Some new Victory Model pic's :-)

[Buckshot]

..............Basicly playing with the new camera. Checking the closeup function which sometimes I can get to work right and sometimes not. I'm sure it's the camera and surely NOT me:-)

http://www.fototime.com/4D6280719DF2FAE/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8F3A1A58BE06A7F/standard.jpg

One of the closeups that didn't come out was the 'United States Property' on the left side of the topstrap.

http://www.fototime.com/ED99ACE3DB8D4DD/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/3E0EE07A3D785CC/standard.jpg

If I'm not mistaken I think the FTR means "Factory Thorough Repair" and the '54' I take to be 1954. The broad arrows are British military acceptance, but I don't know what the D/\D is or the 3 markings to the left of the bottom broad arrow. In the left photo of the butt, the small GHD to the left of the lanyard ring I take to be the military inspector's initials.

http://www.fototime.com/E912A9B4FB274D4/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/0258E21C085A14F/standard.jpg

This a British holster I got on E-Bay for $12. They also threw in a duty belt with it. You can't make out the date well in the photo but it is 1943 or 1944 and obviously never issued. If it was it must not have ever been used.

http://www.fototime.com/B2592EA4EE7605A/standard.jpg

And here it is buttened up with the pistol inside.

..................Buckshot

[NSP64]

Cool gun.:-D does it say 38 s&w ctg on the barrel? now that is different from the 38 spcl correct?

[HABCAN]

Victory model S&W's in British Commonwealth service were chambered for the .38/200, a jacketed (Hague convention) 200 gr. bullet in the shorter and fatter S&W case. Most bores were ~.360 dia. We had a lot of them here after the war, and TONS of ammo, and we young'uns decided then that the Brits never really did understand what handguns were all about. Some have had their cylinders bored out to accept the .38 Spl. cartridge, but without properly-sized handloads, accuracy is mediocre at best. YMMV.

[BCB]

Buckshot,

Got one exactly (almost) like that one except my serial number is about 170000 less than yours. Mine is a 38 S. & W. SPECIAL CTG (right side of barrel). No “United States Property” stamp. No other markings at all except “MADE IN USA” on right side. That holster is neat as I carry mine in an Uncle Mike’s nylon one, but the little Model 10 doesn’t really fit well in it, yet it is functional.

Mine loves the 358429 with 6.0 grains of AL-8 for a muzzle velocity of about 650 fps.

What is interesting about mine is the fact that it has been in my family for a good many years—ain’t sure how long. BUT, my great aunt worked for the U.S. Postal service many, many years ago and she carried the little Model 10 in her purse. She worked at a Railroad depot and the mail got delivered there, or maybe the local post office was just there also.

Don’t know if she had to use it against any aggressive men! or not, but I do remember here in the 1950’s coming to family reunions and she was definitely the talk of the reunion—I was just a kid! I remember her being quit “flashy” for the times…

Regardless, I got the Smith and it shoots very well…BCB

[Scrounger]

BCB, many years ago, even before I started at the PO, they had what they called RPOs and HPOs. The HPOs were basically large buses or tractor-trailers which traveled major hiways picking up and dropping off mail in towns as it traveled back and forth on its route. There were clerks working in the back sorting the mail as it traveled. For security reasons at least one of them had to be armed "to protect the mail." RPOs were railroad cars doing the same thing. That is likely where your great-aunt worked. The system was changed in the 50s and early 60s whereby the largest city in a geographical area became a "Sectional Center" and all the cities in that area shipped their originating mail to the Sectional Center where it was sorted and sent to its destination. That actually slowed down the mail a bit. Then in the 80s when they got opto-electronic scanners to read bar codes that slowed it down a lot more. Now all the mail without barcodes is separated and shipped to a private contractor who puts barcodes on it and returns it for 'normal' handling. At least that was the way the last I heard... Sorry about the seminar...

[Swamprat1052]

Buckshot, what kind of camera did you buy? It must be a goodun. Great pics.

Swamprat

[BCB]

Scrounger,
Thanks for the bit of postal history. So there might actually be some "truth" to my great aunt being armed "to protect the mail" and maybe not herself from "aggressive guys"! at her place of work!!!BCB

[9.3X62AL]

There were a number of service-grade 38 caliber revolvers made during WWII by both Colt and S&W. My grandmother was a federal police officer during the war at what was then the Norton Air Materiel Command site--later Norton AFB--now demilled. Her sidearm was a Colt Commando Model in 38 Special--little sister has it now, and it is an Official Police lacking high-grade finish. It is a WONDERFUL shooter, and although its external finish is modest, the lockwork is "V-spring Colt" in all respects.

I have a companion piece to Buckshot's pictured Victory Model, also in 38 S&W. Its throats are a consistent .363", so it is fed Fat 38's from a Beagled Lyman #358430 that weigh ~200 grains in soft alloy (half WW/half lead). These will keep the dinger plate spinning at 25 yards, but I have no illusions about its stopping power. There are shooting pursuits where massive and decisive stopping power--Mach 1+ velocities--and tacticool mall ninja bling aren't called for. That would be about 95% of my handgun range time.

Rick, your photography is first-rate.

[lathesmith]

Buckshot, here is your "United States Property", and a few other markings; please see attached images. My side markings are very similar to yours. I read a few years ago that my Victory model had been shipped to Australia after the war, and finally arrived back in the states after doing a stint there. And yes, note this revolver has "19" in addition to "54" which of course means "1954" as you surmised. This one is serial V13XXXX, and has the "flaming bomb" along with the inspector's intials--I believe yours also has this, though I can't tell for sure. This is a great old gun, and one of my favorites. A heckuva neat piece of history!
lathesmith

[Buckshot]

.............LAthesmith, yes those markings "United States Property" and " 38 S&W ctg" do exactly mimic those on my pistol (and 9.3x62AL's). I understand that the first shipment of these to leave the US bound for Britain were sent or re-shipped to South Africa. I'm hoping someone knows about that DD seperated by the broad arrow mark, and the others.

I have another Victory model that my dad gave to me before they moved to Arizona. Below:

http://www.fototime.com/3242183B1B0826F/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8706406EC5FA8D9/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/50ABC2CCC36BAEB/standard.jpg

This one is blued. On the underside of the butt the serial number repeats. There is no inspector's initials. The lanyard ring had been cut off and the threaded remnant in the butt has been peened to retain it in the hole. There is no 'United STates Property' stamp on it, nor any others besides that on normal S&W revolvers.

My dad bought it from a California Highway Patrolman in 1964. The barrel has been shortened and the front sight was removed and very expertly resoldered on. I am the guilty party for filing the notch in the backside of it :-). At sometime in it's past it has had the chambers done with a 38 Special reamer as it WILL accept that cartridge.

The Parkerized one will not. 38 Specials fired in the blued one aren't very accurate and the casewalls expand, and then about 1/10" short of the casemouths return to normal OD. Looking into the chambers from the rear you can see a double step. First would be the remnant of the one for the 38 S&W. The second is that left by the Special reamer.

http://www.fototime.com/48343BFA434AB36/standard.jpg

The above is a 10 rnd group I fired with the blued one. This was with the Lyman 35863 WC cast of pure lead at .363" abd with a hollow base swaged in. Obviously running that 38 Special reamer in didn't do it any harm in it's original chambering. Maybe that double ramp in the long chamber helps? :-)

So would this be a Victory model that was sold on the civilian market? It's serial number is quite a bit higher then the Parkerized one. The lack of martial markings leads me to think so.

.................Buckshot

[lathesmith]

My understanding is that ALL Victory models were originally parkerized. This gun was once quite common, and lots of them were refinished, rechambered, and otherwise "improved" after the war. On mine, that "United States Property" and some of the other markings are quite shallow, and could easily be polished off if the gun were to be refinished. I once did an internet search on this gun, and a few sites ID'ed all the markings, but I don't now recall what the D D was for. Also, I think these British guns were part of Lend-Lease, I guess the Isles had disarmed its civilian population before the war, and bought a bunch of guns from the US to "re-arm" the civilian population to "stop" the German invasion that was nearly certain to come. Can you imagine?
I'm also trying out my wife's new camera, I could never take close-ups like that before! Thankfully, my gun has the original chambers, but it did have checkered grips when I first got it. I discovered later these could not have been original, but they were period-correct, which leads me to believe they were installed by an armory re-furbisher somewhere. Anyway, I kept these checkered grips, I have seen them fetch some premium dollars on ebay, though I am not interested in selling them. I found that pair of Victory grips on the 'bay, and though they have the wrong serial number(amazing, even the grip panels on these old 'Smiths are serial numbered!) this gun now has the "correct" grips.
Notice on your dad's gun the rather crude metal work where the serial number is stamped on the bottom. This is very similar to my Victory revolver, and I believe one of the reasons for parkerizing. I don't think S&W would have blued such a gun originally,I think it has to be a later re-finish. Besides, the barrel has been chopped, so it has almost certainly been refinished. Though it has limited collector value, it is still a very interesting piece, and like all old good shootin' 'Smiths, it reeks of nostalgia!
lathesmith

[Catshooter]

All you Victory owners; the Smith forum (not the company) can outfit you with everything you might want to know about your pistols.

You're right Al, they're not very tacticool, kinda nice, ain't it?

The poor Brits are even more dis-armed now than they were then. Some people never learn.


Cat