What do I need to know about Small Pistol Primer .45 ACP brass?

[C. Latch]

Right now it seems that SPPs are somewhat more available at somewhat better prices than LPPs.

I'm thinking of boosting my supply of SPPs and grabbing some SPP-pocket .45ACP brass. Before I do that, I'm curious as to what, if any, differences I'll see between SPP and LPP.

The hangup here is that I know that small primers are harder to handle than large primers; I'd almost rather pay that extra $0.005 per shot for a primer that was easier to handle in my priming tool. Anyway, I'd like to know what the cost is in terms of ballistics before I make a decision here.

[prs]

If you load progressively, then use either one or the other; NOT both.

Consider availability of brass of your choice.

prs

[chsparkman]

I load both types and have found no differences in performance. I just use whichever I can find.

[Outpost75]

I sold all my LPP .45 ACP brass and now load only SPP, so that I could standardize on only one size of pistol primer.

I cannot tell any difference in the performance of the loads and it makes life easier.

[Jupiter7]

Zero difference until one sneaks into your LPP brass and you don't notice it til your trying to seat a new primer. I keep about 500 SPP brass, helped when the recent shortage started, loaded SPP for a few months, saving my LPP for 45colt.

[C. Latch]

Thanks, folks. That tells me what I needed to know.

[philthephlier]

There are reported cases of failure to ignite powder. Federal had to develop a special small pistol primer to produce reliable ignition in the 45ACP case. Also they are not making that primer available for commercial sale. At least that was the case. I have loaded a few thousand rounds for myself and a friend. I never had an issue and always had good ignition with their standard SPP. My friend had about 3 failures to ignite in about 300 rounds. I took back all of his loads and fired them without incident in my 1911. I have read posts from shooters who discard any they find. I believe Blazer is now selling 45ACP ammo with SPP's.

[C. Latch]

There are reported cases of failure to ignite powder. Federal had to develop a special small pistol primer to produce reliable ignition in the 45ACP case. Also they are not making that primer available for commercial sale. At least that was the case. I have loaded a few thousand rounds for myself and a friend. I never had an issue and always had good ignition with their standard SPP. My friend had about 3 failures to ignite in about 300 rounds. I took back all of his loads and fired them without incident in my 1911. I have read posts from shooters who discard any they find. I believe Blazer is now selling 45ACP ammo with SPP's.

I've seen blazer, federal, and Winchester brass with small pockets.

They're rare in the brass I've seen, so I use them to make dummy rounds.

Still contemplating what to do here. I really do not enjoy handling small primers.

[Deep Six]

I just loaded and shot 100 of them the other day. I used blazer and federal cases, CCI 500 primers, and a charge of 5.1 gr Red Dot under the Lee 230 RN boolit. They all shot excellently. I image ignition failure could be an issue if you were trying to make +P loads with a slower ball powder (like AA #7 maybe?), but it certainly wasn't an issue with big flaky Red Dot.

[scattershot]

I have noticed no difference,but I keep them separated from theLPP cases, and use them in my 45ACP revolvers.

[BCRider]

I've been saving them for a while and finally loaded about 300 of them a while back. I'm about half way through that batch and so far they've all shot just fine from my two 1911's and my S&W 1917. CCI SPP in my case with Tightgroup powder.

I'm not so proud that I don't tell the other LPP snobs to "toss it here then" when they find a SPP case and start going all editorial.... :D

[rintinglen]

I discovered the SPP brass when I had a primer explode as I was loading 45 ACP for the first time in 7 years, stung my thumb and nearly soiled my shorts. I discard all I find these days to prevent a recurrence of that event, but in limited testing, I found no significant difference either in accuracy or reliability. Either will work, but I prefer not to run the risk.

[44man]

We found the SP was more accurate in the ACP revolver because the LP would move a boolit out of the brass too soon. It was just a shade better in the 1911, not enough to worry about.
Both work but we cut groups more then half in the revolver with the SP.

[Wayne Dobbs]

What loads did you use in the revolver that benefited from the SPP, 44man?

[44MAG#1]

I like the small primer brass. I wish I had 5-600 rounds of it.
Never had a failure to fire with it.
Either in my JM 45 Auto revolver or my semi-autos.

[dragon813gt]

I have both. I had planned on getting rid of LPP brass. It's the only round I load that uses one. Having it on hand allowed me to shoot just as much 45 while saving the SPP for 9mm and 357. I just received a few thousand new Starline cases so I will need to keep stocking LPP.

[snaketail]

The only issues I've found are - A. Gotta sort your brass carefully. B. We're still finding small primers hard to buy. C. No difference in accuracy.

[44man]

What loads did you use in the revolver that benefited from the SPP, 44man?
My friends gun, he does the loading but I can find out.
We were shooting his revolver when I figured the LP was too large so I bushed some brass for him, it worked so he bought 1000 cases for the SP.
He has a S&W revolver and a custom 1911 I built for him.

[TXGunNut]

Only problem is sorting with bifocals.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I'd be very happy to NEVER see another .45acp case with a small primer pocket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has nothing to do with one or the other being better, but totally about the fact that it is simply stupid to produce brass with both sizes.

It is as stupid as Hornady producing non-standard length brass for use with the gummy nose (FTX) bullets.

If there is really some advantage to the small pistol primers, then make it WELL know that all future brass with be produced in that size, do so and over time the supply of the normal brass will die and everyone will go on happily loading with small pistol primers.

Until such time that someone makes that decision, STOP PRODUCING THE ODD BALL BRASS!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[dragon813gt]

Federal(ATK) has stopped producing it. Their brands have been SPP for a few years now. There are a few other brands that have switched as well. It never needed a LPP to begin w/. It should have been changed years ago. Just like 357 Magnum was shortly after its introduction.

[Piedmont]

There was an early primer for the .45 ACP that was smaller. I am not saying it was a SPP, maybe it was a special size. I think they went to a larger primer because there was some variability in 1911s as far as where the firing pin struck the primer. The LPP was a larger target.

[ole 5 hole group]

I do know for a fact that the small primer 45ACP case will bring my progressive reloader to an abrupt stop every time it encounters one!

I'm also of the opinion that if a small pistol primer or a full length guide rod would have any advantage what-so-ever over a LPP or the recoil spring guide and spring plug in the 1911 then our Service Boys shooting on the marksmanship teams representing our country in international shooting events, who IMO are the best of the very best, would be using them right now - but they aren't and that says it all, at least, for me.

[JimA]

I started priming 45 auto off the press when I first started getting the spp cases. I now prime most cases off the press and find it eliminates most of the slowdowns in loading. I actually look at my brass as I'm doing it and find a few that should be pitched now and then.
I know, what's the purpose of a progressive press if you don't do it all at once. Well I don't have anything better to do with my time. :wink:

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I hear ya, JimA, and I even went to the point of selling my progressive.

I have plenty of time and after a lot of years handloading am just much more at home with the Single Stage process.

Saying nothing against those who use the progressives, but do know those odd ball primers sure throw a monkey wrench into the works!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Dragon813gt,

Just checked with a source within the Lewiston ATK (Speer/CCI) operation, and ATK has NOT completely made the switch to the small pistol primers in the .45acp. At least not in this local division.

There is still some target ammo and the Gold Dot which is still being produced with the Large Pistol Primers.

So, we are and will be saddled with the mix mash of the two primer sizes for at least awhile.

Quite awhile, YEARS, in reality as there are countless millions of the standard production cases out there and no clear demarcation on the horizon as to all manufactures making the switch.

I guess when you are producing Millions of rounds, there is probably a visible cost difference on the bottom line between the two sizes, but there is no advantage for the hand loader and at this point only problems.

YUK!!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[dragon813gt]

Ok, well I was wrong about ATK. I haven't seen any LPP brass from them in long time. But that would make sense it it's just the high end ammo that hasn't made the switch. I don't buy factory ammo but I sure do pick up cases at the range.

[osteodoc08]

When I get a SPP 45acp, it gets tossed in the junk brass box. It's easier for me to only keep and sort LPP 45acp brass. Makes life easier I guess. To each their own though. All my other stuff, for the most part, is with LPP. Makes it easy to order the primers. Speaking of, I need to order some.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Dragon813gt,

Not sure just how much interchange there is among the ATK divisions. but I suspect we have only seen the tip if the ice berg on this situation.

In fact, you may be 100% correct with the statement that Federal has totally gone over to the small primer for all .45acp production.

The info my source provided this morning Might (???) be specific to the local Speer/CCI production.

I didn't ask what the source knew about the situation with Federal production.

I just sent an "E" to a son to tell him that he needs to be aware of the two sizes, and to pick them both up when the opportunity comes by at some shooting location. I Figure to just stash the "odd" stuff back until there is enough to deal with.

Checked and the two kinds I recently became aware of while working brass are Federal and "Blazer". So, the Blazer being CCI, it is really clear that ATK is involved in the switch and possibly deeply with the intent of go totally that way.

Would seem strange in the long run to produce brass with both primer sizes.

Maybe it is a situation of waiting on some production until machinery is used until it is out of tolerance and time to be replaced.

I guess at our level it is a wait and see situation.

Have a really great day!

CDOC

[gtgeorge]

I have to add my dislike for SP primers showing up along the way. I do my best to toss them all in the box that gets converted to 400CB so they never gum up the works again. They still seem to find their way into the LPP cases every now and then to stop the reloading processes and cause a few choice words.

[dragon813gt]

You can blame the NonToxic ammo for the switch. It makes no sense financially to have machines producing both types. Only time will tell if the cease LPP production altogether. My money is that they will.

[Tar Heel]

I've loaded and fired about 2K of the SPP cases. No problems. Makes no nevermind to me which I load. We will eventually see the phase-out of the LPP 45 ACP brass over the next few years.