Can you identify this feeding failure? 1911 45acp

[Animal]

98526

My apologies for the blurry photo. All I had was a camera phone at the time.

RIA Govt. M1911, Wilscon Combat Service Plus 7rnd Magazine.

5.1gr Red Dot, Starline Brass, WLP Primer, Lee 452-228-1R (COWW + 1%tin. Air Cooled. Sized .452. Tumble Lubed with LLA). COL 1.245.

All sample rounds pass the plunk test. There is a variation of .001 +/- in COL.

This failure occurred on the last round (7th) after rapidly firing the first 6 rounds.

I just picked up the firearm from the gunsmith yesterday. I had some feeding issues (seldom) but wanted the problem corrected to 100% reliability. The gunsmith stated that my load was close enough to ball ammo that it shouldn't be a problem. He also stated the magazine that I was using should be sufficient. He suggested that I allow him to polish the bolt face. I left the gun with him to do just that. When I picked it up he also stated that he had also polished the feedramp.

Before I went to the range to test his work, I cleaned the gun with my normal routine; clean and scrub with Ballistol and lube slides/contact points with Miltec 1.

I don't recall any other failure that I've had looking like this one. I can't help but wonder if the bolt face and feed ramp are so dang slick that rounds is slipping through like dry socks on a freshly waxed floor.

Thanks guys!

[Scharfschuetze]

The round should have fed in a controlled manner from the time it starts to slide up the slide face and under the extractor as the slide returns to battery and chambers the round. The extractor apparently did get a chance to slide over the rim and get a grip on the the case in this instance.

Why? I'm not sure, but I'll wager that the lips of the magazine released the case prematurely and it popped up before proper controlled feeding could begin. The velocity of the slide than trapped it in the position your photo shows.

Next time you're at the range, I'd load your magazines with two rounds only and try and duplicate the jam with several iterations of attempting to get the last round to jam like that again, particularly with this magazine. While I have no way to inspect your 1911, I don't think that the polished slide face would cause this particular jam.

[StratsMan]

I agree with Scharf S.... looks like a magazine problem... the round left the lips too early... try to duplicate the problem with several different mags; preferably different brands of mags....

[jsizemore]

Boolit end of magazine follower could be tipping/dragging. Try cleaning inside magazine and/or clean alox off nose of boolit before loading. Spring could be in magazine backwards or is weak.

[Animal]

Ok, I just finished a second rang trip. I tried to eliminate magazine issues but had the same problem 2 more times except the last round completely ejected (intact) and the slide locked back. I will try a few more mags. Stay tuned. My range is in the front yard. I'll be back in a few.

[Animal]

Okay, I just tried another volley with Metalform Mags. After about 21ish I had a round go into the chamber ahead of the extracter. I tried to get a picture but for some reason it isn't showing up in my inbox.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/798490/metalform-magazine-1911-government-commander-45-acp-7-round-steel-blue-round-follower-welded-base?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[starnbar]

Do you have any mags you can borrow to see if this is a mag feed problem? The most common problem with autos is a mag issue or a dirty pistol.

[tomme boy]

How many rounds do you have on this now? I have not seen that jam before. But the round jumping ahead of the extractor is a common problem with a 1911. Get some different mags.

[osteodoc08]

Odd failure, thats for sure.

Your loading seems to be fine.

Was the magazine bought new or second hand?

Will it replicate the failure if only 6 are loaded?

Any other magazines that you can try out?

Pull off your slide and slip a dummy cartridge under the extractor. What happens? Does it stay put, fall out? Now roll it on the short axis. Does it stay put of fall out? Where is your brass landing when you shoot it?

Fill up a magazine (with dummy ammo) and turn it upside down, smack the bottom of the mag with the heel of your hand, any of the dummy rounds pop out? How about if there is just one?

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

It is the magazine. Try different ones. The problem magazine may be dirty, lips bent (it happens when they get dropped and such), somebody already pointed out that the spring might be in backwards, the spring may be weak, the spring end where it supports the follower may need a little bending to get it feed level. I tweak quite a few springs to get easy fixes. Try another magazine before you try anything else.

[Animal]

I've got 3 new Colt 7round mags and 3 new Wolff Extra Power springs ordered.

Osteodoc, I'll tinker with dummy rounds if I can get off of work at a decent time today.

I've checked mag springs to make sure everything was installed correctly and that there weren't any obvious defects. All looks well. Thanks guys!

[Boogieman]

Your mag is releasing the case ahead of the extractor. My Colt O.M. was doing that ,tried new mags. it didn't help, tuned the extractor,still no good. After many trials I found the recoil spring was too light. it was allowing the slide to hit the frame hard enough to jar the round forward in the mag. ahead of the extractor. replaced the spring, problem solved. stronger mag. springs might help , also a longer OAL if it will chamber might work. Most 1911s feed RN best about 1.265. Try them as long as they will work in the mag.

[Old School Big Bore]

Either mag lips releasing too soon or light recoil spring bouncing round around. As Osteodoc sez, get some dummies with the same boolit and work the slide in slow-mo, watching closely to see the entire cycle of function. You can make a mag lip tweaker out of an old screwdriver, just saw it off, cut a slot in the tip with a hacksaw, deburr it and voila, you can narrow or widen your mag lips.

[popper]

recoil spring was too light. it was allowing the slide to hit the frame hard enough to jar the round forward in the mag. ahead of the extractor.
Timing.

[Larry Gibson]

Scharfschuetzer is correct.

Magazine is releasing the last round to soon so the rim does not feed (controlled) up under the exractor as it comes out of the magazine. Seen it many times over the years. New magazine is needed or adjustment, if possible, of the magazine lips is all that is needed.

Larry Gibson

[Animal]

I am expecting to replace the recoil spring in the near future because I've heard the stock spring has a short life expectancy from man RIA 1911 owners.

Regarding over-all length, the 1 ogive boolit will not seat much further than 1.245, and it has to be completely concentric to achieve that depth. I can seat the typical ball cast boolit much longer, but I get better accuracy with the 1 ogive.

[Boogieman]

I am expecting to replace the recoil spring in the near future because I've heard the stock spring has a short life expectancy from man RIA 1911 owners.

Regarding over-all length, the 1 ogive boolit will not seat much further than 1.245, and it has to be completely concentric to achieve that depth. I can seat the typical ball cast boolit much longer, but I get better accuracy with the 1 ogive.
After replacing the weak recoil spring my Colt will feed SWC's down to 1.190 OAL. before it would jam the last round 90% of the time.

[jsizemore]

Remove firing pin and recoil spring. Load mag and insert. Let your thumbs be your recoil spring and view action through ejection port. Also check when empty that slide doesn't contact mag when going to battery.

[Scharfschuetze]

Good plan above, but be aware that your firing pin, through the pressure of the the firing pin spring holding the firing pin back, holds your firing pin stop in place. The firing pin stop then holds your extractor in place. Depending on how tightly your parts are fitted, you may have issues with the extractor and firing pin stop staying in place when you manually cycle the pistol without the firing pin and spring in place. The parts are all interconnected and without the support of the firing pin stop, the extractor can rotate as well as back out and thus obfuscate any results when inspecting the feeding cycle.

Perhaps making a few dummy rounds up sans primers and leaving all pistol parts in situ would help with your research when cycling the pistol in "slow motion."

[Char-Gar]

Folks continue to think they can improve on the perfect and make it divine. Of late, I have been reading here about polishing the bolt face, something I didn't know folks did and I am 50 years deep into 1911 pistols. When it saw the pic of the jam (before I read the text of the post), my first thought is that darn round jumped up from under the extractor. Maybe that is what happens when you polish bolt faces.

I have three 1911s and all feed and run fine without polished bolts faces. Maybe I am missing out of the greatest advance in 1911 technology to come down the pike, but I doubt it.

After multiple bad experiences, I quit letting "gunsmith" work on my guns. With a little study and effort, I can do it all myself and being basically lazy, I don't try and fix what isn't broken.

99% of the time, when a 1911 isn't reliable, the problem can be traced to the ammo or the magazine. Use ammo the pistols was designed to digest and a good magazine and the pistol will run, unless somebody has been trying to improve things and then all bets are off. Selling aftermarket parts for the 1911 and convincing folks they really need them has been a growth industry for quite some time now.

Here are two of my 1911 set up simple with sights you can see, long triggers, yummy grips and arched MS housings. Other than these few changes they are box stock. They run and are accurate. Simple and old school, they work!

[osteodoc08]

Those are purdy. I need to now wipe the drool off my keyboard.

Animal, try those new mags out that you ordered. Probably AOK after that. Many great minds here are lead to believe its the magazines. Also, your RD is at max loading per Alliants manual. No need to batter your gun. I'd reduce a few tenths of a grain.

Dont polish anything. You will gain nothing based upon your failure.

Report back.

[Char-Gar]

BTW...I use those same Metalform 7 rn mags with no problems. I like em!

[Animal]

Those are purdy. I need to now wipe the drool off my keyboard.

Animal, try those new mags out that you ordered. Probably AOK after that. Many great minds here are lead to believe its the magazines. Also, your RD is at max loading per Alliants manual. No need to batter your gun. I'd reduce a few tenths of a grain.

Dont polish anything. You will gain nothing based upon your failure.

Report back.

The Red Dot is at max for Alliants data and 2/10s under Lymans max (based on comparing my case capacity with the lyman 452374 which this load is largely based on). Once I can identify the cause of failure and fix it (I'm playing the waiting game now) I will probably not shoot this load very often. With this boolit/powder combination, 5.1 gr is very accurate and still easy to shoot. 5.1gr stood out to be the most accurate load between the min and max with Lymans data by a good size margin.

I agree. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what to polish and what to file, or to know when enough is enough. I am knowledgeable enough to read about it and understand it, but practical application is still far from my grasp without experienced supervision.

[Animal]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131119431230?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

My new magazines showed up today. Here is the Ebay link for them. You'll see them if you scroll down far enough. I am a little concerned because I did not see Colts brand anywhere on the magazines and there was no labeling on the packaging.

Further more, I had to file the notch in the mags body to get the mag to seat in the magwell securely. They now seem to fit very snug.

The baseplate on one of the 3 mags broke off as well. This isn't a big deal because I'll be able to weld it back stronger than it was before.

Is this normal for Colt magazines? Or did I get ripped off?

[462]

Since the Colt logo is missing, seems you got someone's (Chinese?) knock-offs.

[tomme boy]

If the horse is not on there it is a knock off

[Tar Heel]

Magazine.

[Animal]

Thats what I was afraid of.

[Char-Gar]

The ad did not say the mags were made by Colt.

[osteodoc08]

The ad did not say the mags were made by Colt.

Underneath item specifics it says Brand: Colt.

Damn theifs.

[Animal]

Yeah, I got taken. No big deal just live and learn. Fortunatly for me I just finished doing a superior weld to all 3 base plates. I've got my extra power springs in them and they seem to chamber much smoother than my Wilson Combats, ACT, and Metalform mags. They might be good knockoffs, we shall see.

No worries, I did the smart thing this time. I went on the Colt website, found the part number and ordered 4 Colt magazines. They should be original Colt mags.

[DougGuy]

I made dummy rounds with holes in the brass and super glued the boolits through those holes so they wouldn't move and change loa. I would attribute that particular ftf on the magazine. Timing is everything with feed lips, sounds like your magazine releases the rim early and inertia pushes it up before the extractor engages the groove.

[Animal]

http://grabagun.com/colt-magazine-1911govt-45acp-7rd-bl.html

Okay, this is what I ordered this time. If this ain't Colt, I need some serious training on ordering Colt products online.

[Boogieman]

Yeah, I got taken. No big deal just live and learn. Fortunatly for me I just finished doing a superior weld to all 3 base plates. I've got my extra power springs in them and they seem to chamber much smoother than my Wilson Combats, ACT, and Metalform mags. They might be good knockoffs, we shall see.

No worries, I did the smart thing this time. I went on the Colt website, found the part number and ordered 4 Colt magazines. They should be original Colt mags.
If your having trouble Wilson's mags. call their service dept.
they are great people & will work with you. I would order a new recoil spring your RD load is top end & RA springs are not noted for long life.

[John Boy]

A friend just bought 5 Wilson Combat magazines for his RIA 1911. I loaded 2 of the new magazines with 7 rounds loaded with H&G-68's for him. Manually cycled all the rounds and no extraction failures

[Boogieman]

A friend just bought 5 Wilson Combat magazines for his RIA 1911. I loaded 2 of the new magazines with 7 rounds loaded with H&G-68's for him. Manually cycled all the rounds and no extraction failures
I live in Wilson country, 80mi. to shop. the 1911 experts around here say "If it won't feed with a Wilson mag. you have gun or amo. problems" I have to agree. Not to offend Animal
but He bought mags. off E-bay @ $15.00 Wilson's standard service mag. sells on their site for $ 19.95 & if they fall apart Wilson will replace them. E-bay gun parts are a " Pig-in- Polk" thing.

[Animal]

I already have Wilson Mags

[DougGuy]

I had my best results with Meggar and Metalform.

[Boogieman]

&&
I made dummy rounds with holes in the brass and super glued the boolits through those holes so they wouldn't move and change loa. I would attribute that particular ftf on the magazine. Timing is everything with feed lips, sounds like your magazine releases the rim early and inertia pushes it up before the extractor engages the groove.
dummy rounds can be a help diagnosing feeding problems but hand cycling doesn't produce the same forces as live firing. The gun is moving, the side is moving at a different speed & changing directions & the hand holding is moving too. I've had rounds that would hand cycle but not live fire & vise- versa. Timing is the problem but it's a balance of spring rates ,mag. ,recoil, & hammer springs, Boolit weight & powder burn rate also figure to the picture

[Animal]

Ok, quick update.

I used my 3 counterfit Colt magazines today. I had a short session of 21 rounds. With Wolff Extra Power springs installed in the mags, I had zero feeding/extraction failures. Great day! This confirmed my confidence in the RIA 1911 firearm and my handloads.

However, the slide didn't want to lock back on the last round. I'm not worried about that, I don't care about that. I gained what I hoped for. I should have 4 authentic Colt magazines arrive in the mail some time in the next 2 weeks. I'm confident that those will feed, extract and lock the slide back properly because I've spent a great deal of time examining the feed lips and followers and comparing them to what I'm able to see in pictures of the authentic Colt mag. Thanks for the help folks.

P.S. While I was at the range I took the opportunity to sight in my AK variant with my new Tritium night sights. They are so much easier to see. During the day they are just as visible as Glocks 3 dot sight, and during the night they are lit just right.

[jsizemore]

I should have asked this at the start. How many rounds thru the gun?

[Animal]

My 4 Cold 7rounders came in the mail today. So far I've noticed that these are the only mags I have that drop from the magwell properly. My WC, ACT, Metalform and other fake Colt mags don't seem to drop properly and consistently. All 4 of these colts do. Looking forward to some range time now.

[Bazoo]

The magazine you use should have the little dimple on the follower. That is to prevent the last round from moving forward out of the magazine during recoil. A weak magazine spring will cause problems here, but is not necessarily the cause. A weak recoil spring can also cause the gun to cycle too quickly and cause this malfunction. Also. Having the ejector properly shaped so that the bottom edge is like a funnel of sorts to guide the edge of the round is a must.

[smilin jack]

Happy as a clam, and glad Animal got the piece working.

My Taurus stainless P1911 feeds/shoots/works great with cast/J-word using most any magazine. An AWOL bag full of GI mags was gifted to me, so glad not to have any feed issues.
Solo 1000, Green Dot, 700X all work great.
Two of my friends tried my 45ACP loads with 700X, CCI 300, Lee cast 230gr TC and had a few not feed out of a box at the local range. The slugs were seated to the tapered cone and just fit in the magazines. Don't remember the OAL but it's written in the book.
Dave