I am now the owner of a 1903 Springfield

[Jailer]

Well the Warden was out grocery shopping today and went to lunch with her father. As they were talking over lunch the conversation moved to his guns and he asked if there were any I would like. I knew he had this old 1903 so I after a few quick texts she tells me shes coming home with it today.

Apparently this belonged to my wifes great uncle and was his service rifle he brought back from WWII. FIL said he was a Marine sniper and he used to tell him that this was the gun he killed Japs with. Don't know if any of that is true or not but the fact that it was his rifle apparently is true.

The rifle is in great shape with only a couple of small spots of rust on it. The bore is full of dust so I'll have to get that cleaned out to assess condition. Muzzle look good and it's a 4 groove barrel. As best I can tell from a little on line searching by the looks of it, it's an early model. The stock doesn't seem to match any of the photo's I found so I'm sure it's been replaced at some point in it's life. Stock has a few handling marks and is cracked near the butt plate but otherwise in great condition.

Can anyone shed some light on this and maybe tell me what I have from a few pictures?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfield_zps1187f4cc.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Jailer/media/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfield_zps1187f4cc.jpg.html)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldserial_zps80072a46.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Jailer/media/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldserial_zps80072a46.jpg.html)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldrboltclosed_zps2c2c60b7.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Jailer/media/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldrboltclosed_zps2c2c60b7.jpg.html)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldboltcloseup_zpsf0331347.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Jailer/media/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldboltcloseup_zpsf0331347.jpg.html)
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldstock_zps9d1eb202.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Jailer/media/Gun%20stuff/1903Springfieldstock_zps9d1eb202.jpg.html)

She also came home with this too. Apparently her father felt like giving things away today.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b180/Jailer/Gun%20stuff/phonograph_zps1a166e52.jpg (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Jailer/media/Gun%20stuff/phonograph_zps1a166e52.jpg.html)

[Uncle R.]

Sorry but that's not an 03 Springfield and I doubt it's anything that a US marine sniper would have used. It looks like a Carcano to me. The good part is it's in incredible condition. I've never seen one that nice before.
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Uncle R.

[Jailer]

I just looked at some pictures and you're right. Hmmm, maybe he brought it home with him?

Shows you how much I know about old guns. :oops:

[Jailer]

Just found this after a little searching. Looks like I'm the proud owner of a type I Carcano.

http://members.shaw.ca/nambuworld/typeipix.htm

[WILCO]

Shows you how much I know about old guns. :oops:

I know a fella that went trout fishing. Was all excited that he caught three or four.
Sure wish I could've been there when he learned that they were carp.
Don't beat yourself up about this Jailer. Be glad that you were given a milsurp!
Have fun and keep us posted.

[Uncle R.]

Just found this after a little searching. Looks like I'm the proud owner of a type I Carcano.

http://members.shaw.ca/nambuworld/typeipix.htm

I am no expert on Japanese milsurps but - if that proves to be a "Jap Carcano" well - what a cool thing to have! Especially if it IS a bring-back war trophy from your wife's family. A little more research might be in order but it may turn out be to be a fine family heirloom indeed.
Good Luck!
<
Uncle R.

[roverboy]

Yeah, you've got a Carcano made for the Japs in 6.5x50. Also the "crack" may not really be a crack. The Japs liked to make a dovetail, so that 2 pieces of wood could be put together to make a stock. A lot of the typical Jap rifles will sometimes separate a little and look cracked. Its a good looking rifle though.

[kywoodwrkr]

Not sure how many Type I's there are, especially in that condition, but I'd think a whole lot less than 03's.
I let a friend talk me out of one I had back in early 70's.
He'd served at the tip of the Aleutians waiting for a Japanese attack which never came.
You've got one very nice weapon there!
And they are strong.
Do some some severe price checking before you part with it, if you ever do!
I've only had hands on maybe three of them in my life time.

[CastingFool]

I didn't think that the military would allow him to keep his service rifle. A war pick up, probably, especially during WWII. Good deal anyway, and it does look in pretty good shape.

[MtGun44]

LOL, stories sure get garbled. Jap caliber Italian Carcano, certainly no 1903 Springfield.

Looks to be in very nice condition, could be a nice shooter.

Bill

[Jailer]

Not sure how many Type I's there are, especially in that condition, but I'd think a whole lot less than 03's.
I let a friend talk me out of one I had back in early 70's.
He'd served at the tip of the Aleutians waiting for a Japanese attack which never came.
You've got one very nice weapon there!
And they are strong.
Do some some severe price checking before you part with it, if you ever do!
I've only had hands on maybe three of them in my life time.

It is a two piece stock. The crack is on the other side and I didn't get a picture of it.

Yeah I don't know jack about old mil surplus rifles. I just took the FIL on his word that it was what it was. Glad I've got this place to set me straight.

[Huffmanite]

Own a Type I Italian made Japanese rifle myself and that is what you have.....a WWII bringback. Its a
Carcano barreled action, chambered in the the 6.5x50 Jap cartridge in a Japanese made rifle stock. Italy sent around 60,000 of these rifles to Japan around time Japan joined with Italy and Germany to form their Axis alliance. Japanese didn't particularly like them and were not issued to their front line troops. Some went to their navy and as I recall, a lot were never issued.

As mentioned earlier, that appears to be a very nice condition Type I and while I do not know its value, I can safely agree with another reply that its dollar value is on the higher side for a surplus military rifle.

[Char-Gar]

Yep that is a Jap Type I (Italy). The Jap navy needed rifles for it's "Marines" who were little more that naval base guards and the Jap arsenals were controlled by the army who didn't care much for the navy. The Jap navy contracted with Italy to furnish rifles in the 6.5 Jap caliber. They were built on Carcano actions by several different manufactures with Mauser/Arisaka bottom metals and stocks that mimicked the Jap 38. They were loaded on Italian ships that meet with Jap cargo subs mid-ocean where they were transferred.

Once in Japan most remained in crates on the docks as even the Jap naval officers felt non-Japan products just had to be inferior. Very few of these rifles were issues and were there for the taking when the US Navy sailed into Yokahama, and many were brought back by sailors and Marines. They are often seen in very good condition.

The story about it being a US Marine's sniper rifle used to kill Japs is a good story but total BS.

The truth is these are better made rifles than the Jap made rifles and are quite accurate for military rifles.

The stocks are either beech or birch, I don't remember which. The butt stock is two pieces with dovetails held together with glue. It is common to see gaps at the joint with the passage of time. Remove the butt plate and you can see the dovetail quite clearly on the end of the stock.

An unmessed with Jap Type I in good condition like yours will be $600 to $650 on todays market.

Enjoy.....I have one.

[Dutch4122]

Passed one of these up at the Birch Run Gun Show last year and I've been kicking myself ever since.

Nice find!!!!!:drinks:

[Char-Gar]

Here is a pic of my Type I. The barrel has been chopped as well as the stock to make it a Bubba sporter. I paid a whole $75.00 for it two years ago. When I got it, the stock was in sad shape with a mega gap at the dovetail joint. Some stock repair work turned it into a fine little rifle. In spite of it's butchery, it is a well balanced and accurate rifle.

[MTtimberline]

I didn't think that the military would allow him to keep his service rifle. A war pick up, probably, especially during WWII. Good deal anyway, and it does look in pretty good shape.
This is what I was thinking too. Thought they could keep everything other than USGI. I know of one "lost" 1911 that made it back in pieces and later reassembled however.

[WILCO]

LOL, stories sure get garbled.



The story about it being a US Marine's sniper rifle used to kill Japs is a good story but total BS.

Bill is right. Stories get garbled. BS or not, it's the heirloom that's priceless.
Do your best to enjoy it and welcome to the world of Milsurps!!

[garandsrus]

Maybe your FIL still has an 03 and just pulled out the wrong one.....

[Jailer]

I doubt it. He doesn't hunt anymore and is down to just a couple guns. This was the nicest one in his cabinet when he was showing me them a couple years ago.

[roverboy]

That's a good story TNsailorman. I like to hear stories like that.

[MTtimberline]

Sitting and listening to Grandpa's war stories are some of my most treasured memories. Especially since he didn't tell many other people.

[kywoodwrkr]

I didn't think that the military would allow him to keep his service rifle. A war pick up, probably, especially during WWII. Good deal anyway, and it does look in pretty good shape.
If my Uncle was still living I'd show him your comment.
He'd get a kick out of it I'm sure.
He sent 10 schmeissers home from the European Theater. Post office intercepted 9 of them.
Also a Sten gun which an English officer presented to him, his 45 side arm, his M1A1 and a couple other pistols.
Worse part of all this, he sold his M1A1 at a gun show in Ohio, said he didn't want me paying so much($300) for it.
For anyone questioning this, he wrote an after war book, ET and Me, the original, and only, draft resides at the Kentucky War Museum.
Oh, another thing he 'procured' and brought back was a complete set of engineering drawings for an automobile.
His employer before the war, Ford, said the the car would never work.
The drawings detailed a front wheel drive vehicle.
I personally never discount any 'tale' a veteran tells me. Things were a little bit, read very, crazy during those years.
Thanks.

[fatnhappy]

If my Uncle was still living I'd show him your comment.
He'd get a kick out of it I'm sure.
He sent 10 schmeissers home from the European Theater. Post office intercepted 9 of them.
Also a Sten gun which an English officer presented to him, his 45 side arm, his M1A1 and a couple other pistols.
Worse part of all this, he sold his M1A1 at a gun show in Ohio, said he didn't want me paying so much($300) for it.
For anyone questioning this, he wrote an after war book, ET and Me, the original, and only, draft resides at the Kentucky War Museum.
Oh, another thing he 'procured' and brought back was a complete set of engineering drawings for an automobile.
His employer before the war, Ford, said the the car would never work.
The drawings detailed a front wheel drive vehicle.
I personally never discount any 'tale' a veteran tells me. Things were a little bit, read very, crazy during those years.
Thanks.

I thought it funny too. It's a long standing Army regulation that retiring officers may purchase their arms at cost from .gov provided of course they're compliant with federal law. By that method I currently have my Uncle's garand. Battlefield pickups are another thing all together.

[43PU]

I'm an avid collector of military surplus and I've had rifles in mags. You would be surprised at what got sent home American or not. I have a rock-ola M1 that was sent home in a bible box labels bibles, I have an arisaka that has a board nailed to it with this guys address and just shipped through the mail. A Nazi marked hi power I have with capture papers calls it a .38 special. Back then they didn't really care what got shipped home for a carton of cigeretts or a case of whiskey you could send anything home