Diamondback powder?

[Desertbuck]

I know I know! I am usually a do-it-yourselfer and have been making my own black powder for some time. But with my new Rossi m92 in 45cl I can tell I am going to be wanting to spend more time shooting it than time to make powder for it. And yes I have done some digging around here ,but would prefer to hear from a couple of you to me as to what you think about Diamondback gunpowder and what granulation you would recommend as a universal rifle and pistol powder. I'm leaning toward getting just ffg.
The reason I am going for Diamondback powder is its price $14.00bl if I order 15 pounds that is. That's the best deal I've seen for any kind of real black powder.

Thanks DB

[Don McDowell]

3f is what you'll want for the 45, but don't fall compleletely in love with that Diamondback powder, sounds like when it's gone it's gone there won't be any more.

[Lead pot]

When Goex quit making the express powder I did some serious searching for a new powder to take it's place. Diamondback was one.
I had 10 pounds of it because I could get it local. I ended giving 4 pounds away for match donations for our local match.
It's not worth the can it's in. Get some KIK it's the same price your going to pay for diamond.

[Nobade]

I got a case of Diamondback FFg a few years ago, and it does work well. It is not quite as powerful as KIK and the fouling is different - kind of grey and greasy, but it does work just fine and I can get very good accuracy from a variety of firearms by using it. I don't know that I would pay that much for it though, if you buy a 25 lb. box from Powder Inc. it is quite a bit cheaper.

As for granulation, either FF or FFF will work in the 45 Colt, if you are going to use it in any big cases I would lean to the FF. I also like FF in 45 revolvers, as it kicks a wee bit less.

-Nobade

[Lead pot]

I just pulled out some comparisons with the Diamond and KIK shot with the same caliber and bullet with the best SD results.
Diamond in the .45-70.......66gr 2Fg 1141.1 avg. H 1163.6 fps....L 1128.2 fps SD...14.8/1.30%
KIK .45-70.....66 gr 2Fg 1216.3 avg...H 1226.2 fps...L 1201.7 fps SD...9.2/0.76% The SD's are way too high for my liking but this is with the early lots of KIK. Now the SD's run around 6 or less since the plastic cans are in use.

The Olde Eynsford is a very good powder also.

I don't pay too much attention at the velocity unless it is needed for pit safety 1100 fps will drop a buff or get down range as well as 1200 fps I look at what the paper or iron looks like at different ranges.
The problem I had with Diamond is the fouling. It was worse in the muzzle loaders making it a must to swab the bore after just 3 shots.

[Maven]

I've been using it for several years in my ML rifles and BP revolvers and find that it is cleaner burning than either GOEX or Graf's (Wano), but not faster. You may want to look at this guy's pricing too: http://addictedtoblackpowder.com/index.html

[owejia]

No problem using it in my cheroot cannon canes and small cannons. Used some in some bp 38 s&w crtge guns, worked fine.

[Don McDowell]

None of the distributors that used to carry diamondback are listing it, other than the one in Illinois and they still list Elephant.
So whether the stuff is good bad or indifferent a person would still need to think about how much time money and effort you'ld want to put in to getting loads developed with a powder you can't get any more of?

[John Boy]

Diamondback makes their charcoal using the Imbauba tree, a type of palm tree that is common in the tropical regions of the Western Hemisphere. The charcoal produced from this wood is not rich in sugar & creosote.
KIK makes their charcoal using Alder Buckthorn, noted historically the best wood for gunpowder charcoal because it is rich in sugar and leaves the most creosote in the charcoal

Charcoal is 'the engine' for black powder aiding in a moist burning foul

So why buy an inferior powder when the price between Diamondback & KIK are relatively the same?

[bigted]

what a riot ... the different opinions that differ so widely between folks shooting the same powder in the same type guns. very informative and thought provoking.

so I gather that the diamondback is going the same direction as the cartridge and express has gone?

[owejia]

John can you mix sugar and cresote together and add to charcoal and enhanse it?

[Maven]

"So why buy an inferior powder when the price between Diamondback & KIK are relatively the same?"

An "inferior powder", John? How many pounds of it have YOU tried? And, btw, I paid $11/lb. for mine including Hazmat + a hefty shipping fee. As for fouling, excess650 has it right: It will foul as much as Goex or Wano (Never saw or tried Kik) under certain conditions. However, using 1 H20 : 6 Ballistol as a patch lube, I don't have to wipe the bore of any of my rifles or smoothbores during a typical range session (25+ shots). With a grease lube, e.g. Stumpy's "Moose Snot," which I only use on a woods walk, I wipe the bore after every 5 shots, mostly to prevent hard loading and delaying other shooters. On a more humid day, I don't really need to wipe until I've taken 10 or 12 shots.

[Desertbuck]

I've been using it for several years in my ML rifles and BP revolvers and find that it is cleaner burning than either GOEX or Graf's (Wano), but not faster. You may want to look at this guy's pricing too: http://addictedtoblackpowder.com/index.html


Lol that's actually the webpage I went to at 15 pound plus shipping it works out to rate around $14 a pound.

[Desertbuck]

I've been using it for several years in my ML rifles and BP revolvers and find that it is cleaner burning than either GOEX or Graf's (Wano), but not faster. You may want to look at this guy's pricing too: http://addictedtoblackpowder.com/index.html


I was actually looking at Buffalo arms and it looks like they have Goex powder close enough to my price range I just may go that route I'm familiar with Goex. But still that Diamondback gunpowder is mighty tempting. I also see that they have 4f and 5f Elephant powder. I was told they went out of business some time ago.

[Maven]

Desrtbuck, I bought my mixed case of DB from the site I mentioned earlier @ ~$11/lb. At that time, even with my dealer's discount, Graf/Wano was ~$1/lb. more. And yes, DB is produced in the same facility that once made Elephant BP, but it is most assuredly not Elephant: faster & cleaner than Elephant. Btw, with a wet patch, I really don't need to clean between shots, regardless of whether I use Goex, Graf's, or DB. The difference is DB fouls less than the other 2.

[montana_charlie]

Btw, with a wet patch, I really don't need to clean between shots, regardless of whether I use Goex, Graf's, or DB. The difference is DB fouls less than the other 2.
The amount of fouling can depend on the amount of compression the powder is subjected to.
How much do you compress Diamondback?

CM

[curator]

[QUOTE=John Boy;2670635]Diamondback makes their charcoal using the Imbauba tree, a type of palm tree that is common in the tropical regions of the Western Hemisphere. The charcoal produced from this wood is not rich in sugar & creosote.
Johnboy,
Embauba is actually not a palm but one of several species of Cecropia, a fast-growing "weed tree" of tropical America. The wood does in fact contain a fair amount of sugar but must be extremely low in creosote since it rots away completely in a few months on the ground. I was in Brazil last year and talked to an executive of the company that owned Elephant, and now makes Diamondback black powder. He knew very little about their source of charcoal (and trees in general) but gave me the impression that they bought whatever was available in the quantities they needed. The most common wood used for charcoal is the Eucalyptus which is farmed over vast acreage in southern Brazil.

[John Boy]

Curator, thanks for the additional information. This is an interesting overview of Embauba ...
http://www.rain-tree.com/cecropia.htm
Interesting that it is used for many medicinal remedies, including diabetes

[John Boy]

Maven, you speak about fouling control. With your listed powders, can you match this?
38-55, 42gr of KIK 1.5F in 25 rounds and 42gr KIK FFg in another 25 rounds ... all of the 50 rounds shot consecutively with no blow tubing or patching at 200 - 500 meters with no lose of accuracy.
Here's a picture after shooting the 50 consecutive rounds of the KIK foul: 1 wet cotton ball and 3 dry cotton balls ... Can you match it shooting Diamondback?
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgway%20May%202011/DSC00397.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Ridgway%20May%202011/DSC00397.jpg.html)

[Desertbuck]

Could someone post a picture of there DB powder or powders? I cant fined any good pictures of the powder itself.

[Maven]

John & CM, Firstly, I use DB almost exclusively in ML's (mostly flint- and caplock rifles and smoothbores) with an occasional excursion into cartridge guns (.44mag. + CB and Marlin 1895 Microgroove .45-70 +CB), so compression is hard to quantify. However, I strive for consistency in loading all of them. Secondly, in the ML guns, cleanliness rivals what you are experiencing even when using 80 - 85grs. DB FFg. The 20ga. trade gun w/patched roundball, does leave an occasional "crud ring" though (easily removed). The Marlin is a bit dirtier, but 2 wet patches (commercial moose milk or home brewed version of same), followed by 2 dry patches, take care of the powder fouling. In my Ruger SBH, using Lyman #429421 sized to .431" and lubed with a good BP lube, I can use 32grs. FFFg, which I compress when seating the CB. I damp swab the bbl. after every 5 shots, but it doesn't take many patches to clean the bbl., cylinder pin, and cylinder so that I can use it with smokeless loads. Btw, this was just an experiment to see what kind of accuracy and velocity I could get from it's 10.5" bbl.: 987fps; same accuracy, i.e., excellent, same as with that CB and smokeless loads.

Hope this clarifies things,

Paul


P.S. If I were competing in long range matches with BP cartridge rifles, I'd be apt to test a variety of BP brands, including the high $ ones. At present though, the longest shot I have to take is typically 100 yds. and sometimes 125 on a woods walk, usually offhand.

[Lead pot]

Could come someone post a picture of there DB powder or powders? I cant fined any good pictures of the powder itself.

D.B

I will look out in the shed to see if I still have a partial can of that powder and take a picture for you.
I might have blended the last can I kept with a can of Schuetzen and FA-4 and used it for rolling bowling pins with the .50.

[BPShooter]

I have a 25lb lot, that I can't wait to use up the stuff shoots great but fouls terrible. I've tried three different lubes with no luck. I find my self cleaning after every event, not my idea of fun. So if Diamond Back goes away great, I should have bought American anyways!

[montana_charlie]

John & CM, Firstly, I use DB almost exclusively in ML's (mostly flint- and caplock rifles and smoothbores)

Hope this clarifies things,
It does clarify the impression I had from your earlier comments.

When I shot muzzloaders frequently, I would take the shot, run a bronze brush down the bore, turn it once, and drag it out.
With the muzzle tipped down I would pat the stock to jar out a small pile of 'fouling'.
Then, it was drape the patching cloth over the muzzle and punch in the next ball.

The 'amount' of fouling would have been hard to quantify, and whether it was dry or moist would have remained unkown to me.

However, BPCR, where you can look through the barrel after the shot, and where you push a patch through with a flexible plastic rod, is a program where the actual 'feel' of the fouling is something sampled frequently.
The amount, and the texture are clearly 'experienced', and what you get from different powders is very quantifiable.

Today, I have no information to share on the various brands because I only shoot one. But, the day will come ...

CM

[Lead pot]

Try straight Vaseline for patch lube. I can shoot our small 25-30 shot match with out the need to wipe.

[bigted]

leadpot ... never tried straight Vaseline as I thought it would develop tar. don't know why tho as I use it 50/50 with bee wax for lube cookies. gonna have to get another jar of the stuff and give it a try.

thanks for the tip.

[Lead pot]

Ted I have used it for patch lube for some time now along with some other I mix. I can shoot a full 25 round match using it and no problem cleaning the cap or flint locks with just plain water and a little Murphy's.

[bigted]

kewl ... have to give it a try. wonder how it do in C&B revolvers? I know the Crisco do well but I feel it could be improved on somehow.

[Lead pot]

I'm talking about a patch lube. Just a light coat on ticking.