IMR 4198 and 3030?

[Elbow]

Thinking of working up a load for this in my winchester 94 3030 using 170 gas check, any advise?

[mrbill2]

Lyman handbook of cast bullets has starting load at 20 grs. IMR 4198 Max 27 grs.for 170 bullet.

[Wayne S]

First it was 4064, now 4198, whats next 4895 or 748 ? Invest in a Lyman cast bullet reloading manual

[leadman]

Or log in to Hodgdon's website. They have data for IMR, Hodgdon, and Winchester.

[Elbow]

Just trying to better my knowledge. Don't have a lot off money. Sorry for asking. And you wonder why our numbers of shooters and hi gets are. Declining on this country. Maybe we would be better served by helping each other instead of being snobs.

[TheCelt]

Just trying to better my knowledge. Don't have a lot off money. Sorry for asking. And you wonder why our numbers of shooters and hi gets are. Declining on this country. Maybe we would be better served by helping each other instead of being snobs.

Whoa Elbow, they ARE helping you. It looks like you are new to the site so welcome aboard!!! It kinda shows good form to do your own research before asking for advice and both the Lyman cast Boolit handbook and Hodgdon's on-line reloading data are GOLD MINES of reloading and casting information. Also, a lot of folks are hesitant to quantify or qualify a load for you; Some decisions you just have to make yourself. You may not have much money but you do have an internet connection. Google 30-30 and H4198 and you'll get plenty of reading material. Good luck to ya!

[Wayne S]

Your profile says police Lt. so you should be knowledgeable with computers ,
http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=51
Plus did you do the "search" thing ??
Search = http://castboolits.gunloads.com/search.php?searchid=1219470
only 4 pages

[kmk1012]

I agree with elbow, not everyone can start out as experts like some in life. Gotta ask questions to get to those prestigious post counts that only boolit masters can achieve. Sorry, just venting-I quit visiting I fish.net because there were toooooooo many hoytie toytie types there, I really thought there were fewer judge mental people here.

[kmk1012]

I've taken a lot of info from this site but really am disappointed by a lot of this kind of attitude towards newbies lately. Just some mere observations, have a great night!

[TheCelt]

kmk1012 I am sorry you feel that way. Nobody expects you to be an expert and the fact is even the most knowledgeable members here are still learning. The OP asked for load advice for a specific caliber and powder. That information is listed all over the internet and several members pointed the OP in that direction even providing links to the requested data. One thing you will almost NEVER see ANYWHERE is someone recommending a "recipe" for a person/firearm/boolit that they do not know. There are just to many other variable to consider and consequences of mistakes to severe. I think you'll find this a warm and inviting forum if you'll do your homework first.

[.429]

A lot can be learned here. U just have to wade thru all the grumpy ol men LOL. ask whatever u want!

[sundog]

Don't forget about the load data on castpics.

[Elbow]

So, for me casting and reloading are a whole new sport. I have hunted all my life with bow and rifle and been very successful. I have 4 boys and a daughter and they are all into it too I also have many friends and friends kids who are and I have been fortunate to share my knows he with them always asking nothing in return, just like the old time Vermonters I grew up with showed me. From deer huntin to rabbit dogs to fishing. It is my privilege to pass their teachings on and I have. When I disco verdd this site it was milked when I discovered traditional archery a few years ago. I had so much to lear n any these forums are so helpful. Vin my archery journey I never felt as if I was dealing with some elitist who acted better than thou because they had more experience. They always shared info and ANswered questions selessly just like those old Vermonters. Too bad about the few on here I am sure the majority aren't Klimt that however I've had enoughso I'm done here. Hope you guys look at yourselves and act differently towards the next newbie. He's probably a good guy who just wants to learn. Help him out. And even though I'm done if I could help any of you, even the elitist I still will, because its the right thing to do. But I've had enough, so long,I hope you think hard about how you treat the next new guy, maybe me leaving will help others feel more welcome here. Thanks for listening.

[Hard_Cast]

WOW. What will you do when the first round of loads don't group? There's no reason to go flying off the handle that way, they gave you very sound advice. Low on Money and can't buy the manual? -although Lyman is a VERY good one to have- Go over to hodgdon.com and check out their online reloading data center. It is GREAT. When in doubt, the only surefire way to find out which powder is better is to start at MINIMUN charges and load up some mild to moderate charges of both, and work up. Please ask you questions on here with an open mind, you'll get much farther.

Good luck in your endeavors, but beware. Reloading is addictive!!

[mikeym1a]

I have noticed that 'tact' is not in good supply on this site. Rather than jumping on him, just give him the info, and a reference for looking it up himself. I got the same type of **** when I started out here. There is a lot of info here, if you know where to look. That is sometimes a mystery to some (me included) I've looked for stuff on this site numerous time, and seldom find what I'm looking for. I often get distracted because I'll find something totally unrelated that is interesting, and follow it instead. Cast pics. Loads on Cast Pics? I didn't realize that. As far as load info is concerned, yes, there is the load info offered by the powder manufacturers. It is limited. But it is a starting place. My advice to the OP is to go to cornellpubs.com and look at their old loading manuals. These are reproductions. The price is quite moderate, and the info quite interesting and useful. Cheers, everyone.

[.429]

I don't understand the concept of wanting to be an active member of a forum, but getting upset with some of the questions. the OP asked a decent question. He wasn't rude about it at all. We're always told to use the "search" function (which doesn't work very well LOL). I can't help but wonder if the grumpy ol men on here are the same ones who say "Facebook is garbage"? However, the guys/gals on the casting/reloading groups on FB are much nicer and more respectful than some on here. Why reply to questions that bug u? Scroll down to something else and let the friendly guys answer it....sheesh!

[chsparkman]

First, let me start by saying that this forum is the first thing I look at everyday when I open my computer. I even find myself reading it at work at down times using my iPhone. Since joining, I have become a fan of many regulars and have gleaned a great deal of knowledge from them. I have also purchased lead, brass, molds, gas checks and gas check makers from members. Without the forum, I would have been at a total loss as to where to find some of these things. That being said,

When participating in a forum, one cannot be thin skinned. The written word, when not thoughtfully prepared, doesn't always portray the full intent of the writer. If the two men had been face-to-face, and the same advice was given, it is unlikely that the OP would have been offended, as the missing part of the message, body language, would have been perceived. My advice would be:

1. When writing a response, be very aware of the tone, or lack of it, that your words produce.

2. When reading a response, realize that a curt response is probably not a slight or insult and simply take the advice at face value and wait for others to chime in.

3. Be apologetic when someone takes offense at your response, since you didn't mean for them to take it that way in the first place.

As to the OP's original request, that combination of powder and boolits should work well in the Win 30/30. I use 4198 with 150 gr. gc boolits. It doesn't meter well through my powder measures, so I usually have to trickle each load. Get the sizing right. If you get leading, then try slugging the bore and match your boolits to that size or slightly larger. Should be fun working it up.

[.429]

Good advice ^^^ I think another part of the problem is that we are from all over the place. In some areas, the folks are hot headed. Other areas, the folks are laid back and more respectful. I once dated a girl from NY, and me being from Alabama. Wow! We were both a couple of decent folks, but the way we dealt with each other was a disaster...LOL!

[GBertolet]

Elbow, 4198 is a good choice for cast bullets in the 30-30. I use the IMR brand with the Lyman 311291 170gr bullet. Start at the lower charge weights and work up until you find the right safe charge weight that your rifle likes. If I remember correctly, Ken Waters in his book "Pet Loads" rates this powder very high for use in the 30-30 with cast bullets.

As suggested previously, I would get the latest Lyman loading manual. It's about an inch thick, and it has lots of cast bullet data, as well as jacketed, for about every cartridge made. In soft cover it costs around $20, and is money well inversted.

[TXGunNut]

First it was 4064, now 4198, whats next 4895 or 748 ? Invest in a Lyman cast bullet reloading manual

Agreed, have had a few issues with info found in that manual but all in all it's the first place I look for cast boolit info.

[.429]

^^^grumpy ol men^^^

[ShooterAZ]

Go to the cast pics link at the very bottom of this page. Then click on load data lookup, enter 30-30, and there is a plethora of cast boolit data there.

[quilbilly]

My 30/30 prefers 5744 but my 6mm Rem, 7mmTCU, 250 Sav, and a couple others all prefer 4198 with cast. My 22 Hornet likes 4198 with jacketed but not cast. Every rifle has its own personality. Don't worry about the grumpy guys. They are trying to help too. This is a terrible addiction so must be discouraged:drinks:

[DLCTEX]

Mama always said " if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all". It was great advice. We don't needIMHO self appointed question police, we have moderators for that. As for me I totally dislike Hogdon's new site, it took away much good information.

[Camba]

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=2079

[Hard_Cast]

As for me I totally dislike Hogdon's new site, it took away much good information.

Good thing I printed out all the calibers I cared about! Damn, got a 7-08 since then......

[TXGunNut]

As for me I totally dislike Hogdon's new site, it took away much good information.-DLCTX

Uh-oh, I always liked that site.

Procedure is a bit different, seems OK to me. Still no 32-20 data. ;-)

[w5pv]

To ask questions is asking for knowledge.

[Hard_Cast]

Give the man the data, and you risk error in communication. Give the man the link, he can now infer his own judgment. And come back with more to learn than which powder, something no one can say without testing...

[badgeredd]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222520-Why-some-new-members-will-do-better-than-others-here

This should be required reading for everyone before they can make a single post. No question is stupid, but some are better questions than others.

Edd

[MT Gianni]

To ask questions is asking for knowledge.

Yes and a reply to get a manual is the best answer one could get. This site has a great reputation for loading technique, we offer very little data. IMO, the data in the manual is the least important information in it. I believe we do someone a real disservice when we give them powder data without understanding what it will be shot in, how it will be loaded and what is expected for accuracy.

[462]

^^^
That is why I don't and won't post loads. Nor would I ask for load information.

[mrbill2]

Forum: CB Loads, Your Favorite Cartridge
Share your pet loads here. View these pages and use the listed data at your own risk. The load data contained within these pages can be submitted by anyone on the Internet and it is not verified to be safe.

[kawasakifreak77]

17gr IMR 4198 under a 165 boolit yielded right at 1600fps for me out of my 22" Handi rifle. Very consistent.

[TXGunNut]

Yes and a reply to get a manual is the best answer one could get. This site has a great reputation for loading technique, we offer very little data. IMO, the data in the manual is the least important information in it. I believe we do someone a real disservice when we give them powder data without understanding what it will be shot in, how it will be loaded and what is expected for accuracy.

Amen, my friend. I was lucky to have a mentor but he made sure I bought a good manual (RCBS) with my initial kit. He also gave me an older Lyman manual for contrast. He knew, as knowledgeable as he was, that a manual (or two) could teach me far more than he could. Steve Camp also mentored me as a young police officer and I had the honor of helping pass his wisdom on to the next generation of police officers...never got to teach any about reloading, tho.

[TXGunNut]

^^^
That is why I don't and won't post loads. Nor would I ask for load information.

I will, but very carefully. Many loads that we use with cast boolits are simply not easily found in loading manuals intended for "modern" projectiles. The loads that work well to propel a 170 gr CoreLokt bullet from the average thutty-thutty have little relevance to the loads I use to gently push a RD boolit a few hundred fps slower from my Marlin 336.

[Elbow]

Well many thanks to the the members here who posted private messages to me. I guess I am a little thin skinned but that is my issue. I stand corrected, there are a lot of good people on this site and a lot of them are willing to share their knoedge. I will stay on I just hope that in the future the grumpy ones use a little more tact, it may keep a newbie around instead of pushing them away a d lord knows people who are interested in things like shooting and hunting are be oming a scarce commodity, we can't afford to loose any, especicially the younger generation.

[mrbill2]

Welcome Back

[Doc.Holliday]

4198; 3031; and Rx7 are my go to powders for 32sp. and 30/30 with 173 gr. gc boolits . These powders are all reasonably close in burning speed
Real partial to 29 gr of 3031

Doc

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Welcome Elbow, there are a lot of questions ask on this site by noobies to the site that some folks just get tired of answering the simple ones , in their openion that are asked repeatedly . most of them have been hashed to death over and over, so you sometimes need to read all the answers you get before you get your knickers in a knot, and sort out the info, use what you want , forget the rest. If you use the information at this site , you can answer most questions. I ask one now and again myself[smilie=1: Hang in there and good loading/shooting:guntootsmiley:

[Hickok]

Elbow, keep coming back, it will be well worth it.

I was at the range the other day when the weather hit 60 degrees, and was shooting cast rifle loads, and a fella came over and asked about the boolits. Seems he had no knowledge at all about cast boolits out of a rifle. His questions, "Don't those lead up the barrel, what do you use them for, will they mushroom, can you hunt with them, how do you make them...etc."

He was totally clueless about cast boolits. We had a real enjoyable talk, and he had a big smile after awhile as he started to "get the picture." With his big grin, I think he was a future boolit shooter.

It was just a great conversation and some good time spent.

[.429]

Elbow, keep coming back, it will be well worth it.

I was at the range the other day when the weather hit 60 degrees, and was shooting cast rifle loads, and a fella came over and asked about the boolits. Seems he had no knowledge at all about cast boolits out of a rifle. His questions, "Don't those lead up the barrel, what do you use them for, will they mushroom, can you hunt with them, how do you make them...etc."

He was totally clueless about cast boolits. We had a real enjoyable talk, and he had a big smile after awhile as he started to "get the picture." With his big grin, I think he was a future boolit shooter.

It was just a great conversation and some good time spent.

This is what it should be like. Even behind a keyboard...

[chsparkman]

Good decision, Elbow. Welcome back.

[Bill*B]

Elbow, I'm far from an expert, but the old "30-30" is my favorite cartridge. My rifle is a Winchester, with a 12" twist. With gas check 178 grain bullets of Lyman #2 alloy (BHN 15) or harder, sized either 0.309" or 0.310", it is very happy with loads of H 4198 from 19.0 to 21.0 grains. I expect IMR 4198 would be substantially the same - the main difference is that the IMR version of the powder has a bit more bulk, and so measures differently. Load by weight and they are tit for tat, so far as I can tell. My usual is 19.8 grains (that's what my RCBS Little Dandy throws with a #23 rotor) for 1550 fps out of my short 16" Trapper barrel. The 30-30 is a sweet cast bullet number - by all means give it a go! Bill.