file doesn't gall up. So I added some machine tool oil to the file, that made the file easy to clean the filings off of, to keep the file clean and cut better. Yep, adding the oil was the trick for sure.

After that discovery, it took about 20 minutes of filing, to get the 41 shank's extractor seat to look like the 44 shank's extractor seat (boy are my fingers sore...like a touch of carpal tunnel).

Now the gun cycles perfect with new brass as well as really old worn brass with rounded rims. I took it out again yesterday evening and put another 100 rds through it. This thing is starting to cycle a lot smoother also.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions,,,especially Bullshop.
Jon

[ReloaderFred]

Don't you just love it when you can take care of the problem yourself? You saved money and have the satisfaction of knowing you did it.

osteodoc08,

When I decide to finally sell those Marlins, it's going to be as a complete set, since they're all the same serial number. Sorry, but I don't want to break them up.

Fred

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Don't you just love it when you can take care of the problem yourself? You saved money and have the satisfaction of knowing you did it.
...snip
YES, but more importantly, learning about how simple the 1894 action is. I've owned the 44 Mag since 1994 and never read about field stripping it and obviously Never field stripped it, for fear that it's too difficult. That is almost too embarrassing to admit :oops:

[ReloaderFred]

That's very true. The first time I stripped one all the way down I was struck by how much it looked like a naked rat without it's forearm and stock on. It's really a very simple design, unlike the Winchester 94 and even the 92.

The good part is it makes them easy to work on, and they smooth up really, really nice. My wife's .357 1894 is slightly smoother than mine, and you can work the lever with just your finger tips. She can shoot 10 rounds in about 3 seconds with it and hit all her targets (SASS). She prefers her Marlin to a shotgun for a house gun, and that says a lot. Now if I could only convince her to clean her own guns.........

Fred

[Bullshop]

Great news! Your very welcome.