What old cartridge fits?

[Wayne Smith]

I have an unmarked hand die, looks a lot like the Lyman but others made them. The only case I have that comes close to fitting is a 9mm. When I press a 9mm case all the way in it fills the die to maybe .5mm to the top. The top is sized to an ID of .317/.318". The base drops from .389" to .383". If it is for a rimmed case the case could be a little longer than the 9mm.

Any guesses as to what I have?

Anyone have a use for it?

[338RemUltraMag]

38 S&W is my best guess

[texassako]

Does it bottleneck? One heck of a taper if not. Is it one of the neck only 310 dies? Maybe for .30 Luger?

[Wayne Smith]

No neck, straight taper. This is a hand die, or vice die. Just a piece of metal with a tapered hole in it.

[Outpost75]

Sounds like. 30 Mauser. Is this threaded for a tong tool? If so, I might be interested.

Is there a number on the die body?

[338RemUltraMag]

Didnt catch the .317 at the top, new best guess is 32 S&W

[Wayne Smith]

Might be 30 Mauser, but that is a necked case and this is a smooth taper so not likely.

I assume many people do not know what a 'hand die' is. Years ago the 310 tool was the most common reloading accessory available and it did not full length resize. Lyman therefore made hand dies to use in a vice, since almost everyone had access to a vice in those days. These were the only way to full length size at that time. They were not threaded, simply a hole reamed through a piece of steel to match the case. You lubed the case, put it into the die, put this in a vice, and closed the vice to press the case into the die. Then you took the die, balanced it on a partly open vice, and used a knock out rod and hammer to remove the case from the die. Nothing was needed except the die and knock out rod, everyone had a vice and hammer.

Anyway, that is what this die is.

[Wayne Smith]

Didnt catch the .317 at the top, new best guess is 32 S&W

Humm, I'm at work and can't check, but I have 32 S&W cases and can check. Don't have the long, just the original.

[John Boy]

Fill the die cavity with CerroSafe and then start measuring the slug.
Here's the table to measure your slug to - to determine the caliber
http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Conversions/default.html

[I'll Make Mine]

The small end of that hole is well below .30 Luger or .30 Mauser. Seems to me there were some French/Belgian rounds that had a very strong taper, at least one that originally didn't have an extractor groove (though it was added after the first year or so of production), but I don't think any of them went down as far as that. I wonder if what you have there isn't a pre-form die for converting 9x19 to .30 Luger or 9 mm Mauser to .30 Mauser -- you'd run the case in there, and get a mouth that would enter the shoulder/neck area of the standard sizing die without folding or buckling, and the expander would take care of bringing the mouth back up to size for the bullet.

[Wayne Smith]

32 S&W drops through the small end of the die touching nothing until the rim catches.

I'll Make Mine, you may have something there, a step in a multiple step process.

I still wonder if anyone has any use for it cause I sure don't!

[texassako]

I was confused with the hand die comment. 310 hand tool came to my mind first since Lyman called what you have a resizer. I would take it off your hands because now I need to find out what it is, or at least post a picture of what the sized 9mm brass looks like. Always love a good cartridge mystery, and have a lot of odd ones myself. All the non bottleneck cartridges I could think of that took a .32/8mm bullet, or about what it sized to I believe, had a base no larger than about .35" or so.

[Wayne Smith]

PM sent. Tex, you pay the postage and it's yours!

[goofyoldfart]

could be for a Rook cartidge like a long bodied .310 Martini? God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofy aka Godfrey;-)

[texassako]

could be for a Rook cartidge like a long bodied .310 Martini? God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofy aka Godfrey;-)

I am not entirely sure what it was intended for. There are a couple of very obscure cartridges from the early days of semiauto pistols that are very close from Bergmann and Steyr. They are both very rare pistols though. I don't think it would have been a Rook with so much case taper, but there may be a tiny Schuetzen cartridge I don't know about. I think some of those had a lot of case taper.

[Green Frog]

If it were just a little longer, I would opine that it was a 32 Dell/32-357 forming die. That is a 357 with a straight taper to 32 caliber and used in modern schuetzen rifles. Almost the same is the 32 Miller Short except that one has a cylindrical section at the base before the taper starts. There is/was a similar cartridge from Germany called the 6.5 x 27 which was used for single shots there; it could be described as a 38 Spl tapered to 25 cal. Just a couple of random thoughts on the matter... :idea:

Froggie

[Wayne Smith]

Tex now has it so it is up to him to figure it out.