Van's Instant Gun Blue ??

[yman]

Anyone every try this Vans Instant Gun Blue. I was at a show recently and there was a guy there selling a similar product. He sanded a spot on a shotgun barrel, cleaned it, and used a similar product to reblue the barrel. It was impressive, he claimed it would blue any gun back to the original color because it reacted to the metal and just did not color the metal as cold blue does. I suspect his product was similar to this Vans product. I have used cold blue before and it does look splochy. So has anyone every tried Vans or a similar bluing procuct. How did you like it and what was the name of what you used.

[leftiye]

I got a bottle. When new it blued well, about like the old time liquid blues used to. I put some that had had a Model 19 sideplate dipped in it back into the bottle. It ruined the rest of what was in the bottle.

Can't beat Oxpho blue on warmed steel, scrubbed with steel wool maybe. Works just fine with paste just put on (no degreasing, you can if you want, or heating), left for a while until almost drying, wipe off with paper towel, repeat. Paste mixed with liquid seems to work even better than either as supplied.

[oldred]

He claimed it would blue any gun back to the original color because it reacted to the metal and just did not color the metal as cold blue does.



Typical "Snake oil salesman", he takes the major problem with a product and tries to present it as something desirable! He's right cold blue reacts with the metal to leave a thin (a VERY thin!) coating that will not only wear off in a short time but it will continue to react with the metal and not only change color but it will make the metal even more prone to rusting! Another trick he is using is to only show the potential customer a small area instead of doing a large area (particularly a large flat area) where streaking and uneven coloring is the usual result.


The exception to most cold blues seems to be the Oxpho blue that was mentioned, I have not used it myself but I have a friend that does and he really likes the stuff. I have examined the guns he has blued with Oxpho and they are definitely different than any cold blue I have seen/used with very good coloring that's free from streaking and uneven shades of blue/black, it still is not as durable as a hot or rust blue but it sure seems to me to be a lot tougher than other cold blues.

[Wolfer]

I've used Brownells Dicropan T4 and have very pleased with it. It's not hot blue or rust blue but it's pretty good.
I blued one of my Mauser builds with it. Temporary of course. That was a few years back and it's still wearing it.

[nekshot]

I like Vans very much but you better prepped properly. I found Vans work best with the metal warmed up, and if the metal is not taking Van's blue after a couple apps then use oxpho and you will get a good job. I think the reason for that comes back to prep.

[Cmm_3940]

I quickly learned that the Birchwood Casey stuff from the LGS isn't worth squat as more than a scratch coverup, and barely that. A bit of research and I found Oxpho paste. I've had good results and would recommend the product.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/cm6259/oxpho.jpg

[nekshot]

What I would like to know is the magic these muzzle loader builders use to get that grey old world finnish on guns. Wakesupi says they use cold blue and I believe it but they have something figgured out that I don't know yet!

[fordwannabe]

I have used Vans for years(as well as others, seems different metal parts prefer different solutions) it is like a paint job on a car all the success is in the prep work, clean, degrease, clean again, degrease a final time. If you read the bottle never put the part in the bottle as it will destroy the rest of the solution. I use solo cups and Dixie paper cups for small parts. All parts seem to do better if heated. I also use a toothbrush and cleaning patches for application on larger areas and large parts then use steel wool pads that have been soaked in alcohol then dried to burnish the parts. when the color is as you like seal with a good gun oil or ATF to neutralize the reaction of the solution with the metal. It is not a replacement for hot blue but I have used it on many parts that have held up well when replacing a small part or two on a gun and not wanting to reblue the whole firearm. My Dad was a thrifty individual and bought a 1917 enfield at a yard sale for $100. The workmanship on the sporterizing was pretty nice but the finish had never been done. I suggested a nice hot blue from a LGS to really finish off a nice rifle...too expensive so he had me do the whole thing in cold blue I used Vans and it came out fairly nice(Dad was happy and it was cheaper).It is really looking worse for wear at this point but I did that gun in 1998. PREP PREP PREP. I have a quart bottle on my self right now. Tom

[johnson1942]

necshot, when i rust blued a barrel for my muzzle loader that was made by the oregon barrel company it came out as you described. the reason im sure is they make their muzzle loader barrels out of leaded steel. the leaded steel doesnt react the same as modern steel. at first i thought whats going on here but the more i looked at at i liked it because it looked old but in very good shape. i did see a muzzle loader up in minn. that was made in the 1840/s and never been shot much. it was like new in every way. your right, the barrel and steel on it was red brown and flawless. sure would like to know how they did that?

[Iowa Fox]

I have been using Vans for over ten years and have had excellent results with it. I have never blued an entire gun with it but would not hesitate if I was going to cold blue one. I bought it at the local gun show after watching the guy demo it. After the crowd left I talked to the guy for quite a while to pick up additional pointers. For touch ups on guns I buy I have found nothing better to match the original finishes. That stock finish they have also works very well for repairs. I'm really sold on the Vans stuff including their Groil which I use to lube my presses and sizers. Of course old original stuff of any value stays old original stuff without any touching up.

[oldred]

that was made in the 1840/s and never been shot much. it was like new in every way. your right, the barrel and steel on it was red brown and flawless. sure would like to know how they did that?



Easy, if you are doing a rust blue skip the boiling step and just card the rust, repeat each step the same as rust bluing but always just skip boiling the part to convert the rust.

[Huffmanite]

Sorry, never tried the Van's product.

Not unusual for someone demonstrating a cold blue product to use a shotgun barrel or receiver. Why? Softer metal that takes a cold blue better and much more likely to produce good looking results. Same thing kinda applies to rifle barrels which is softer than metal in a rifle receiver. I've used a number of cold blues in the past, with Blue Wonder and Oxpho Blue being my favorite, and I've generally had good results on a rifle barrel. On a heat treated harder metal rifle receiver, my results have generally not been that good.

Picked up a rifle from a gunsmith yesterday, that I'd used Blue Wonder on its barrel 3 or so years ago. I'd broken off the bolt handle on it. Anyway, gunsmith is one of few in Houston area that does hot bluing of firearms. I mentioned the blue on the barrel and told him it was Blue Wonder. He thought it looked very good and admitted to using Blue Wonder himself with good results. As to Browenells Oxpho Blue, consider it good too and I have used it more than the Blue Wonder. While I consider the Blue Wonder better, the Oxpho is easier to use.

[oldracer]

I just did a post about the barrel and other small parts finish on the muzzle loader I have built. There is a link to the main site that sells it as well as many local places. The finish has a clear coat over top that I could not get to come off except for sanding or file work! It has many colors and mine ended up mostly black with a case hardened sort of look and the clear made it semi gloss. So far the Goex has not bothered it and if comes in grey shades and others.

[yman]

I figured this wonder blue stuff like Vans was to good to be true. I like the sound of Oxpho Blue and Blue Wonder, I think I will check out one of these. I have a Security Six that looks like ****, shoots amazing, but looks like ****. After seeing the guy disply the amazing bluing I got the bug to clean up the ol gun and make it all pretty again. Thank for all the info guys, if I get "round to it" I might even post some pics. I have done small parts b/4, but never a hole gun, cant make it look much worse than it does now.

[oldred]

Have you considered rust bluing? This is a true blue/black old-time gun finish that's as durable and long lasting as they come, it will look great and the only equipment you will need is a pot to boil some water in. Regardless of what you decide to use the outcome will depend on the prep and it sounds as if the gun will need an all-over sanding so be extremely careful to keep all the edges and lettering crisp and not round them off.

[yman]

I never tried rust bluing, guess I will read up on it. I got several size pots so thats not a problem. Sounds like the results I would like. I dont mind the prep work, whats the down side to rust bluing? I reckon if it was that easy there would not be cold blue or products like Vans or Oxpho.

[DougGuy]

Can't beat Oxpho blue on warmed steel, scrubbed with steel wool maybe. Works just fine with paste just put on (no degreasing, you can if you want, or heating), left for a while until almost drying, wipe off with paper towel, repeat. Paste mixed with liquid seems to work even better than either as supplied.

I haven't used Oxpho blue but just got a small bottle of the liquid and also a small bottle of the paste. You are saying to mix the two, use on a warmed part, then make a 2nd pass with it?

[waksupi]

When using cold blue, for small parts I put them in a small plastic container, and pour in enough to cover. Let set thirty seconds, rinse, and repeat. You get a nice even dark blue. It would work for larger parts, if you had enough of the liquid. After using, particulates will get in the mix. Get a funnel, and strain through a coffee filter, to keep the mix active.

[Whiterabbit]

I never tried rust bluing, guess I will read up on it. I got several size pots so thats not a problem. Sounds like the results I would like. I dont mind the prep work, whats the down side to rust bluing? I reckon if it was that easy there would not be cold blue or products like Vans or Oxpho.

down side. takes a long time. I used EXPRESS blue and it still took over 6 hours. normal rust blue would have taken weeks. Other down side is clean is not clean enough. cant be too degreased. Wont show a lot in the finish, but you'll see it. no such thing as too clean before starting the process.

[oldred]

I reckon if it was that easy there would not be cold blue or products like Vans or Oxpho.

You might be surprised!

I use Mark Lees Express blue and I find it to be quite easy, even cold blue needs to be prepped and with rust blue the finial polish can be to an even courser grit than for a cold blue. I have found that 240 grit (I use 3M wet/dry) is as fine as you need to go, certainly no more than 320, since the rusting will eliminate the remaining sanding marks and in fact it even needs the sanded surface to work properly. I even blued an old Stevens 94 single shot barrel that I took down to 180 grit and stopped there in an effort to hide pits I could not get out, it colored up quickly and I could not see a trace of the sanding marks left so in that respect it can be even easier than cold blue!

[Whiterabbit]

yes, big time. I polished mine to 400 thinking I could get away with it, and my finish did turn out a little splotchy. I bet it wouldn't have if I polished to 320 or even 240.

[oldred]

I think most of us worried (needlessly) that if we didn't get the metal polished enough it would turn out dull and/or with sand scratches showing but that's definitely not a problem. While the 180 grit might be a bit on the rough side (ok if pitting can't be entirely eliminated however) 240-320 grit marks are simply etched/eroded away, or at least that's my theory about what happens but in any case the blue will not be dull or scratchy. Rust blue does not have a really high gloss like a high polish hot blue but then it's a long way from dull too, a kind of semi-gloss satin but however it can be described it's a great looking finish!

[johnson1942]

old red, their are a lot of ways to do it but im 100 percent with you as your way is my way. it is reliable and fool proof. i thinks it is better than hot blueing and a lot cheaper.

[Huffmanite]

Have seen a barreled action that was dipped in Oxpho Blue. Belonged to a LGS owner. He had a gunsmith put a new barrel on a shot out rifle. Rifle was intended to be a truck gun and LGS owner had told the gunsmith to leave the barrel in the white, that he didn't give a hoot what the rifle looked like. Anyway, gunsmith decided the rifle deserved at least an Oxpho blue job, which he did no charge. I'd come into his store to see what cold blue product he stocked and the owner waited on me. He discovered he was out of any cold blue product and that is when he told me, you need to see what I just got back from my gunsmith done with Oxpho Blue. It was the first time I'd ever viewed a blue job done with Oxpho. LGS owner had been surprised as me on how good a job the Oxpho Blue had done when the barreled action was dipped in its solution.

[yman]

Should I plug the barrel, probably use some wooden dowels and liquid Oxpho?

[leftiye]

Much cheaper to buy a bottle (3oz ?) of paste and do it that way. Clean it (Brownell's says degreasing not necessary, and that matches my experience. But to be safe, clean it), and swab on Oxpho with Q tip. Swab it around until it starts drying, and wipe (rub it out) it off with paper towel. Repeat until good 'nuff.

[Cmm_3940]

After wiping, it's best to rinse thoroughly in cold water, then apply a coat of oil and let it sit awhile to 'cure'. This is all in the directions that come with the Oxpho.

[FrankG]

Oxpho paste ? I have the Oxpho cream but haven't seen Oxpho paste on the site , is it new ? G96 had a paste type that works pretty good .

[Cmm_3940]

The bottle I have says 'creme formula'. Its sort of the consistency of a hand lotion, thick enough to stay put without running off the workpiece, rather than being a thick paste like toothpaste.

[leftiye]

Not paste, cream. My bad, I guess. Though since you wouldn't be able to find paste it might be a moot point.

I don't do anything to it after I wipe and polish it with the paper towel. That's as in period. It works fine for one thing. Probly allows the blueing to continue some. Later (maybe you check it and rework it over the period of a few days or a week), you can just go over it again if you need to. Months and years later it looks fine. Not sayin' not to oil your gun's metal, just sayin' it's not necessary immediately after bluing with Oxpho blue. And I have several that I just left alone after I finished, so good so far (years).