45-70-Cowboy

[jjamna]

Anyone shooting a hollow base bullet in an Marlin 1895 Cowboy? Got a mold ordered, just wandering how they are going to shoot. Its a new cowboy with the Ballard Rifling.

[NickSS]

I have used a few of the Lee HB 405 gr boolits in mine and they work OK however, I prefer a lighter boolit for most of my shooting with it at low velocities. Less recoil and they still knock down targets at 200 yards so why suffer when you don't have to.

[jjamna]

I will be using trail boss powder- should be a pretty light load.

[Chuck 100 yd]

jjamna , I shoot 325 and 350 gr cast bullets in my 1895 Marlin cowboy .45-70 using 14gr Trail Boss at about 1150 fps and it is as SWEET a shootin load as you would want. Recoil is so soft the kids love it. Groups are good and that is plenty for close in (under 100yd.) deer.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c356/chuckleininger/IMG_1329.jpg
50yd target.
Have fun

[jjamna]

Got the mold and cast a few 12grains of Trail boss and I think a 4 year old could shoot it very mild recoil. Havn't really checked it on paper yet been to busy with Santa but I looks like they are going to shoot pretty good. As usual it shoots lower than factory Leverlutions. I want to get another sight but can't decide which one. I am looking at the ladder sights that replace the factory sight and a Tang site any pros or cons on the two?

[6pt-sika]

I have an 1895CB that I purchased new back about 2001 when they first came out .

I started with the Lee 340 and 405 PB bullets unsized and tumble lubed . They shot great !!!!!!!!!

Then I went to the Lyman 330 grain "GOuld" HP and sized to .459" and lubed with Thompson's Blue Angel . These shot great as well and were used to kill a rather large bodied 6 point whitetail from a distance of 21 yards while I was perched 20 feet up in a tree [smilie=1:
I thought that Lyman HP bullet would be the only cast bullet I would ever need for my 1895CB and that still may be the truth .


However I have since had the great luck of acquiring Ranch Dog moulds of 460/350 and 460/425 both gas check . And they shoot on paper just as well as the 330 HP bullet and I push them a bit faster !!!!

Bu to answer your original question about HB bullets , I have never tried them . I normally use WW's and size in .459" die . The reasoning behind the hollow base is to help obturate to bore size of a bullet that is a bit smaller then the bore diameter . In my own case my bullets have seemed to work fine for me [smilie=1:


There is another point you should consider with the HB bullets . If I'm not mistaken they only come in single cavity moulds . If you were to get a say Ranch Dog mould for thr 350 gas check bullet in the 6 cavity variety and one of the relativley cheap sizing dies that Ranch Dog sells for about $16 . You could secure gas checks etc , tumble lube and increase your productivity dramatically .

When I first started casting , I started with a couple single cavity Lee moulds , then I went to a few double cavity moulds by other makers , and it was astonishing how much quicker productivity was , but when you get comfortable with a 6 hole Lee mould , well a hundred good bullets takes virtually no time .

While my Lee 10 pound bottom pour pot is heating up I have a 6 cavity mould lying on the back of the pot to pre heat . By the time the pot is full of molten lead the mould has pre heated enough where only one or two pours are scrapped to begin . Then 18 pours later you have 100 relatively good bullets . Normally when I work with a 6 cavity mould I pour enough for about 250 bullets before going to something else or stopping .

I might also add at first I did not care for the 6 cavity moulds , but once I got it thru my head to pre heat and didn't try to handle anymore moulds at the same time . It all became good !!!!
When you have something like the 460-350 mould in 6 cavity design be aware that it will drink up some molton lead QUICKLY , so every time you make a pour add a piece . For me it seems to work better adding constantly then once evry so often .

I am sure none of this is of use , but what the heck !!!!!

Merry Christmas :-D

[6pt-sika]

By the way once you decide you would like a little more ummphh in your loads give consideration to SR4759 and XMP5744 powder . I've used both in the 45-70 with cast bullets and had very decnt to good results with both !!!!!!

[EDK]

I like a LYMAN 66 receiver sight and 17 series hooded front sight that takes interchangeable inserts for the front sight on any Marlin lever gun. The Marbles tang sight has windage--the Lyman tang sight doesn't; you have to drill and tap the gun for either one. I've used the receiver sights for 30+ years on an assortment of guns in various calibers. I finally started using the globe front after I got interested in Sharps reproductions and ordered my Shiloh Sharps.

Montana Vintage Arms makes an excellent set of tang sights for some of the Marlins; They are super quality, but they don't give them away! They're in the ballpark of $300...and worth every penny! Again, the gun has to be drilled and tapped for them.

I'm using the 300 grain RCBS gas check and #5744. I haven't done much with my pair of 1895 Cowboys since I took delivery of my 50/90 Shiloh Sharps. My stepsons have borrowed them for the last couple of years at deer season. I think I need to get them out and exercise them a little! They are a lot of fun and shoot flat with the 300 grainers. I've been concentrating on my 44 Vaqueros too much lately.

You made a good choice on this model. It isn't a lightweight to carry, but you can load it hotter than your shoulder likes and still be in a safe area. The 45/70 has been an excellent choice since 1873 in a variety of rifle types and various loadings.


:Fire: :castmine:

[jjamna]

6 pt-sika
The loads you have listed, do they need a wad or patch over the powder? I would like a hotter load. Also how does one get a hold of a Ranch Dog Mold. I may be interested

[6pt-sika]

6 pt-sika
The loads you have listed, do they need a wad or patch over the powder? I would like a hotter load. Also how does one get a hold of a Ranch Dog Mold. I may be interested

I never have used poly filler or TP wads !!!!

For the Ranch Dog moulds try ;

www.ranchdogmolds.com


I believe he has both moulds in the two cavity variety in stock as we speak at about $25 each !!!!

I gotta say I have tried every rifle mould he has made so far and have had better then decent results with all of them [smilie=1:

[6pt-sika]

6 pt-sika
The loads you have listed, do they need a wad or patch over the powder? I would like a hotter load. Also how does one get a hold of a Ranch Dog Mold. I may be interested

I do not have my load book here close to my PC at the moment . Bu tommorrow I will be more then happy to list the loads I've used with the Ranch Dog bullets and the Gould 330 HP !!!!!!

Just be aware that 425 grainer will come back pretty good with the load I am using in the light 1895CB . Not bad , but you need to be prepared the first time [smilie=1:

[jjamna]

The 425 grainer can't be any worse than factory leverlutions or Factory 180 gr in a 300 weatherby- these weatherby's hurt, got my gun sent off for a muzzle brake

[dubber123]

The 425 grainer can't be any worse than factory leverlutions or Factory 180 gr in a 300 weatherby- these weatherby's hurt, got my gun sent off for a muzzle brake

The 425's at warm levels, say 1,900 fps+ will surprise you in the Cowboy, a combination of pretty light weight, and the stock design with no recoil pad. Not an all day from the bench affair for me anyways.

[jjamna]

The hollow base bullets are not shooting to good. 405 grains with 13 grains of Trailboss. Sized to .457 with Lyman lube. Got a Ranch dog ordered and I am going to Slug( Forgot the word) the barrel however most post I have read they are going close to .460. I want to find some hotter loads because the factory Leverlutions shoot real good. I can keep the hollow bases on the paper at 100 yds but that is about it. I would like loads without any wads or fillers be cause I have never done that. ( Maybe it is time to start)

[Scrounger]

Try kicking up the speed with that hollowbase bullet, it has to have enough pressure to swage out to fill the grooves. I have no experience with Trail Boss, how about trying about 12 grains of Unique?

[6pt-sika]

The hollow base bullets are not shooting to good. 405 grains with 13 grains of Trailboss. Sized to .457 with Lyman lube. Got a Ranch dog ordered and I am going to Slug( Forgot the word) the barrel however most post I have read they are going close to .460. I want to find some hotter loads because the factory Leverlutions shoot real good. I can keep the hollow bases on the paper at 100 yds but that is about it. I would like loads without any wads or fillers be cause I have never done that. ( Maybe it is time to start)

Size your bullets in a .459" sizing die , I started with a 458 and had to go up , surprising how much difference 1/1000th can make !

Yes you will be surprised when you light them up a bit !!!!! They also came back pretty good in my 1978 vintage 1895 also !!!!!

But even thou they hit you a pretty decent wack I sure do like the look of that bullet !!!!

In my own work with 45-70's all I have ever used for alloy was pure wheel weights , so prehaps they obturate readily for me !!! Then say a harder alloy !!!

[6pt-sika]

I have never used wadds or fillers in any cast loads . I will say that XMP5744 seems less position picky then SR4759 .

[6pt-sika]

I dug up my load book a little while ago;

425 Ranch Dog - 32 grains XMP5744

350 Ranch Dog - 34 grains XMP5744

330 Gould HP - 31.5 grains SR4759

[jjamna]

Try kicking up the speed with that hollowbase bullet, it has to have enough pressure to swage out to fill the grooves. I have no experience with Trail Boss, how about trying about 12 grains of Unique?

The trail boss is a Light load for sure. Shooting the 45-70 is not much worse than shooting a 22 Mag so I think there is not enough pressure with this load. I will be trying some of the loads you all listed. I have 5 reloading manuals and the only one that really gives data for cast bullets is the Lyman and of course it doesn't have data for lee bullets. Thanks guys and Happy New Year

[jjamna]

Well guy's I went and got some IMR 3031 powder and loaded up ten.
3 at 34 gr
3 at 36 gr
3 at 38.5 gr
It was 18 degrees out so I am well pleased with the results so far. The sound and recoil are much more of what I expected from a 45-70 I guess Trail boss will be ok for just slinging lead but you need something else for precision work.
The target attached is at 100 yds with rest, Williams reciever Sight and factory front sight. And like I said it was COLD COLD COLD 18 degrees

Bottom three light load 34gr 3031
top 2 med load 35 gr 3031
the rest of them I slung at my metal target at 200 yds. Hit all but first shot it was low.
I think when I warms up I can find a good load for these 405 gr hollow bases after all
Thanks to all your loads and Ideas
P.S. I can't wait to get my 350gr Ranch Dog. will be here any day now.

[6pt-sika]

P.S. I can't wait to get my 350gr Ranch Dog. will be here any day now.


Just my opinion , but think about getting one of his .460" Lee sizing dies [smilie=1:

[ammohead]

jjamna,

I use a rcbs 405 gr gas check and 34 gr 3031 for about 1450 fps. I get 1" -1.5" groups at 50 yards. Sometimes even less. I size at .458 with no problem and no leading. 27 -29 gr of 5744 works well also.

ammohead

[jjamna]

The sizing die was ordered with the mold .460

[wilddog45]

Size your bullets in a .459" sizing die , I started with a 458 and had to go up , surprising how much difference 1/1000th can make !

Yes you will be surprised when you light them up a bit !!!!! They also came back pretty good in my 1978 vintage 1895 also !!!!!

But even thou they hit you a pretty decent wack I sure do like the look of that bullet !!!!

In my own work with 45-70's all I have ever used for alloy was pure wheel weights , so prehaps they obturate readily for me !!! Then say a harder alloy !!!
On your gould mold did you have to beagle your mold out to size to .459. I read an article in castpics that said that you did.

[6pt-sika]

On your gould mold did you have to beagle your mold out to size to .459. I read an article in castpics that said that you did.


I think there is a mix up somewhere here !

I've never enlarged a mould in my life :???:

[wilddog45]

Well the mixup was the wording of my question. I did not mean YOU yourself, but I meant would the Lyman 457122 mould drop boolits that would be oversized enough that they would size .459 when passed through the .459 sizer or would they have to be beagled up. Reason is, I just bought a 457122 and was wanting to know what size boolit falls out of the mould with WW or #2 alloy .

[6pt-sika]

Well the mixup was the wording of my question. I did not mean YOU yourself, but I meant would the Lyman 457122 mould drop boolits that would be oversized enough that they would size .459 when passed through the .459 sizer or would they have to be beagled up. Reason is, I just bought a 457122 and was wanting to know what size boolit falls out of the mould with WW or #2 alloy .

I run them thru the .459" die and it removes very little if any lead !

But to be honest I have never measured them !