Iver Johnson top break .32

[richhodg66]

I must admit to having a thing for top break revolvers and never had one. I've also liked .32s and have been eyeballing these when they turn up. Usually shops want upwards of $200 for ones that have broken grips, pitting, nickel plating peeling etc.

Happenned on a pretty nice blued one today with no pitting, good grips and bore for $75. I presume this is a .32 short? I know I have some .32 short brass stashed away someplace in all my stuff and also a mold for a light bullet designed for the .32 ACP.

What kind of loads would work in this OK? I'm guessing about 1.5 grain of Bullseye? I understand top breaks are inherently weaker, but this one is as strong as it ever was I'm sure. Looking at it, it may not be as old as I thought either as it has some kind of transfer bar in it, the hammer won't push the firing pin where it would hit the primer unless the trigger is pulled all the way back.

For the price, I'm not out much, but I don't want to blow it up. Looks like it'll be a fun little toy when I get to it.

[Outpost75]

In the .32 S&W (not the long) 1.5 grains of Bullseye is a full charge which approximates factory ammo with an 88 grain bullet similar to Accurate Molds #31-087T. You might drop to 1.2 grains to start.

[richhodg66]

Thanks for the advice. Best to be safe.

This one has a different way of unlatching to open it, there's a lever on the left side unlike the way they usually are where you grab it on both sides and lift up to open it. Is this earlier or later model?

The lever I'm talking about is like this one. Mine has an exposed hammer, not shrouded though.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=399056236

[Mk42gunner]

Don't think just because it has a transfer bar that it is relatively new; IIRC Iver Johnson started using a transfer bar about the time the .30-06 was new, give or take a few years. They used to use the slogan "Hammer the hammer" in advertisements.

Lyman Cast Bullets Handbook 3rd ed. recommends staying with the starting loads of 1.1 gr Bullseye with a 77 gr 311252 or 1.0 with the 84 gr 311249. I don't think the short is even listed in the 4th ed.

Robert

[mikeym1a]

my Ideal Manual #34 lists 1.5 gns of Bullseye with an 87gr boolit. The Ideal # 38 lists 1.4grs of Bullseye & 2grs of unique, with the same boolit. mikey

[richhodg66]

Wow, throwing charges that small will be a challenge. The smallest rotors available for the Lil Dandy I like to use won't do it.

I want to shoot this little gun, so I'll figure that out. I think I have a round ball mold that casts .311-312, that might be an idea to explore as a bullet option.

[uscra112]

Make a dipper from a fired .22 hull, with a handle of wire twisted tight around it. Test with a scale, file it shorter, test again, until it throws 1.5 grains. My Dad had one that he used with blanks for bird dog training. Now mine, and yes, I have fired round balls. S&W short is anything up to $50.00 a box - when you can find it. A bit pricey to just plink with.

[bstone5]

Picture below is of a dipper made from a 22 RF case. I soldiered some 14 gage wire onto the case for a handle.

The bullet is 77 grains powder coated with a gas check.

I used rough emery paper to shorten the length till the weight was correct.

[richhodg66]

That's a good idea making a dipper. I know I have some of that short brass around somewhere, gotta look this weekend.

This is a neat little revolver, I doubt I'll shoot it much but it'll be a neat paper weight if nothing else.

[smkummer]

That is what I did to make a dipper. All of my Colts shoot the long so I don't mess with the shorts as they are finicky because of the size. If you can't find any brass, let me know, I'll send you some if you not picky on web or balloon cases.

[Multigunner]

The early production Iverjohnsons were intended for black powder cartridges only.
The later production were for smokeless powder.

The latch pivot pin of the older pistols can bend or deform when smokeless cartridges are used.

Best check the markings and serial number to find out when the pistol was manufactured.

[azrednek]

S&W short is anything up to $50.00 a box - when you can find it. A bit pricey to just plink with.

Back in the good ol days, like mid 70's. I used to buy partial boxes or loose in a junk box of 32 S&W dirt cheap at gun shows. Back then 32 S&W both short and long was abundant as most shooters lost interest in the caliber. I'd shoot it in a Russian Nagant revolver and unfortunately destroy the brass. Now days I see 32 S&W for sale I don't even ask as I know the price will border on ridicules.

You might want to check J&G Sales. They did have and possibly still do have some Fiochi 32 SWL with flush seated lead wad-cutter for a decent price. It was on sale when I got two boxes but I don't recall the price. I do recall I got two boxes for about the same price as one box of 762 Nagant revolver ammo. I haven't done so but I don't imagine it would be very difficult to trim the Long brass to the Short length.

[richhodg66]

Loading for it won't be a problem, I have what I need except for some way to throw those tiny charges. It was mentioned here so I checked and sure enough, my Lyman manual has that data in it.

This is what I found that seems to describe the one I have;

Model 1, First Model, second variation

Single top latch, 50'000 were manufactured in 1896, serial number with A letter prefix, marked on the top of the barrel rib
IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS FITCHBURG. MASS.U.S.A.
PAT'D.APR.6.86.FEB.15.87.MAY 10.87.DEC.26.93 PAT'S PENDING

So, if it's designed for black powder, will those starting loads of like 1.1 grain of Bullseye listed in the Lyman 3rd edition be of such a pressure level to be safe in this?

[azrednek]

Loading for it won't be a problem, I have what I need except for some way to throw those tiny charges.

Been a long time, more years than I want to think about. I loaded both of the 32 S&W's. It was a bit slow and tedious getting the powder charge right. I would drop a pinch, a pinch being powder from a bowl pinched between my thumb and index finger. If I dropped to much into the pan, dump it start over, under I'd trickle it up. I'd trickle it up rubbing my thumb and finger dropping the flakes that stick then use the powder trickler. I can't say with 100% certainty but I think I was using Unique and also used a Norma brand powder. Can't recall for sure where I got the loading data. I think it was from a member of my gun collector's club that also sold me the partial can of Norma and some 32 store-bought cast bullets.

The 32's I didn't shoot in my Nagant I shot in a F&W revolver, not a typo a "F". It was chambered for the 32 Long so I wasn't to concerned if I loaded the Short brass a bit to much. For the extremely light charges have to make sure there are not any breezes, be it an open window, fan, A/C etc affecting the movement of your scale.

I can recall the frustration as the light charge more often than not by the time my scale's arm lifted the pointer was over center. At the time I had two scales, a Redding and a Pacific. I can't remember which one. The scale's arm wouldn't move at all until the desired charge was way over. I started a project of filling a tiny Lee spoon with epoxy but never finished for a reason I can't recall. Most likely just lost interest or gave up in frustration. Hate to think about but it has been nearly 40 years since I hand loaded the 32's.

[Wayne Smith]

Mine is my grandmother's gun, an H&R. I load it with 1.2gr Bullseye and a piece of buckshot. I run this back up into the sizing die to size the buckshot as it is not of uniform diameter. I drilled a hole in a piece of 1/2x1/2" brass rod and use it in my Pacific Pistol Powder Measure.

[richhodg66]

Would a Lyman 55 powder measure be capable of throwing those tiny charges? I'll go downstairs and try it sometime, just wondered if anyone had tried this?

[FergusonTO35]

The Lee Auto Disk with the micro disk should throw small enough charges for you. I have some .32 S&W brass plus some .313 76 grain slugs I'll send you for postage. I think that Red Dot or Titewad might work better in tiny charges for this cartridge. Titewad, in particular, is alot more bulky than Bullseye and meters very well.

[Outpost75]

RCBS Little Dandy with smallest rotor #00 throws 1.7 grs. of Bullseye or 2.0 of Titegroup, max load for break-opens, but good starting load in. 32 ACP with 75-grain Ranch Dog.

[Denny303]

I just started loading for the 32 myself on sunday, albut tedious, I took long cases and trimmed them rough with a hacksaw on a board jig I made, then finished them down to .600 on the case trimmer. without being able to find cases there aren't many options. As far as charging the powder, I just weigh each charge using a 30-06 case as a trickler. it only takes a few seconds to throw 1 grain of bullseye with this method, and just dumped the charge carefully with the scale pan into the case. not the most efficient, but unless your loading up a lot of rounds, it works. I must say these are fun little guns, i only have 30 some cases to mess with for now, but look forward to working up some black powder loads when i get more brass.

[Alferd Packer]

If you don't have a powder trickler, use a teaspoon and gently shake into your weighing pan. After a little practice, you can trickle a tiny granule at a time or more as needed.

As for as it being difficult to find a .22 short case, just cut a long rifle case.
When I want to cut a case to use for a dipper, I weigh the charge and dump it into the case. Then I mark for the cut on the case outside. Easy way to cut cases is to drill a hole the case size near the end of a small scrap of wood, two by four, etc. Then clamp the scrap in a vise, or C-clamp it to a table top with the hole facing down. Mark the place for the case cut on the end of the block, holding the case up to the wood.Then insert the case into the hole and using a hack saw, saw thru the mark into the wood and thru the case. Then poke the case and cut off piece out of the hole.I have used old shot .cal .25 berdan primed pistol cases to make dippers too.
If you can't solder them, then just squeeze a straightened paper clip around the extractor groove-after first cutting the case to length. I believe the Blazer cases in .25 and .32 etc. are aluminum and make neat dippers of all weights as do the larger cases as well.
Also, instead of trimming the cases to make weight, you can wad up small bits of paper and wad it into the cases, tamping it solid and filling the case to make your dipper until you only have romm left for the weighed powder charge. Of course you need a powder scale to weigh the charges to make the dippers.
The .22 case cut off to make a one grain dipper for dipping .25 acp loads of bullseye, was only a 1/4 inch long, and after soldering a small finishing nail to the case, was unhandy and too delicate for my taste.
So I used a .22 long case and stuffed it with paper wadding tamped until the remaining space would only hold a grain of bullseye. After adding a handle, it worked better for me. You could fill with glue gun 3/4 way and when it hardens, put in weighed charge and mark case level, dump powder and either add more glue, or file case and chamfer till it dips the correct charge. You will have to mark handles of various dippers with masking tape tab and weight specific for the powder it is made to dip.
Don't guess or trust your memory. Always verify on your scale when first starting to dip powder for reloading with home made dippers, or any dipper. Even if they are marked. Different lots of the same powder can have different volumes or humidity levels making volumes and fill levels different.
If you get careless this can get serious quick with small pistol cases and small charges!

[richhodg66]

Well, I loaded some ammo with some 77 grain .32 bullets a member here gave me and 1.1 grain of Bullseye per my Lyman starting loads (for the record, a Lyman 55 will throw consistent charges that small). I had no way to crimp as I was using a set of dies for .32 S&W Long and they won't do it.

Anyhow, the little revolver went bang most of the time. It did misfire the first time on a few of the, and the primer strikes were noticeably off center and some of the rounds shaved lead pretty badly. Either somethings is out of time on it, or maybe the cylinder throats are much smaller than the bore diameter which is possible because a .311 sized bullet won't drop through the cylinder and I'm pretty sure the bore is bigger than .311, though I haven't slugged it.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased. The little revolver shoots again in God only knows how long and was not as inaccurate as I had guessed it would. One hand off hand had all of them staying on the paper at 7 yards, which given the sights, bad trigger and everything else was OK I thought. Fun little gun.

107363107364107365

[wackydog]

Good for you! I too love those old top-break revolvers. I have a small suitcase full of old I.J.s, H&Rs, etc. in .32 and .38 S&W, and scarfed as much ammo as I could over the 35-40 years I've been owning them. Used to be that you could find old (but still usually functional) ammo at most shows; no so any longer.
A few years ago, a friend hooked me up with a near new Scholfield Wells Fargo clone in .45 Colt at a great price. Talk about a fun gun!
All this makes me think I need to open up that suitcase....

[richhodg66]

I have a mold somewhere that is a full wadcutter, I can't remember what it weighs. I may try that one next.

The fact that the cylinder seems a bit out of time bothers me. The next time I shoot it, I am going to be more methodical and see if it's a single cylinder that is causing the problems. It misfired the first time around on a few rounds, could be the same hole misfiring each time, I didn't keep track.

Whereabouts in Kansas are you?