Trying the Lee 358-150-1r in my 9mm

[tazman]

I have been wanting to try a heavier boolit in my 9mm.
I am unwilling to buy boolits if I can cast them myself. I am also unwilling to spend big bucks in the nature of an experiment on a quality 147gr mold. Since Lee doesn't make a 147 for the 9mm and I have problems with feed using the 105gr, I opted to forgo using the 140swc since it has the same nose the 105 does.
I already have the Lee 358-150-1r for my 38/357. It drops boolits with my alloy at 148grains which is a perfect weight.
I sized a few of them at .357 for my 9mm and loaded some up as a test. I had to load the boolit with an OAL of 1.085 in order to clear the rifling and get good feed. This is loaded with the back edge of the crimp ring even with the case mouth.

I started with 5.2gr of AA7 and worked up to 5.7gr. The AA data manual claims I could go all the way to 6.3 but I was not ready to try that yet as the boolit was loaded so deep.
Test results (sorry, I don't have a chronograph)
5.2 no failures of any kind, average accuracy.
5.3 no failures average accuracy
5.4 no failures accuracy getting better
5.5 no failures Accuracy very good
5.6 no failures accuracy very good
5.7 no failures accuracy average again.
Felt recoil on the last set took a jump and the impact point shifted.
No signs of pressure looking at the cases with any of the loads but with the last load giving some variations I decided to quit there.
Looks like my sweet spot is 5.5-5.6 grains.
It appears this boolit will be suitable for use in my 9mm. Should make a good hard hitting round.
I will be interested to see what the velocity is when I get access to a chronograph. According to the data manual I should be getting about 900fps.

[tazman]

Accurate arms just released an update to their data for the 9mm. New starting load for AA7 is now 6.3gr with a max of 6.7 giving over 1000fps.
Not sure I want to go that high.

[Zim]

If it cycles with good accuracy, no reason to go higher. I shot the lyman 358311 RN in a 9 with few issues. Next up is an OWC 150 gr.

[williamwaco]

I have very good results in both accuracy and reliability with this one:

http://www.snscasting.com/9mm-147-grain-flat-point-coated-1000ct/

Except mine were lubed, not coated.

You don't however actually "need" that much weight.

[tazman]

I have very good results in both accuracy and reliability with this one:

http://www.snscasting.com/9mm-147-grain-flat-point-coated-1000ct/

Except mine were lubed, not coated.

You don't however actually "need" that much weight.

What exactly do you mean by need?

I was checking to see if the accuracy was better with a larger boolit than the ones I had already tried. If I can get better accuracy with a larger boolit, that's what I will use.
I still need to check the Lyman 356637 147grain for results in my 9mm. Hate to buy a mold just to test it out. Why I tried the Lee rn.

[bedbugbilly]

I use the same - Lee 358-150-RN (I believe that is the one you are referring to) as one of my 38 spl. boolits. In my 9mm, I'm using the Lee 356-120-TC. I understand what you are saying about wanting to try/use the 150 gr. in your 9mm. I only use BE so my experience is limited to that powder.

I'm not debating/questioning what you are doing - I am curious about one thing though. (I'm in AZ right now and my reloading stuff is back in MI so I can't check). If you go with the larger gr. 150 and seat it to the OAL that is required for you pistol - is it seating deeper in the case than a lighter wt. boo lit? i.e. what about increased pressure? Is that an issue (and it may very well not be)? Or does the 150 gr. seem to work O.K. as far as seating depth/increasing pressure (if it seats deeper)?

I really hadn't thought about using this/trying it (150 gr.) in my 9mm. I have tried the reverse - trying the 356-120 TC in my 38s as they drop at around .358 out of my mold.

[tazman]

It definitely does seat deeper than a lighter boolit. I think it is enough deeper that I had to significantly reduce the powder charge to be safe. I had some interesting results with the powder exhibiting what I suspect is the beginning of a pressure spike at the end of my testing(see post no. 1). I was a lot below the published max for the powder I was using.
I used a much slower powder than BE in order to have more room for safety.
I also think a boolit such as the Lyman 356637 which is designed fr the 9mm would not seat as deep thereby allowing a heavier/safer powder charge.
This was an experiment designed to see if my accuracy would improve with a heavier boolit. It did, but not significantly so.
I want to try the Lyman boolit to see if that is better.

[williamwaco]

What exactly do you mean by need?

I was checking to see if the accuracy was better with a larger boolit than the ones I had already tried. If I can get better accuracy with a larger boolit, that's what I will use.
I still need to check the Lyman 356637 147grain for results in my 9mm. Hate to buy a mold just to test it out. Why I tried the Lee rn.

I mean that a lighter bullet will work just as well.

[tazman]

I mean that a lighter bullet will work just as well.
I have never had a semi auto pistol that shot as well for me as a revolver. I am trying to find a boolit/powder combination that gives me accuracy similar to my revolver. I may never find one. I can only find out by experimenting with whatever is available.
I can currently get about the same accuracy with all boolit weights I have tried with the 150gr rn being slightly better. I don't know if this trend will continue, but my thought is, if I load a boolit that was specifically designed for the 9mm in 147 gr, it would be seated less deeply and give me more room for powder variations that MAY effect my accuracy. Only one way to find out.
If it doesn't work, I can always use the 95gr boolit I previously tested.

[williamwaco]

I have never had a semi auto pistol that shot as well for me as a revolver. I am trying to find a boolit/powder combination that gives me accuracy similar to my revolver. I may never find one. I can only find out by experimenting with whatever is available.
I can currently get about the same accuracy with all boolit weights I have tried with the 150gr rn being slightly better. I don't know if this trend will continue, but my thought is, if I load a boolit that was specifically designed for the 9mm in 147 gr, it would be seated less deeply and give me more room for powder variations that MAY effect my accuracy. Only one way to find out.
If it doesn't work, I can always use the 95gr boolit I previously tested.

I have had two that would do that.

The first was a Smith and Wesson model 52. The other was a highly accurized ( very expensive ) 1911 .45ACP.
I have NEVER seen a 9mm auto that was even reasonably accurate.

If you succeed in equaling revolver accuracy, I would love to hear about it.

[tazman]

williamwaco wrote:If you succeed in equaling revolver accuracy, I would love to hear about it.

If I succeed I will post about it. If I fail I will post that too.
Not really expecting to match the 2 revolvers I currently own. These are the finest shooting revolvers I ever fired.
I have already found some improvement with different boolit and powder combinations. My average group size with the 9mm is currently about 3-4 inches at 10 yards. Either of my revolvers is about 1to 1-1/2in with an occasional flyer.
My 9mm seems to like the upper end of the speed range but I haven't been able to chrono anything yet. When the weather breaks that should change.
I haven't owned the 9 long enough to know what it's best loads are yet. Still finding out what works and what doesn't.

[williamwaco]

williamwaco wrote:If you succeed in equaling revolver accuracy, I would love to hear about it.

If I succeed I will post about it. If I fail I will post that too.
Not really expecting to match the 2 revolvers I currently own. These are the finest shooting revolvers I ever fired.
I have already found some improvement with different boolit and powder combinations. My average group size with the 9mm is currently about 3-4 inches at 10 yards. Either of my revolvers is about 1to 1-1/2in with an occasional flyer.
My 9mm seems to like the upper end of the speed range but I haven't been able to chrono anything yet. When the weather breaks that should change.
I haven't owned the 9 long enough to know what it's best loads are yet. Still finding out what works and what doesn't.


You can do that with most 9mms at 25 yards. with a bench rest and a scope. If the lighting allows, you should be able to almost equal that with a laser.


I expect sub 2" from any Colt, S&W or Ruger revoler. I have no experience with other brands.

Factory wad cutters will often beat 1 and 1/2 inch and occasionally sub 1".

Occasional flyer ? ? ? Welcome to the club. - :violin:

[tazman]

You can do that with most 9mms at 25 yards. with a bench rest and a scope. If the lighting allows, you should be able to almost equal that with a laser.


I expect sub 2" from any Colt, S&W or Ruger revoler. I have no experience with other brands.

Factory wad cutters will often beat 1 and 1/2 inch and occasionally sub 1".
I have never been that good a shot with a pistol of any type. I am getting the best results of my life right now with the 2 revolvers I currently own. My success with a semi auto has been spotty at best, but never equal to a revolver. I have never grouped 2 inches at 25 yards with anything except a rifle or my bow( I was a very good archer a few years ago). I have owned 40s&w and 45acp before and had it demonstrated that the pistols I had were capable but I can't do it yet. Still working on it.
I have a laser coming so perhaps I can get things a bit better. I can no longer focus well enough to get my alignment perfect. If I focus on the front sight, the target almost disappears. I can focus well on the target but then have trouble with sight alignment. Hoping the laser will allow me to focus on the target and be able to hold it there.

[tazman]

I found the answer to my accuracy problems and it wasn't a boolit weight.
Turns out the lands in my barrel were to thin and short to properly grip the boolits. This included factory full metal jacket.
I bought a new Berreta 92 barrel, dropped it in and shot it this afternoon. Difference is night and day. Now it performs like I wanted it to. Not quite revolver accuracy but very close.
Now I need to tune the load.

By the way, the 150 grain boolit performed exceedingly well in the new barrel.
Perfect function and tight groups.

[williamwaco]

I found the answer to my accuracy problems and it wasn't a boolit weight.
Turns out the lands in my barrel were to thin and short to properly grip the boolits. This included factory full metal jacket.
I bought a new Berreta 92 barrel, dropped it in and shot it this afternoon. Difference is night and day. Now it performs like I wanted it to. Not quite revolver accuracy but very close.
Now I need to tune the load.

By the way, the 150 grain boolit performed exceedingly well in the new barrel.
Perfect function and tight groups.

Glad to hear it.

You might want to look at one of these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/978528/merit-optical-attachment-with-suction-cup
or
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/936878/lyman-hawkeye-shooters-diopter-optic-aid?cm_vc=ProductFinding

It will keep every thing sharp for you.

[tazman]

Thanks for that info. I hadn't heard of anything like that. I can see how it might work.
I hung a laser sight on the 9mm just for grins today. This made it so I could hold my head up a bit more and focus just on the target.
After some of practice, I was holding some very good(for me) groups all the way out to 20 yards.
I will continue to practice with and without the laser. You never know when something might not work at a bad time.

[williamwaco]

Thanks for that info. I hadn't heard of anything like that. I can see how it might work.
I hung a laser sight on the 9mm just for grins today. This made it so I could hold my head up a bit more and focus just on the target.
After some of practice, I was holding some very good(for me) groups all the way out to 20 yards.
I will continue to practice with and without the laser. You never know when something might not work at a bad time.

Practice both ways.

You don't need a 2" group for self defense but It will not hurt anything.

[tazman]

Practice both ways.

You don't need a 2" group for self defense but It will not hurt anything.

A 2" group for self defense only hurts the other guy.

[earplug]

Good information here if you have the mold and the need. I have a 1911 based 9MM that needs a long cartridge to prevent nose diving while feeding. the LEE 358 150 1R sized to .357 or .358 seated to 1.082 cured my issues.

[tazman]

I have since stopped using that particular boolit in my 9mm and have gone to either the Lyman 358212(147 grains) or the NOE 358-155-tc elco. They both shoot well in my 9mm and give me a longer cartridge and more space in the case for powder if necessary. They also work well in my carbine.
I prefer the NOE because of the extra cavities and hollow point ability of the mold. Accuracy between the two is the same.

[zomby woof]

I use that boolit for my heavy in 9mm. Playing the power factor game and trying light vs heavy for recoil impulse. That boolit works extremely well in my M&P and Witness. I use this for USPSA/IDPA matches. So far accuracy with HS-6, AA#5 and Power Pistol. I see no reason to switch at this point.