New to 45-70 and have a few questions

[SeanMP]

I just recently acquired a Buffalo Classic and I intend to exclusively use BP and CB. I have about about a week before my brass and an assortment of lead arrive so I'm looking for some sage advice on loading for the the classic.

Now for some specific questions

Is neck sizing necessary or is a slip fit usually better?

Does anyone field load the 45-70? I have a Pope style capper/decapper that I use for my 38-55 and I can get a base and pin for 45-70 so I'm assuming field loading is a possibility. ie decap, cap, fill, thumb the bullet in, load and shoot.

Does anyone have any experience muzzle feeding a 45-70? ie with a false muzzle and starter. I use this one on the 38-55 and it does give better groups over an assembled bullet. If so what are your particulars in terms of seating depth, powder charge, wad, compression

[johnson1942]

if you throat it for about 1/4 to 1/2 inch you dont have to do as harry pope did and muzzle load them. i throated my buffalo classic with a .459 throating reamer and that way i get more powder in the case and the bullet is just set in the case and goes up into the throat when chambered. yours is a 1/20 twist and the basic round nose 500 grain bullet shoots great in it. a 400 grain will shoot good also. if you use pure black you will have to wipe the throat out after every shot so you can chamber the next one. to tell the truth if you load your brass right and use the right bullet it will shoot any way you do it. i like my way as it takes out some neg. factors and harry pope is a good example to follow. i have several molds that have very long bearing surfaces on them and short round noses.none are tapered and come out at .459. i also cry treated my buffalo classic, shortened the barrel a little and put a nice perfect crown on it. its a shooter. also had smokeless muzzle loader inc. make another barrel for it, its a good multi purpose gun. have fun with it.

[oldracer]

I would say figure 4 to 6 months of shooting to get the exact load that both the rifle and you can shot well with. I would get a small note book and record EVERYTHING you do with the loads and generally shooting 10 to 20 shots will tell if it is good or not. I would try to have the weather be the same when trying but now days that is pretty hard. Some items to try are:

- Bullet weight and shape.
- Bullet size or not to size.
- Bullet alloy.
- Bullet lube and how it is applied.
- Wad type, I.E. card, milk carton, news print, lubed, etc.
- Powder load. When I started I used 60gn and went up to 70gn by 2gn increments.
- Bullet seating depth, I.E. touching the lands or off the lands and by how much.
- Case prep such as crimp the neck, no neck crimp, anneal the neck or no anneal, size the primer flash hole and deburr or leave alone, etc.
- Fire formed cases or to resize them.

[SeanMP]

if you throat it for about 1/4 to 1/2 inch you dont have to do as harry pope did and muzzle load them. i throated my buffalo classic with a .459 throating reamer and that way i get more powder in the case and the bullet is just set in the case and goes up into the throat when chambered. yours is a 1/20 twist and the basic round nose 500 grain bullet shoots great in it. a 400 grain will shoot good also. if you use pure black you will have to wipe the throat out after every shot so you can chamber the next one. to tell the truth if you load your brass right and use the right bullet it will shoot any way you do it. i like my way as it takes out some neg. factors and harry pope is a good example to follow. i have several molds that have very long bearing surfaces on them and short round noses.none are tapered and come out at .459. i also cry treated my buffalo classic, shortened the barrel a little and put a nice perfect crown on it. its a shooter. also had smokeless muzzle loader inc. make another barrel for it, its a good multi purpose gun. have fun with it.

It's my understanding that muzzle starting the bullet has two advantages that were used to good effect. 1) the fins end up around the nose rather than the critical base area. 2) The bullet scrapes down the grooves on every loading so the barrel is very consistently fouled.



I would say figure 4 to 6 months of shooting to get the exact load that both the rifle and you can shot well with. I would get a small note book and record EVERYTHING you do with the loads and generally shooting 10 to 20 shots will tell if it is good or not. I would try to have the weather be the same when trying but now days that is pretty hard. Some items to try are:

- Bullet weight and shape.
- Bullet size or not to size.
- Bullet alloy.
- Bullet lube and how it is applied.
- Wad type, I.E. card, milk carton, news print, lubed, etc.
- Powder load. When I started I used 60gn and went up to 70gn by 2gn increments.
- Bullet seating depth, I.E. touching the lands or off the lands and by how much.
- Case prep such as crimp the neck, no neck crimp, anneal the neck or no anneal, size the primer flash hole and deburr or leave alone, etc.
- Fire formed cases or to resize them.

4 to 6 months? Is that it? I was hoping for years:grin:
I spend about a year testing new valve or barrel designs in the custom big bore air rifles I build before I even release the testers to a few key people. I'm no stranger to tediously methodical testing. Also I've been shooting the holy black for 30 years...I'm just new to 45-70

So has anyone field loaded this cartridge? Using one indexed casing for a days shooting?

[bigted]

cant see any reason why not. I do the same with many cases ... just have em loaded before hand is all. the loading remains the same.

I would suggest ... getting a Lyman 311 loading tool for 45-70 and then you could load wherever you choose. you could also ... using the 311 ... load card over powder wads or whatever method you choose to do. nothing hindering you from using this method in the library if you wanted to I recon.

as to the experimenting with your 45-70 ... I have been playin with various rifles so chambered for a very long time ... years and years ... and ill say that I don't get tired of the endless opportunity's for loading procedures in this fun old cartridge. to wit ... paperpatching with black powder ... paperpatching with smokeless powder ... grease groove smokeless ... grease groove blackpowder ... muzzle loading over blackpowder ... muzzleloading over blackpowder ... breech seating ... lite loads ... extra heavy loads ... on and on and on ... there seems like no end to this fun and I remain thankful for every bit of it. then when you are getting close to getting everything down it seems like old age sets in and the eyes go south so there are things to adjust for that ... then there is the shooting positions ... never ends and this is the why of having so much fun with these old time shooters ... at least the old time chambers.

[SeanMP]

I would suggest ... getting a Lyman 311 loading tool for 45-70 and then you could load wherever you choose. you could also ... using the 311 ... load card over powder wads or whatever method you choose to do. nothing hindering you from using this method in the library if you wanted to I recon.

... muzzleloading over blackpowder ... breech seating ... lite loads ... extra heavy loads ... on and on and on ... there seems like no end to this fun and I remain thankful for every bit of it. then when you are getting close to getting everything down it seems like old age sets in and the eyes go south so there are things to adjust for that ... then there is the shooting positions ... never ends and this is the why of having so much fun with these old time shooters ... at least the old time chambers.

Aha...now we're getting somewhere!

Yes I definitely plan on getting the Lyman tool.

When you experimented with breech seating-muzzle load over black what sort of results did you get?

When I do the same the 38-55 I have a simple punch on a hand pommel that compresses the wad onto the powder to the correct depth. Of course then the bullet is brought down until the rod hits the stop. Which is set at the point where the bullet will kiss the wad when the cartridge is inserted.

I know the cartridge holder and hand pommel were hand made....did you use a similar technique on the 45-70?

[Don McDowell]

So has anyone field loaded this cartridge? Using one indexed casing for a days shooting?

I have not used a single indexed case, but I do carry my Lee hand press, a set of dies, priming tool, and all the fixins for what ever cartridges the rifles we take to the Quigley are chambered for. That way we don't have to worry about running short of ammunition prior to the match , and it does allow for some testing of different bullets etc.

[oldracer]

My estimate for the time was based on my experience and from info I gleaned from this and a few other boards. I was lucky when I got my first 45-70 in that the builder had all his information available and we also have a couple pretty fair BPCR shooters in the San Diego area. So many of the items that some say to try, I did not since they seemed to be a bump in the road. Later on I would try something just as a new idea and generally they made things worse. I was also shooting twice a week at about 20 to 40 rounds each range visit so many things were quickly passed on. Here is what I found that worked in both my original Rolling Block and my Sharps: 68gn of FFG compressed so the bullet is 0.002 off the lands with a milk carton wad to compress using a home made compression die and with a newsprint wad on top of the milk carton wad. I used fire formed cases, flash holes sized and inside trimmed and with a very slight bell and the mouth edge trued each time and the bullet sized to 0.459. I used Doug Knoell's bullet lube applied in a pan and Winchester primers hand seated. When I had a good day I could put 5 shots in one hole at 100 yards and 2 inch groups at 300 yards but there were many days I could barely hit the backer?! So it comes down to the shooter and how they feel at any particular time and the guy that bought my cartridge guns started with the same loads I use and yet has been able to get less than 2 inch groups at 100 yards, so I think it comes down to what you can do best with. Oh yeah, I moved into "slug guns" and muzzle loaders as they are an even bigger challenge!

[bigted]

might be a misunderstanding ... there are many of these disciplines that I have never tried. I merely mentioned that any of these options are realistic and that a single case ... indexed ... would suffice for a day long shooting with the Lyman 310 tool and dies ... reloading as you go ... also the many different options are fully obtainable with this fun shooter.

[SeanMP]

No worries or misunderstandings here.
I have ordered the Lyman 310 tool and with that I should be able to set myself up right on my range bench and pursue any fun or folly as it comes.

Looking over the 310 tool it seems I will just have to machine up an extra die for the compression plug. I may as well as this will give me the option of making compression plugs matched to the bullet base....just for fun

[Texantothecore]

I have a BC and it is endlessly entertaining. Have fun!