.45 Colt Die Question

[moose30273]

My Lee .45 colt dies are swaging my .454 sized cast bullets and Remington hollow base bullets down to .452 when I seat them. Is this because my dies have a .452 or smaller expander. Or is it something to do with the die body itself? Is there a simple remedy? Is there a modern set of dies which are made for loading the larger bullets in the .45 Colt. I feel reasonably sure this is an easy question for someone out there. Thanks Moose.

[enfieldphile]

Moose,

After which operation and which die are you measuring that measurement?

Are you using the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die? The Lee 4-die set is the carbide sizing/depriming die, powder through expander die, seater die and Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. I like all the dies except the Carbide Factory Crimp die. The Carbide Factory Crimp die seemed to be over squeezing the completed round. I replaced it with a Redding Profile Crimp die.

[moose30273]

Pulled bullets from loaded rounds. Lee three die set. I will mess with them in the morning and see if the seating die is the prob.

[462]

I got rid of all Lee handgun dies, because the seating dies were putting the squeeze on .358", 432", and .452" boolits, replacing them with trouble-free and better quality Hornady, Lyman, and RCBS.

Granted the .432" boolits are a mite fat-for-caliber -- certainly the .358" and .452" aren't. A handgun die that is not manufactured to accommodate cast boolits is useless.

Note: Until I got a set of real .44 dies, I enlarged the Lee die to accept the .432" boolits.

[RobS]

Any die that sizes the brass down far enough and a person uses a soft boolit, its possible that the brass will swage the boolit down to a smaller size. Harder boolits can help with this as pressure of the brass won't swage the boolit down. If a person uses a softer boolit then either the brass resizing die needs to not size the brass as much or more commonly a person needs to get themselves an expander die that will expand the resized case the FULL length of the boolit being seated. Lee's powder through expander die doesn't expand the brass far enough down nor large enough for soft .454 boolits.

It is not necessarily the sizing die nor the seating dies as I own mainly Lee dies and seat .454-.455 boolits. RCBS does make cowboy dies but myself I've added in the Lyman M-die that I modify the spud ends to .002 under my boolit diameter on air cooled wheel weight boolit alloy which is typically 11-12 BHN.

[rockshooter]

Lee makes a collet-type .45 colt crimper that works just like their rifle ones.
Loren

[UNIQUEDOT]

The expander is the culprit! get yourself an RCBS cowboy expander die for about $25.00. It's possible that your seating die is defective though, but I've only experienced this once with a Lee seating die. The Lee seater is far better than any of my Lyman or RCBS seaters and the Hornady is not even worth mentioning unless you get sleeves from the custom shop. If your seater is defective or you just want to try different dies you can get the RCBS cowboy 3 die set for around $60.00. Even though I despise Hornady dies I do desire a set of their cowboy dies to see how they compare to RCBS, but even so they are designed for .452 bullets and would need parts from the custom shop to properly load .454 bullets.

[w5pv]

So far I haven't had any problems with the Lee dies in 45 colt after I got them adjusted correctly.I haven't had any reason to pull the boolits.I put a very light crimp on the boolits.

[moose30273]

Okay, the problem begins with the expander. I resized a case, belled the mouth and loaded a as cast Lyman 454190 bullet into it. I did not use the seating die, just pushed the bullet into the case by the nose on the bottom of my turret between dies on my press. The bullet started out .4555 and after being pulled it came out at .4525. Are the RCBS Cowboy dies still being made ? Is there a better suggestion? Regular RCBS dies and order a .454 expander direct from them. Thanks Moose.

[MTtimberline]

Get the RCBS cowboy dies and you won't be disappointed.

[RobS]

Merely need an expander die unless you want an entirely new set of dies. The Lyman M die for 45 Cal pistol does not have a large enough diameter spud either being right at .4499" but there are members here who can make you the spud part that screws into the adjuster bolt. I turned down a Lyman M die spud meant for the 45 rifle to where I wanted it so that's an option. I also turned down the head and stem part of a bolt to my needed diameter and used it in an extra Lee powder through die.

I once purchased the RCBS Cowboy brass sizing die and it sized the brass nearly the same as my Lee die so giving some info. there that this die alone won't work. I don't know about the RCBS Cowboy expander die diameter though nor do I know about their regular 45 expander dies either. Knowing what diameter they are is going to be what you need to know. If you are working with soft lead of 10 BHN or so you will need an expander .001 under your boolit diameter and just as long as what you plan on seating.

Another very viable option is to have a forum member make you a custom powder through expander for your lee die. I remember some time back reading about someone doing this on the forum.

[RobS]

Here is a link to some custom Lee expander plugs for the powder through dies however they would need to be modified but this is what I was talking about.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1

[RobS]

Here is a thread with forum members who may be able to help with the Lee expanders.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?184869-Custom-Expander-Plug-for-Lee-Dies

[moose30273]

Thanks for all the great information. Have ordered a three expander plugs from TOTW. If I mess up three times I will get one of our members here to make me an expander. However, I am pretty sure though that is within my skill range. Will update you when I can. Thanks again, Moose

[RobS]

Definitely interested in your results modifying those TOTW powder through expanders. Keep us posted.

[oldfart1956]

Definitely interested in your results modifying those TOTW powder through expanders. Keep us posted. Just a heads-up here. The expanders from Track of the wolf are not powder-thru. They are solid...not drilled for powder thru. I use them and have drilled them for powder-thru dropping so it can be done easily enough. Audie..the Oldfart..

[Char-Gar]

I use Lyman 310 tool expanders in .452 or .454 depending on size of bullet. There are used in the bench press with thread adapter. Bullets are seated and crimped with RCBS dies. I have no problems with bullets being sized down when bullet seating or crimping.

[DougGuy]

I take it you are seating/crimping in separate operations? I only use the crimp part of the seater die to straighten the case mouth as it seats the boolit. I let the crimp die do the rest.

[oldfart1956]

Hey Moose...I knew I saw it somewhere. Go up to the Titan Reloading website at the top of the page and click on it. Then click on "Service Parts." Then click on "Reloading Die Parts". Scroll around in there and they list an expander for the powder thru die for 45/70. It already has the hole. :) Now all you need do is downsize the expander part to .453/.454 (or whatever size you need) as I assume it is .456/.458 for the 45/70. And for about $3...! A bargain! Audie...the Oldfart.

[RobS]

Just a heads-up here. The expanders from Track of the wolf are not powder-thru. They are solid...not drilled for powder thru. I use them and have drilled them for powder-thru dropping so it can be done easily enough. Audie..the Oldfart..

Yep. I used an extra Lee powder through expander die body and then turned down the head and shaft of a bolt to make an expander plug. My "bolt expander" is similar to the TOTF expanders in that it's solid.

[RobS]

Hey Moose...I knew I saw it somewhere. Go up to the Titan Reloading website at the top of the page and click on it. Then click on "Service Parts." Then click on "Reloading Die Parts". Scroll around in there and they list an expander for the powder thru die for 45/70. It already has the hole. :) Now all you need do is downsize the expander part to .453/.454 (or whatever size you need) as I assume it is .456/.458 for the 45/70. And for about $3...! A bargain! Audie...the Oldfart.

That would work even better.

[JeffG]

My Lee .45 colt dies are swaging my .454 sized cast bullets and Remington hollow base bullets down to .452 when I seat them. Is this because my dies have a .452 or smaller expander. Or is it something to do with the die body itself? Is there a simple remedy? Is there a modern set of dies which are made for loading the larger bullets in the .45 Colt. I feel reasonably sure this is an easy question for someone out there. Thanks Moose.

I suppose it's possible it's swaging it down. I'm using the RCBS Cowboy Action set of dies and it has an expander insert for .452 and .454.

[RobS]

I suppose it's possible it's swaging it down. I'm using the RCBS Cowboy Action set of dies and it has an expander insert for .452 and .454.

For .452 and for .454 boolits but what is the actual expander die diameter? That is the important thing to know and I'm curious myself of this info.

[moose30273]

100322
So I finally got around to modifying my expander plugs from TOTW. I had planned to document the whole process. However, I got lazy. I was doubtful that making such a small difference would make a difference. WRONG !!!! I messed up the first expander plug (of course). But got the second one where I wanted it at .4535. Hopefully the picture loaded. I shot it offhand at ten yards. The flyers are all mine. I am happy. The only bad thing is I had run out of Unique and used 2400. Now I have to go clean unburned powder out of my gun.

[moose30273]

Oh, 11 rounds.

[Char-Gar]

For .452 and for .454 boolits but what is the actual expander die diameter? That is the important thing to know and I'm curious myself of this info.

I don't know about the RCBS Cowboy, but the Lyman 310 expanders run an actual .452 (45 ACP) and .454 (45 Colt). There will be between .0005 and .0015 springback depending on the make of brass and how many time it has been reloaded.

Here is a pic of my 310 .454 expander, show here with the adapter to use in the bench press, a R-P sized and expanded case, and the Starett adjustable hole gage used to measure the inside of the expanded case. As you can see from the reading on the micrometer, the .454 expander has left a hair more than .453 inside diameter of the case. I will called it .4532 and be done with it. This provides good tension with .454 bullets.

I suppose other makes of .454 expanders will give similar results.