Montana opinions please

[pull the trigger]

So my dad is about to retire and wants to move to Montana from northern NY. Any place you think is the best. He hunts and has horses and rides dirt bikes and all that stuff. He is not a city fan but his girlfriend is alot younger and still needs to work. Where should he go and where should he avoid? Any input please!

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I live in Kalispell.
What kind of hunting does he want to do?
If horseback back country is his thing, anywhere surrounding the Bob Marshall Wilderness is a good bet.
That doesnt narrow things down much as it is a huge area.
If he likes the plains country the eastern south eastern area along the rocky mountain front provides access to "the Bob"
and is one of the most beautiful places in the state. But wind, never forget the wind over there.
Southwest & south central are a elk hunters paradise, but near college towns.
This is a tough place to make a living sometimes unless you have a niche skill set that has a need you can fill.
However, as bad as it can be, the opportunities to screw off here are unlimited. There really inst anything you cant do here.
Missoula, Bozeman, Helena, are liberal hippy college areas. All however, offer easy escapes into the woods.
We dont see the sun much here in the winter on the west, mountainous side, the east side is mostly prairie and big sky
lots of sun in the winter, but always remember the wind.
Glacier Parks front doors are 30 minutes form my house.
My main piece of advice- When you move here, leave you attitude at home and you will be assimilate much more quickly.
Many many people move here with the attitude that they will "show us rednecks how its done"
Most of them dont last long :D
Research research research. lots of diversity here you have to find the part of it you like

[Piedmont]

My main piece of advice- When you move here, leave you attitude at home and you will be assimilate much more quickly.
Many many people move here with the attitude that they will "show us rednecks how its done"
Most of them dont last long :D


I live in the South. One of my favorite bumper stickers is "We don't care how you did it up north."

[runfiverun]

we get a lot of the gentlemen farmer city guy's that come here too.
when they are asked what kind of tractor they will be using this winter you get that WHAAAAT?...look.
usually they buy something the next summer, then they are informed the wife won't be using it..
the year after that the place is usually up for sale again...

[onceabull]

One Montana village I've always enjoyed visiting is Lewistown.. Don't see a whole lot of internet hype about it... It's close on to some fantastic bird hunting..A crowd of white shoe horse and pointing dog owners from this area have been hauling their stock all the way there for the birding every fall for some years...Recommend you check it out..

[pull the trigger]

So I guess the NY part is confusing to some. We aint city folk and are used to taking care of ourselves And fixing everything ourselves. Nothern NY is not like NY city. We dont bring attitude anywhere we go. Thank you for all the suggestions and constructive input and keep it coming.

[Hawkeye45]

I have a t-shirt. MONTANA SUCKS...NOW GO HOME AND TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS NOT TO COME.

Mr. Ed

[454PB]

Missoula, Bozeman, Helena, are liberal hippy college areas. All however, offer easy escapes into the woods.



i kinda agree about Missoula, but not Helena or Bozeman. Bozeman is too busy for me, and Helena is growing fast. However, fishing, boating, hunting, hiking, etc. are all within less than 30 minutes driving time.

[shooter2]

If a job is required then you should look to one of the cities. That brings it down to Great Falls, Billings, Helena (not recommended), Kallispell, Bozeman (yuppy), Lewistown (nice area), and a few others.

I lived in Great Falls for years (a lifetime ago) and it is windy, but great for hunting and fishing in the area.

My son lives in Dillon and I like that area, but cannot speak to the availability of jobs. It is a small town, but great hunting and the best trout fishing in the state.

Montana gets real winter so either live with it or, like the guy said, head south. That said, it is no worse than upstate NY as I lived there for a spell as well.

Plan for the future and look for an area with good medical care.

If you want to make some real $$ look to the far eastern area and work in the Bakken oil fields. It is the Great Plains and always windy. Think "boom town".

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've only driven through Montana.
But I've spent some time in Wyoming.
If I were moving to this part of the US, it'd be near the Big Horns...The area near the Rockies is just too busy, at least in WY, like I said, I've only driven through MT.

[TES]

I moved to Manhattan, MT and it is the best of both worlds. Small town with walk to convenience of anything in town but close enough to Bozeman for work or big stores. It is considered to be in the Banana belt. Less wind less snow and slightly milder winters. It also has one of the best steak houses in the state.

[NVScouter]

What kind of work does his girlfriend do?

My favorite is "My State has an East Infection"......

Upstate NYers will get the safe guff a country Californian will get but be just as fine.

Helena is beautiful but getting some bad rap with meth up there. The tap rooms are awesome however!

[Beerd]

Wouldn't a move to Vermont be a whole lot easier?









:kidding:


It's a big state (Montana, not VT).
Lots of variety.
Maybe a little scouting trip is in order come spring.
..

[MT Gianni]

A lot will depend on the money he brings. A nice place in Whitehall suitable for horses will run him close to $300K without the ability for his horses to be self sustaining. IOW, he will be buying feed. The area from Dillon N to Helena and Deer Lodge E to Belgrade has almost every type of game found in the State. There are a lot of places to ride and a lot of public land hunting. Most of it is crowded by my standards and there are few opportunities to hunt small game here other than grouse. Wolves have affected big game hunting in all most all areas of the western 1/2 of the State, chronic respiratory failure and bluetongue have hit the rest fairly hard. It is a nice place to live if you under stand that in the banana belts last frost is Memorial day and first is the week after Labor day. There is no sales tax but it is made up for in many other ways, food is expensive as are other basics. You have to make your own entertainment here, there are few chain type restaurants or stores. Most of us think little of a hundred mile drive for groceries. I would advise him to rent for a year before he considered staying.

[shooter2]

I forgot to mention that the best thing about MT is the free and independent spirit of the people.

Waksupi needs to chime in here.

[jmort]

On behalf of waksupi, crackers stay out per the Great Spirit.

[smokeywolf]

we get a lot of the gentlemen farmer city guy's that come here too.
when they are asked what kind of tractor they will be using this winter you get that WHAAAAT?...look.
usually they buy something the next summer, then they are informed the wife won't be using it..
the year after that the place is usually up for sale again...

One of the expenses we're trying to allow for when we make our move to a small ranch/hobby farm. We're figuring in about $100,000 for equipment, machinery, materials etc. And that's if the place is already being worked as a small livestock/hobby farm operation. Because everyone always underestimates expenses, we're going to hold another $40,000 in reserve for what my mom used to refer to as, "GOK" (God Only Knows).

Tractor? I know I'll need one. That's something that I'm hoping those here on Cast Boolits who have "been there and done that" can offer their expert advice on, make(s) and model(s) I should be looking at. Loader? backhoe attachments?

smokeywolf

[pull the trigger]

They are going out to look around in April. Just trying to come up with as many ideas as possible before they go. I really appreciate the input. Keep it coming!

[waksupi]

Lots of discussion here;

http://www.city-data.com/forum/montana/

Myself, I live south of Kalispell a bit. Most people fall in love with the valley when they first top the hill south of Polson, and see the lake and mountains stretching out forever. More people around than I care for, but two extra people would put me over that edge. My choices for locations, aside from here in the Flathead would be Troy, Monarch, or Lewistown.

Good suggestion to rent for awhile, to give time to really look around the state, and be happy where he lands.

[onceabull]

Another good point for Lewistown is that it's not that far from there to the Judith R. ,where one might still find an Indian skull that Elmer K.and that crowd missed out on. Onceabull

[Bullshop]

Another good point for Lewistown is that it's not that far from there to the Judith R. ,where one might still find an Indian skull that Elmer K.and that crowd missed out on. Onceabull
And 50 miles to the Charley Russell elk country and the Missouri river. Darn good fishing from there on down through the breaks all the way to Fort Peck lake.

[tommag]

When I was a kid, we used to canoe the Missouri through the breaks, that was phenomenal!
I think you have to get a permit now.
Lewistown... Nice area. Spring creek held big browns in the 70's.
The winters can be brutal in the eastern 2/3 of the state. 20 below is common, sometimes as low as -40. Coupled with the wind, it can get unpleasant.
When the Chinook wind blows, (warm wind from the south) the temps can sometimes go fro -30 to +60 in 24 hours.

[jethunter]

we get a lot of the gentlemen farmer city guy's that come here too.
when they are asked what kind of tractor they will be using this winter you get that WHAAAAT?...look.
usually they buy something the next summer, then they are informed the wife won't be using it..
the year after that the place is usually up for sale again...

That sounds like where I live. I guess liberal yuppies are pretty much the same everywhere.

[Lloyd Smale]

my little sister lives in great falls. She likes it but it doesnt do anything for me. Dirty looking and crack heads on the street corners. Lots of drugs there. I never thought montana would be like that. For the most part it isnt. Ive liked about everywhere else ive been in that state.
If a job is required then you should look to one of the cities. That brings it down to Great Falls, Billings, Helena (not recommended), Kallispell, Bozeman (yuppy), Lewistown (nice area), and a few others.

I lived in Great Falls for years (a lifetime ago) and it is windy, but great for hunting and fishing in the area.

My son lives in Dillon and I like that area, but cannot speak to the availability of jobs. It is a small town, but great hunting and the best trout fishing in the state.

Montana gets real winter so either live with it or, like the guy said, head south. That said, it is no worse than upstate NY as I lived there for a spell as well.

Plan for the future and look for an area with good medical care.

If you want to make some real $$ look to the far eastern area and work in the Bakken oil fields. It is the Great Plains and always windy. Think "boom town".

[Lloyd Smale]

Have to agree with you there. I spent some time in upstate ny and its a real nice and pretty area. People were great too. Far cry from NY city. Personaly from what ive seen if i wanted to move out west id look more toward whyoming.
So I guess the NY part is confusing to some. We aint city folk and are used to taking care of ourselves And fixing everything ourselves. Nothern NY is not like NY city. We dont bring attitude anywhere we go. Thank you for all the suggestions and constructive input and keep it coming.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I have to agree with Lewistown. I really like it there.
Close to mountains, good fishing, good hunting, great bird hunting near by
not far to a big city for medical and store variety.
My best friends BIL is the police chief in Manhattan, I like it well there too.
Small, friendly town close to work and supplies. MT is full of small friendly towns
the trick is making money or bringing it with you.
I meant no offense to the OP about the attitude's folks bring here.
But a LOT of them show up with that and they don't last long.
I have to agree with Ric as well, this town has grown substantially since we got here
in 1984 and its loosing some of its appeal in that respect.

[pull the trigger]

It sounds like alot more big city problems than we see around here. That really surprises me.

[kootne]

They will tell you the economy is driven by agriculture, timber, mining, govt., and a little industry. They miss the main economic engine, the GARAGE SALE! sad thing is, a lot of good folks love it here but bring their consumption habits learned in places where the decimal points on the paychecks are in a different spot. Don't realize the deductions for clean air and scenery. Real estate lady in Bozeman told me 90% population turnover in Gallitan valley every 10 years. Those can't all be college kids. Anyway, it is a big place, lots of variety. Come in the winter, check it out, make sure you see what you're getting into (and you can probably dicker better on real-estate)

[onceabull]

The gents from up close and personal to Lincoln County.Mt. will likely point you elsewhere !!! waksupi did mention Troy,but IMO Eureka is better..whole Tobacco Valley has probably the softest weather in the State... You might find cheaper housing/land around Clark Fork,ID.. which is close enough to Montana to not matter,and you can go call on Buffalo Arms,and be home for supper..super outdoor experiences just No.of Clark Fork in the Lightning Creek country..Onceabull

[AlaskanGuy]

Well, i moved to alaska from livingston, mt..... I liked the area well, but south of livingston, the turners and fondas bought everything up, and what was left was painted purple by the rajshneeshparam group..... It became hard to get access to the yellowstone valley area... Livingston is a heavy wind area.... But used to be awesome hunting and fishing... Dad lived in the helena area near the silo..... I used to be a bouncer at the Ice Pirates games...lol... Used to be lots of good fishing around that part of the country along canyon ferry lake area.... Alaska is more like what montana used to be like in my opinion.... But your mileage may vary....

AG

[TES]

before we moved here we spent one winter just hanging out......was a mild one apparently but.....not horrible..it's just different here.

[nekshot]

Thank God eastern folk are finding other areas to habitate rather than Missouri!!!!!

[Idaho Mule]

Lots of open space, too many porcupines, and a LONG time ago I had a really HOT girlfriend from Livingston. JW

[longranger]

Lewistown,Big Timber or WY

[Bullshop]

I understand there are some really nice places with acreage in the Scoby area. Perhaps folks moving from those more populated areas should look over there. You can have the wide open spaces and still not be too far from the shopping malls in Canada.
Don't bother looking in south west MT. as it is just too cold there unless your an eskimo and there is no place to shop. Its over 100 miles to the nearest Wal-Mart now who in their right mind would want to live like that.

[MUSTANG]

The wife and I traveled to the Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming area for about 12 years on vacations, and as far as terrain we were happy with all of it. We finally bought the 2nd home in the Kalispelll area because it most closely met our goals compared to the rest of that broad area. Some of the reasons:

1. Kalisepll has mild weather despite it's vicinity to the 48th parallel. (Should you settle on the Kalispell area, look to the West portion of the Valley near or in the Mountain range because the wind is dramatically less there - but the snow accumulation is greater.

2. We were absolutely amazed to discover that the Medical Facilities in Kalisepll (Dental too.) are of much greater quality, less costly, and more readily available than what we found in the Las Vegas NV area.

3. Housing is relatively cost efficient compared to some areas, but it seems that Food is much higher.

4. Taxes are higher than Clark County NV; but far less than what relatives in New York State are paying.

5. We ave found that we feel Lifestyle is much better here than most places we have lived in the US.

6. Diversity in the economy! Timber, Mining, some Tech, Manufacturing, transportation, Tourism (both US and Canadian) Banking (Still can not believe the # of Banks in this area), Agriculture, Ranching, and others. This diversity means that no single industry downturn will result in localized depression.

7. The Gun and Outdoor Sporting Shop/stores. I mean shop/stores that actually have stuff for the outdoors every where, not Clothes Stores masquerading as Sporting Goods stores.

8. Friendly people everywhere!

9. There are sufficient ranges in the area that anywhere you live in the Valley, the drive to a range is less than 20 minutes, and that does not include forest land open to the Public and Gravel pits locals use to shoot.

[waksupi]

The wife and I traveled to the Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming area for about 12 years on vacations, and as far as terrain we were happy with all of it. We finally bought the 2nd home in the Kalispelll area because it most closely met our goals compared to the rest of that broad area. Some of the reasons:

1. Kalisepll has mild weather despite it's vicinity to the 48th parallel. (Should you settle on the Kalispell area, look to the West portion of the Valley near or in the Mountain range because the wind is dramatically less there - but the snow accumulation is greater.

Very true. I'm in the mountains on the NW corner of Flathead Lake, still lots of snow up here. At the club shoot today, hardly any snow left near the east side of the valley. Valley floor is about 3000 feet. I live at 3400 Ft. Winter time I'm ten degrees warmer, summer, ten degrees cooler than in the valley, and am above most of the inversions that sock in the valleys for a week at a time.

2. We were absolutely amazed to discover that the Medical Facilities in Kalisepll (Dental too.) are of much greater quality, less costly, and more readily available than what we found in the Las Vegas NV area.

Over 200 doctors in Kalispell according to the HR director. Definitely one of the best medical facilities in the country.

3. Housing is relatively cost efficient compared to some areas, but it seems that Food is much higher.

You need to check the various grocery stores, big difference in prices.

4. Taxes are higher than Clark County NV; but far less than what relatives in New York State are paying.

5. We ave found that we feel Lifestyle is much better here than most places we have lived in the US.

6. Diversity in the economy! Timber, Mining, some Tech, Manufacturing, transportation, Tourism (both US and Canadian) Banking (Still can not believe the # of Banks in this area), Agriculture, Ranching, and others. This diversity means that no single industry downturn will result in localized depression.

Tech industry is growing, and there are around 20 firearms and accessory manufacturers here, plus many custom builders and gun smiths. Yep, lots of banks, mostly locally owned, so much nicer to do business with.

7. The Gun and Outdoor Sporting Shop/stores. I mean shop/stores that actually have stuff for the outdoors every where, not Clothes Stores masquerading as Sporting Goods stores.

Yep! Snappy's is my favorite.

8. Friendly people everywhere!

9. There are sufficient ranges in the area that anywhere you live in the Valley, the drive to a range is less than 20 minutes, and that does not include forest land open to the Public and Gravel pits locals use to shoot.

------

[smokeywolf]

Mom and dad had a small lot (2.5 acres) outside of Hungry Horse on the North Fork of the Flathead River. They also had small properties in Oregon, outside of Bend on the Little Deschutes River and in Texas on Lake Mexia. They were looking at getting a couple of other parcels in Georgia or Alabama and perhaps Tennessee. Dad had spent 9 years converting an old Greyhound bus to a motorhome. It was truly beautiful and he had carefully designed it to have the capacity to store food and fuel to keep them fed and warm for a minimum of 3 months at a clip. The coach held 300 gallons of diesel, 75 gallons of propane, 40 gallons of gas and 150 gallons of water.
Dad had it in mind to build small cabins with lean-tos on each property. Park the coach under the lean-to and use cabin and coach as one habitat.

First property to be sold was the Oregon property (bought in 1966); property taxes went through the roof.
Next property to go was the Montana property (bought in 1968). The North fork of the Flathead River was declared a "Wild River" Building type and configuration was restricted. Dad wasn't having anyone, especially some jack@ss bureaucrat, telling him what or how to build on his own property.
Dad passed in 1995, mom sold the Mexia, TX property in 1997.

I really liked the Montana property. Camped on the property several different times.

Don't know if city-folk are short on common sense or what. But, if you want to make a go of it in an environment you are unfamiliar with, you look to the locals who have been there much, much longer than you already know what works and what doesn't. Hopefully, if you are polite and respectful, they will offer advice and you just might be able to stick it out and be as successful as they have been.

smokeywolf

[Just Duke]

Yaak and Eureka have mild winters. Google it. ;)
They are across the Kootenai from each other.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kootenai+River/@48.1015855,-115.3711334,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x5366b76edc3ced97:0x289e5 8208ec9ba02

[starmac]

I'm just curious, has he spent any time in Montana, or just decided he wants to retire there. Montana is like most states with several different types of country and weather.

I should say, most western states that are fairly large in land mass.

[BD]

I have a friend looking to sell his place in Eureka. Big house, he had horses, on a creek with water rights.
BD

[Just Duke]

One of the expenses we're trying to allow for when we make our move to a small ranch/hobby farm. We're figuring in about $100,000 for equipment, machinery, materials etc. And that's if the place is already being worked as a small livestock/hobby farm operation. Because everyone always underestimates expenses, we're going to hold another $40,000 in reserve for what my mom used to refer to as, "GOK" (God Only Knows).

Tractor? I know I'll need one. That's something that I'm hoping those here on Cast Boolits who have "been there and done that" can offer their expert advice on, make(s) and model(s) I should be looking at. Loader? backhoe attachments?

smokeywolf

From my research JD makes the better tractor and implements. MF makes a nice tractor but many say on the tractor forum that MF round balers and square have many an issue. Just check adds and see how many there are for sale. Your price of 100K sounds awfully high. Were are going with used equipment and rebuilding as needed although we have had second thoughts as most tell me on the rancher forum that if they had to do it all over again they would just buy hay. If we just move back home as we have been seriously contemplating hay is dirt cheap on our Northern I-5 corridor. Disdain for the indigenous personnel attitudes, behavior, dietary abuses and lifestyle dissuades us from our ingress. NE-Texas, anything east of Branson MO, and south of Nashville have hay cheaper than one can make it also. The peoples of that area are really nice also.

[pull the trigger]

He has been out there a couple times. He is going to rent a while to see if it is as nice as he thinks it will be. Alot of this is great info. Thanks alot!

[MT Gianni]

Duke, I assumed he needed a tractor to move snow.

[smokeywolf]

From my reaserch JD makes the better tractor and implements. MF makes a nice tractor but many say on the tractor forum that MF round balers and square have many an issue. Just check adds and see how many there are for sale. Your price of 100K sounds awfully high. Were are going with used equipment and rebuilding as needed although we have had second thoughts as most tell me on the rancher forum that if they had to do it all over again they would just buy hay. If we just move back home as we have been seriously contemplating hay is dirt cheap on our Northern I-5 corridor. Disdain for the indigenous personnel attitudes, behavior, dietary abuses and lifestyle dissuades us from our ingress. NE-Texas, anything east of Branson MO, and south of Nashville have hay cheaper than one can make it also. The peoples of that area are really nice also.

Not at all what I intend to shell out for just the tractor. That's for tractor, attachments, ATVs, security equipment/system(s), fencing, feeders (if needed), couple of pieces of woodworking machinery, etc., etc. Was thinking of planting an orchard that maybe will produce enough (after several years) to offset property taxes and maybe propane costs.

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

[smokeywolf]

Duke, I assumed he needed a tractor to move snow.

I like Montana quite well. But, Mrs. smokeywolf says, although she's old fashioned and believes a wife should go anywhere her husband decides. She's not too sure she will enjoy being restricted or encumbered by the severe Winters.

[starmac]

If you check out farm sales, and will buy a larger tractor than the yuppie or gentlemen farmer crowd likes, you can get them much cheaper. Masseys,john deeres internationals will all last a small operation a life time, case will as well, but I don't like them if you are going to use a loader on the. For a hay baler, the little hesston inlines puts all other small balers to shame quick. I have had good luck with both John Deere and New Holland balers too and they would be fine for a small operation, but unless your talking quite a bit of baling, I would just use a custom baler, or get a nice inline and do some custom baling also. It also takes less horsepower to pull the hesstons. I wouldn't even think of the big squares, unless you are talking thousands of tons a year.

[Just Duke]

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

That's about right.

[Just Duke]

Not at all what I intend to shell out for just the tractor. That's for tractor, attachments, ATVs, security equipment/system(s), fencing, feeders (if needed), couple of pieces of woodworking machinery, etc., etc. Was thinking of planting an orchard that maybe will produce enough (after several years) to offset property taxes and maybe propane costs.

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

Have someone from the extension office come out and tell you what type of soil is on the property. Also how deep the soil is. Proper soil PH will make you or break you. If I was pondering fruit trees and we have, WA, OR MO, TN and NE Texas would be more conducive for them. Check underground aquifers and water table level. WATER IS THE NEW GOLD!!! An irrigation system can start at 50K and takes lots of power to run. You mentioned one time MO. Anything S. of I-70 you will not be able to plow due to shallow soil per everyone we have talked to. N. of I-70.......... Everything starts at a high 5K per acre.
Bad thing about MO and anything East of Central KS is chiggers, ticks, 13 or so poisonous snakes, bug haven, they have a new tick born disease out by the way, Tornado's and Hurricanes and humidity like sometimes 100%. Eastern OK's state bird is the tick. Some area's are full of pigs that destroy everything in their wake. They do get 39 inches of water though. ;)
TX is almost as bad. I do say though I find the good people of TX most pleasant to be in the company of.

[BPCR Bill]

Financially, he would be better off tax-wise in Wyoming for retirement. I recommend Cody or Sheridan. There are a lot of folks who retire from Montana and move to Wyoming.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

One of my nephews lived in Montana for a time , Billings, I think it was and he worked as a carpenter. He said the crew was framing houses one day and the temperature fell to forty below, not counting wind chill. The job was shut down. While working he wore electric socks and kept hand warmers in several pockets. He finally had enough and moved to New Castle Wyoming in the Black Hills. We visited him there and I found the place depressing. Lots of people driving around in rusted out cars and trucks with little to do. It is not surprising that so many young people turn to drugs or alcohol. It was like much of what small town America has become. Very sad. I did want to go to the Quigley match in Montana before I check out but at my age it is unlikely that I will ever make it. Didn't Elmer Keith say when he moved to Idaho, " I left Montana and I'm never going back".

[starmac]

13 or so poisonous snakes, hmm has mo started importing them, or is that 13 snakes in the state??? lol

[Just Duke]

13 or so poisonous snakes, hmm has mo started importing them, or is that 13 snakes in the state??? lol

Source; http://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/common-plants-and-animals/amphibians-and-reptiles/snakes
Missouri's venomous snakes include the copperhead, cottonmouth, western pygmy rattlesnake, massasauga rattlesnake, and timber rattlesnake. The western diamond-backed rattlesnake and coralsnake are not found in Missouri. The most common venomous snake in Missouri is the copperhead. To our knowledge, there have only been two human deaths attributed to venomous snakes in Missouri: a 1933 timber rattlesnake bite and a 1965 copperhead bite.

There are different breeds of each specie. Example Cotton Mouth http://www.cottonmouthsnake.org/

It's all fun and games until the necropsy sets in. Graphic pics can be found by just googleing "copperhead bite" and clicking on images. I'm not quite sure at this time what the admin stands on graphic pics links.

[Just Duke]

One of my nephews lived in Montana for a time , Billings, I think it was and he worked as a carpenter. He said the crew was framing houses one day and the temperature fell to forty below, not counting wind chill. The job was shut down. While working he wore electric socks and kept hand warmers in several pockets. He finally had enough and moved to New Castle Wyoming in the Black Hills. We visited him there and I found the place depressing. Lots of people driving around in rusted out cars and trucks with little to do. It is not surprising that so many young people turn to drugs or alcohol. It was like much of what small town America has become. Very sad. I did want to go to the Quigley match in Montana before I check out but at my age it is unlikely that I will ever make it. Didn't Elmer Keith say when he moved to Idaho, " I left Montana and I'm never going back".

Idaho is really nice. :)

[starmac]

Too particular, If it is a rattle snake, I kill it, I don't care if it is a pigmy, a diamond back, or sidewinder. The same with cotton mouths and copperheads. Even in coral snake country, I have seen less than a handful in the wild.

If I was looking for a move to that part of the country, I would look hard at Anderson Mo. I only know a few folks from that area, but it is a beautiful little town on the river in some beautiful country.

[onceabull]

FWIW,Elmer K. didn't get very far from Montana to where he spent the majority of his time in Idaho. and for of his last 40 years,there were more people where he lived than in any village to the north until one got to Missoula. Perhaps there were to many democrats in Montana for his tastes ????? Onceabull

[Just Duke]

From what little I've studied, I'm thinking $20,000 to $25,000 give or take for used tractor and attachments.
Maybe I can find something with low hours that was bought by some big city transplant who thought he was going to become a farmer in a few months by reading one book and buying a shiny new tractor.

smokeywolf

On a lucky weekend on Craigslist we found applicable JD tractors which hover around 16K to 17K and in serious need of a paint job and they are made in the 70's to real early 80's.
You will need a larger tractor than what were looking at to till that hard pack of MT. Where were looking is black sandy loam like in my back yard in OR. You can sink a shovel in the ground there bare foot due to the soil quality. The PNW I-5 corridor has the best soil on the planet for growning most things. I'm told by the extension guy at our place up there that 95 percent of the seed in the US is grown on the I-5 corridor.
I have chatted many an hour via the phone with late Bob Krack about tractors and discussions on the tractor forum.

[Just Duke]

http://www.msuextension.org/

[pull the trigger]

FWIW,Elmer K. didn't get very far from Montana to where he spent the majority of his time in Idaho. and for of his last 40 years,there were more people where he lived than in any village to the north until one got to Missoula. Perhaps there were to many democrats in Montana for his tastes ????? Onceabull

Way too many demo rats in NY too. That why he is leaving.

[NVScouter]

Financially, he would be better off tax-wise in Wyoming for retirement. I recommend Cody or Sheridan. There are a lot of folks who retire from Montana and move to Wyoming.

Cody is very expensive for WY. West Park Hospital is top notch (I've worked at dozens) and well above any other rural hospital I know. You should look at Meeteetsee WY puts you about 40 minutes out and property is 1/2. Nice little town, only tourists are getting gas or hunting.

How big a spread and how many irrigated acres? Orchards wont need as much equipment as hay or corn. I'd have somebody with a ripper do the orchard at one time. A big ripper can run a 4' deep trench in 10 acres in a day for that. An auger will take a LOT longer.

The kind of area you want are already set up with lots of hobby farms and honestly most of those go to heck. People with lots of money move to the country and get a 5 acre "Ranch" and buy equipment. Its up for cheap when they move a winter or two later. Moving heavy equipment isnt cheap so it goes for a steal with attachments.

[pull the trigger]

He is not a farmer. Not sure how that started.

[starmac]

Natural thread drift. lol

[nekshot]

We need a new law in mossouri, only folk who cast boolits allowed in!

[smokeywolf]

We need a new law in mossouri, only folk who cast boolits allowed in!

We're leaning in your direction. Mrs. smokeywolf isn't too keen on severe Winters and my oldest son is already there.

smokeywolf

[Just Duke]

We're leaning in your direction. Mrs. smokeywolf isn't too keen on severe Winters and my oldest son is already there.

smokeywolf

Forgot to say they tax your Social Security and they also have heavy taxation for vehicles brought into the state. Farm Tax is goofy cheap cheap. Sandy loam soil also. Some areas you can shoot 15 plus deer a year as a land owner, some areas one as a land owner. Check the MO hunting regs but your better off calling the dedicated area your looking. North of Central 1-5 and in the central area they have Chronic Wasting Disease afflicted deer. MO offers a class on determining whether or not a deer has it. North STL as of two years ago was the most dangerous city in the country. Their down to #3 now. The STL Zoo is world renowned. The well known curator pasted in 1986 was host of a wonderful TV show Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom and went by the name of Marlin Perkins. Among many other known venues are Budweiser and their draft horse farm, Herman Oak Leather which your dad probably purchase goods from, gun stock companies and many fine museums.
Also be advised that you will need to apply copious amounts out DEET or other variants at certain times of the year to ward off burrowing and blood sucking insect life. Bob Krack and myself though some basic chemical research found that all these topical insecticides were one molecule short of being DDT. Check it out for your self. Most their/farms/ranches have a pools and the chlorine kills the chiggers. Outside cloths cannot be bought indoors and must be washed after being out of doors.
The good news is chiggers don't bite at temperatures below 60 degrees.

[smokeywolf]

Duke, as far as I know, the only inaccuracy in your post is the taxation of Social Security income.

http://dor.mo.gov/personal/whatsnew/index.php#ssd

smokeywolf

[Just Duke]

So my dad is about to retire and wants to move to Montana from northern NY. Any place you think is the best. He hunts and has horses and rides dirt bikes and all that stuff. He is not a city fan but his girlfriend is alot younger and still needs to work. Where should he go and where should he avoid? Any input please!

Pending his health status and current age most don't factor in an abrupt change in elevation. 5500 ft and above according to http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=butte%20montana
Less oxygen means the heart and lung have to work harder than they used to than when at lower elevations. Most boast that one can acclimate to these higher elevations but take into consideration we are not 18 years old anymore.
Also look at gas/oil fracking map posted by watch groups. And before anyone chimes in and says there is no related problems do some research and come back and post the plethora of carcinogenic chemicals involved in well drilling.
Last, anyplace you buy get a flow rate on the well. We found a wonderful place in Montrose CO a couple wanted to trade their ranch for one of my homes. Full disclosure laws protecting us netted the well had 1/2 gallon per minute flow rate. Uh and 12 inches of rain a year so rain harvesting would be out of the question. I have the link if anyone wants it.

[Just Duke]

Duke, as far as I know, the only inaccuracy in your post is the taxation of Social Security income.

http://dor.mo.gov/personal/whatsnew/index.php#ssd

smokeywolf

That's great news because our internet searches a year ago said they taxed Social Security.
They still though tax personal property every year there which I forgot to post. That includes tractor, snowmobiles, atv's, farm implements, furniture etc.

[Just Duke]

Duke, as far as I know, the only inaccuracy in your post is the taxation of Social Security income.

http://dor.mo.gov/personal/whatsnew/index.php#ssd

smokeywolf

Yes they did just change it. NICE! http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/retirement/T055-S001-state-by-state-guide-to-taxes-on-retirees/index.php?map&state_id=26&state=Missouri

[Just Duke]

Smokey coming from CA I'm sure your aware of Poison Oak which is indigenous to your AO.
Poison Ivy indigenous to MO which shares the same Urushiol Oil variants with Poison Oak and can be controlled by goats. Also because of the Goats molar structure, it grind the seeds of the plant and renders the seeds useless and not able to pass from the goats excrement to the soil for migrating the seed re-population into other area of the farm/ranch. http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/repositoryfiles/ca4603p4-69619.pdf
Also goats only diet on deciduous plant leaves and choose not to eat grasses which leave them not competing with horse and cow for hay. At least that's my research netted me.
We have a goat milking machine on our ebay watch list. ;) http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?166468-Official-Goat-Cheese-Makers-Thread Got any cracker recipes? lol

[MUSTANG]

Pending his health status and current age most don't factor in an abrupt change in elevation. 5500 ft and above according to http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=butte%20montana
Less oxygen means the heart and lung have to work harder than they used to than when at lower elevations. Most boast that one can acclimate to these higher elevations but take into consideration we are not 18 years old anymore.
Also look at gas/oil fracking map posted by watch groups. Any before anyone chimes in and says there is no related problems do some research and come back and post the plethora of carcinogenic chemicals involved in well drilling.
Last, anyplace you buy get a flow rate on the well. We found a wonderful place in Montrose CO a couple wanted to trade their ranch for one of my homes. Full disclosure laws protecting us netted the well had 1/2 gallon per minute flow rate. Uh and 12 inches of rain a year so rain harvesting would be out of the question. I have the link if anyone wants it.


Duke Nukem:

Yes altitudes above 5000 feet can cause many problems due to the lower partial pressure of oxygen in the air with altitude as you go higher in elevation. After 4-6 weeks living at an altitude, up to ~10,000 feet, the body adapts over time and is able to function normally; but during heavy exertion the lower partial pressure makes most wind/tire easier at those altitudes even with long term exposure - you simply can not get as much oxygen in the blood stream due to the lower partial pressure. Above 10,000 feet signs of Altitude sickness (AMS - Accute Mountain Sickness) will start showing up in those who are disposed to it (not everyone is, no way to know if a person is disposed to it until/if it hits them - If they are, the only treatment is to live and stay at lower altitudes). -- At least that is what we taught at the USMC Mountain Warfare Center years ago. --

[nekshot]

Chiggers are not to bad, just don't go barefoot after sun down.Every spring we get a spray and spray the grass around house and pool and so forth and don't have a issue with chiggers. Our taxes are verrrry reasonable believe me. I live in the highest taxed county in mo and it is cheeeeap compared to pa. I must say we love it here but I do miss the eastern mountains. Here we go down to go in the mountains! If it would not be for some of the inbred idiots wandering around it would almost be perfect.

[MT Gianni]

Back on topic does his GF have employable skills?

[onceabull]

Re:Employment-- There is a growth bank with corp.headquarters in Kalispell, AND BRANCHES in Eureka AND Lewistown...might pay to see if there is a chance to hook up with them jobwise...(Glacier Bank Corp.)... fwiw,Onceabull

[Just Duke]

Duke Nukem:

Yes altitudes above 5000 feet can cause many problems due to the lower partial pressure of oxygen in the air with altitude as you go higher in elevation. After 4-6 weeks living at an altitude, up to ~10,000 feet, the body adapts over time and is able to function normally; but during heavy exertion the lower partial pressure makes most wind/tire easier at those altitudes even with long term exposure - you simply can not get as much oxygen in the blood stream due to the lower partial pressure. Above 10,000 feet signs of Altitude sickness (AMS - Accute Mountain Sickness) will start showing up in those who are disposed to it (not everyone is, no way to know if a person is disposed to it until/if it hits them - If they are, the only treatment is to live and stay at lower altitudes). -- At least that is what we taught at the USMC Mountain Warfare Center years ago. --

I don't think you were 60 years old or so while attending.


6,762 feet
The MCMWTC is located on California Highway 108 at Pickel Meadow, 21 miles northwest of Bridgeport, California and 100 miles south of Reno, Nevada. The MWTC is cited at 6,762 feet, with elevations in the training areas ranging to just under 12,000 feet.
Maps & Travel - Mountain Warfare Training Center, Bridgeport CA
www.mccsmwtc.com/pages/mapsTravel.html

:roll:We have corn fields in CO at 6000 ft where I used to live. I climbed to quickly once at got altitude sickness. It feels like your skull is going to crack open but we have rocks that go to 14,000 + feet too. I ruined myself rock climbing during a equipment failure. Looking back on it rock climbing, parachuting,scuba diving and dirt biking were some of the dumbest things and unproductive.
Recently a member here relocated from AK to OK and his reason was the higher risk of stroke in his AO. My old GF in CO recently found again on facebook I used to climb with and could out run me at the time had this happen to here a year ago. Its even on her Facebook page and had to have brain surgery. The alleged cause of strokes is said to be caused by months of no sun. i.e. CO OR WA were a few places I resided. Also another fella I know wife died at a young age from MS. He said the doctors told him statistics prove that more case have shown up extreme higher category in areas that had long gloomy winters. I'm just the messenger here so don't attack me. The key word here is HIGHER RISK.....
For myself these states are not applicable as I am one that enjoys warmer weather and ladies in shirts and heels. ;) lol
Sorry as an elderly man I would not entertain 20 below zero again nor shoveling snow............

AZ and New Mexico has some great Elk hunting and winters are not as harsh.
CA, do to the mass exodus has some really cheap ranches up for grabs, And before anyone lights into me about CA gun laws.....The good people of CA will soon have their Ukraine. Only with a bigger bang. ;) This country was stolen from primitives and it can be stolen back from primitives........

[Just Duke]

So my dad is about to retire and wants to move to Montana from northern NY. Any place you think is the best. He hunts and has horses and rides dirt bikes and all that stuff. He is not a city fan but his girlfriend is alot younger and still needs to work. Where should he go and where should he avoid? Any input please!

Has he considered buying a fifthwheel/toyhauler/RV and joining the 6,000,000 Snowbirds in Mesa and Apache Junction AZ in the winter? Tons of horse people there.

[smokeywolf]

Hey Duke, From your post #79, "CA, do to the mass exodus has some really cheap ranches up for grabs," There may be a few cheap ones, but watch out for those property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes and regulations. They'll hurt you.

smokeywolf

[Just Duke]

Hey Duke, From your post #79, "CA, do to the mass exodus has some really cheap ranches up for grabs," There may be a few cheap ones, but watch out for those property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes and regulations. They'll hurt you.

smokeywolf

Well aware sir. I have no job and don't want one, I have just about everything including pants mailed to me, property taxes a penitence compared to us in OR and WA. I would never have residency there either. Second home/ranch N. of Sac yes, but not primary home/ranch. I do love the good peoples of CA.

Tell me, Sac/San seems to have an infestation of sewer rats. How do you guys down South plan on dealing with those nasty self serving pests?
Tell me about these regulations and do they apply to gang bangers and illegals? Apparently they don't seam to work or are they observed or enforced.

[Just Duke]

So how about Montana...................

[starmac]

No need to worry about Montana, if the OP wanders half as much as this thread has, he will likely wind up in Honduras anyway. lol

[Idaho Mule]

I just read this whole thing. Wow is all I gotta say. JW

[smokeywolf]

With regard to the sewer rats, you must be speaking of the lying anti-American, Socialist politicians like Feinstein, Boxer, and the hemorrhoids that surround her, er, them, er, it.

How about Montana? I will always feel a bit of envy of our Cast Boolit members who have settled there. Even as a youngster, I was interested in Montana and in grammar school and junior high school wrote reports on one of my favorite Montanans, Charlie Russell. Back in 1966 or '67 visited the Russell home in Great Falls and the log cabin studio.

Alas, the Mrs. is very easy-going and will, 99+% of the time, go along with whatever I say. For that reason, I go to great lengths and am very careful to make sure that she is, at the very least, as happy as I am with my choices.
She manipulates me by being the kindest, most attentive and thoughtful wife you could imagine. Example? The 18 year old single malt that I'm sipping as I type this, she bought for me without my asking.
She has said that she'd prefer to live in a milder climate; I'm putty in her hands.

smokeywolf

[waksupi]

Re:Employment-- There is a growth bank with corp.headquarters in Kalispell, AND BRANCHES in Eureka AND Lewistown...might pay to see if there is a chance to hook up with them jobwise...(Glacier Bank Corp.)... fwiw,Onceabull

They are also in Polson, Ronan, and some others. I bank there.

[pull the trigger]

Yes she should have no problem getting a job. She does sometin in an old folks home and teach horse riding. I really do not see him snowbirding. You guys have alot of great info and We do appreciate it very much!

[Ajax]

I am so glad the internet wasn't around when i was a kid. I would have never went outside. I grew up in the Big Thicket in south east Texas. Apparently we have bugs and snakes who would have thunk it. :kidding: Seriously if you don't want to deal with wild animals and bugs don't move into the wild.

Mosquitoes, chiggers, and ticks are seasonally common in the Big Thicket, so come prepared with repellent. The nearest stores are 8 miles away in Kountze. City folk don't usually like where i grew up lol.
But this is where god would vacation. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99350&d=1394619605

Andy

[starmac]

Dad gum, does that Hardin county jail still have it's hard earned reputation? lol Is the starlight inn still at honey island?

[Ajax]

The Hardin county jail is definitely living up to it's reputation but last i heard the starlight had burned down. I haven't been home but for 12 days in 13 years though and that was last Christmas.


Andy

[starmac]

I had more fun in that part of the country than the law allows, coarse I was younger and a whole lot wilder. lol Hate to hear about the starlight, the place was sort of a legend in it's own right.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

So how about Montana...................

We are full, stay home

[Just Duke]

I am so glad the internet wasn't around when i was a kid. I would have never went outside. I grew up in the Big Thicket in south east Texas. Apparently we have bugs and snakes who would have thunk it. :kidding: Seriously if you don't want to deal with wild animals and bugs don't move into the wild.

Mosquitoes, chiggers, and ticks are seasonally common in the Big Thicket, so come prepared with repellent. The nearest stores are 8 miles away in Kountze. City folk don't usually like where i grew up lol.
But this is where god would vacation. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99350&d=1394619605

Andy


And Alligators......
I lived in the mountains of CO and saw nary a bug.

[Just Duke]

We are full, stay home

Don't worry I have found sanctuary elsewhere.

[Beerd]

I've been thinking on the Original Post question.

If he is looking for something different, the eastern 2/3 of Montana will have plenty of that.
If he is looking for something a little more like home, i.e. trees and water, the northwest corner of the state is where to be.
..

[NVScouter]

He is not a farmer. Not sure how that started.

Ha I had to go back and look. MT Gianni derailed us early in post #16.

Heck to hunt and ride his motorcycle anywhere is good.

[Ajax]

I had more fun in that part of the country than the law allows, coarse I was younger and a whole lot wilder. lol Hate to hear about the starlight, the place was sort of a legend in it's own right.


Infamous is more like it lol.

Andy

[pull the trigger]

Thanks to everyone for all the input. I sent Dad a link to this and he has found it very interesting. Thanks alot!!