LEE lube question

[kooz]

I have not cast any bullets yet, but have finally got all my materials together. I would like to cast a couple thousand at a time and have them stored in a box. After reading some of the posts about how messy tumble lubing is, I figured I would need a traditional luber/sizer that uses harder lube to be able to do this and avoid a big mess. I coated a couple bullets with LEE alox last night and when I checked them this morning they had dried pretty well and really aren't messy at all, What gives ?

[Ricochet]

Some folks are hard to please.

[mooman76]

They are a little messy but that depends on your perseption of messy. You will find that they get on your bullet sizing dies and bullet seater die and have to be cleaned off. They need to be cleaned any way but maybe a little more often with LLA. Also if you don't let them dry well they will be a little messier of coarse.

[utk]

In my opinion, having used both Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) and (soft) javelina (NRA 50/50 beeswax/alox) in my Star, both lubing methods can be somewhat "sticky".

With LLA I put, say one hundred, boolits in a small plastic bag and add a measured qty of LLA and then gently knead the bag untill all boolits have an even coat.
Then I pour them onto a piece of cardboard etc. standing them up to dry with my index finger and thumb leaving a minimum of residue on my fingers. Easy to wipe off afterwards.
After drying they are a bit sticky to the touch but doesn't really leave much residue on my fingers, if any.
When the rounds are completed, though, I prefer to wipe their tips clean. More because of looks than out of necessity. Of course, I keep them in sealed ammoboxes, out of dust's way.

The Javelina-lubed (or FWFL) boolits are sticky all the time until loaded and definitely leaves my fingers "messy". After loading they need no wiping, unless lube has been transferred to the cases during handling etc.

I haven't used the harder lubes that require a heater, but they are probably less sticky.
But on the other hand they might be too hard to work well with low to medium pressure loads (after what I've read).

[Shiloh]

I use both tumble lubing and lubrisizer lubing.
One advantage of the tumble lube method is volume.

I drizzle a little liquid alox cut with mineral spirits 50/50 over a a pile of Lee .38 148-150 gr wadcutters. This lubes them slightly so they can be pushes through a Lee sizer die. A small amount of this lube goes a long way.

After Sizing, they all get a light coat of liquid alox cut about 10% with mineral spirits. After drying, these boolits have a hard, non-gummy light coating on them. All that is needed for the velocities that I run them. I never have leading problems.

You can do a LOT of boolits in a hurry with the Tumble Lube method.

Shiloh

[kooz]

Thanks for the replies, I guess I will try the Lee stuff and store them in ammo cans.

[doc25]

I use the lee stuff and haven't looked farther into it. I'm happy enough with it.

[Castinoff]

I think some casters just put too much LLA on their boolits and of course, it takes much longer to dry. I find that if you use enough to turn the boolits brown or cause a "run" down the side, you have used TOO MUCH! Also, if the boolits won't dry to the touch overnight in your home (or someplace else that is heated), again you've used TOO MUCH!

[scrat]

a few thousand cast bullets. you need to have a lot of time on your hand. Now if you are using a 6 cavity mold it could take you 2-3 hours to make 2000 bullets. Thats the easy part. Of course it depends on what kind of melting pot your using. I have a lee production pot. it works very very good. The bad part isssssssssss.

the lee liquid alox will be very quick and easy to lube. sizing 2000 bullets can take you about an hour if your really hauling azzz. On a lubrisizer. Using hard lube. with a 60 watt bulb. Your going to need a full day to do them. i mean a full day. First it will take at least 20-30 minutes to heat of the lubrisizer. Then just the process will be slow. sometimes you need to size them 2-3 times to fill the grooves. then you have to keep adjusting the flow. Then you run out and have to refill the lubrisizer and wait for it to heat up again. then you need to adjust the pressure all over again. then if the lube gets too hot it will not fill the grooves and you have to let it cool down a bit.

i think yo may be getting the point. i use the lee stuff on all my regular rifles and handguns. all the other stuff works its just too time consuming.

[wiljen]

I cast coffee cans full of bullets and then only lube them before I put em in a case. That way you can size for different guns and lube with different lubes as needed. You could go that route and just cast a ton and store em unlubed.

[mooman76]

I use a plastic butter tub to put the LLA on. Swish it around and then use the tub to spread them around on Butcher paper. It's plastic coated. Then I put the lid on the tub until next time so it doesn't get wasted.
I keep them in coffee cans to keep them clean and I don't lube all of them, just enough for use that way I can resize or lube others another way if I wish!

[Junior1942]

I unbolted my Lyman 450 from my bench after I discovered Lee Liquid Alox and Lee sizers.

[kycrawler]

i have use d la almost exclusively since i started casting i recently aquired a star sizer though and am going to try it out

[Steve in TN]

It dries hard, not sticky. I use it not only on my TL boolits but on all my boolits. They tend to size easier.

[Shiloh]

If one uses too much LA, they will be sticky, especially in the more humid climates (Tennessee is one, the upper midwest is another, Your winters are more tolerable)

The problems associated with LA are that it is put on too thick. A light coat is all thats necessary for properly lubed and trouble free boolits.

As stated in a previous post, I thin this stuff about 10% as well as but the bottle in a cup of hot water to warm it up. Warm LA is very runny and contributes to an even, light coating that dries to a non-sticky, hard consistency. Excellent results can be obtained using Liquid Alox lubing. :) Merry Christmas by the way!! :-D

Shiloh :castmine:

[Springfield]

I LLA all my wifes smokeless bullets, but use a Star sizer for my BP bullets. Scrat, you need a Star, obviously you hate whatever it is you have now. I can size 1000 bullets in an hour on my Star.

[scrat]

rcbs. I know i would love to get a start eventually. I actually just sold the rcbs. Sold all the dies. Too. I made sure i casted a whole bunch and lubed a whole bunch too. Thinking about maybe in march about getting a star ie magma.

[DaveD]

It dries hard, not sticky. I use it not only on my TL boolits but on all my boolits. They tend to size easier.

I am new to casting (haven't even started yet - just building the tools and components up). Anyway, this is the question I have. Can this Lee Liquid Alox be used on all bullets, even if they are not the Lee TL designed type? If so, do you have to keep lubing and drying them until the standard lube grooves are filled the same way they look with the hard lube?

Thanks for your help,

Dave

[NSP64]

Welcome DaveD,
I use LLA on my non-TL boolits I only load 20 or so at a time. I 'm working up loads. I put some on my finger then smooth it around the boolit in the lube grooves after sizing. Set them on a piece of plastic to dry(overnight or can use a fan to speed up) Haven't had leading issues. did one time (sized .429 instead of .430)[smilie=1:

[Bob Jones]

DaveD, I use the Lee lube on all my bullets, most of which are NOT tumble lube designs. For example I have one of the 358429 Keith .357 molds and a Keith .41 mold. I just tumble lube those bullets and shoot them in full power loads, 1300-1400 fps with absolutely no leading at all.

In my limited experience the lube is really not the major factor in the issue of leading, bullet fit to bore and proper alloy, not too hard and not too soft, are more important so long as you have some kind of decent lube on the bullet. Also, some powders seem to work much better with cast bullets than others.

The bottom line is you need to experiment and find what works best in your particular gun, with your mold and your lead alloy, that's a lot of the fun of it for me. It's very satisfying when you get it all figured out.

[DaveD]

Guys, Thanks for your replies, this helps me allot.

Bob,
How many times do you lube the standard groove bullets? Is it necessary to have the grooves filled?

[DaveD]

I am thinking the Lee LA is a cheaper way to go but messy. But I wondered if you could only use that method with the Lee Tumble Lube type bullets. Apparently you can use it with any type boolit.

So, if you can use the LLA lube and tumble lube method on even the hard wax style grooved boolits, will the Lee sizer still do an adequate job? What would be the downfall to this method? Maybe there is a limitation on Lee sizer die sizes?

I would prefer to just use the Ranch Dog molds, tumble Lube grooves and a gas check, but they don't yet cover every caliber. So I may want to get some from other sources that only have standard hard wax lube grooves. I don't want to buy a lubrisizer if I don't need to.

[Ricochet]

Yes, the Lee sizers will work with any boolits, and I'd much rather use them than a lubrisizer with fitted top punches and such. The drawback is the limited availalbe sizes off the shelf, but for about $25 they'll make a custom set in any size you want.

[DaveD]

Yes, the Lee sizers will work with any boolits, and I'd much rather use them than a lubrisizer with fitted top punches and such. The drawback is the limited availalbe sizes off the shelf, but for about $25 they'll make a custom set in any size you want.

Ahh, this is good to know. Thanks for your reply Ricochet!

[drinks]

It is not hard to open a standard size die up a few .000" , saving the cost AND wait for a custom sizer.
If the LLA being sticky is a problem, you could find some powdered mica to dust on the dried bullets, but I have found $1 a can TALC baby powder works fine, be sure to avoid the powders that are corn starch, they make a mess when shot, at least for me.