Hungarian 8x56R

[inspector_17]

Young guy I work with went to a gun show last Sat and got himself a Hungarian 8x56R bolt action. He researched the weapon after he got it home. From the proof marks on it, it was made 1938 and has a Nazi stamp on it. From the pics he showed me it appears to be in good shape. The gentleman he purchased it from also included a box of new ammo and he has test fired it. He asked me if I could reload the brass for him. (his admitted addiction is RC cars and trucks, where most of his paycheck goes. single no wife kids or major bills) I told him I would be glad to. Gave him some info to research about reloading dies, brass and other equip he would need to supply me with. Now he is asking if I could Cast bullets for him! Told him to keep researching and pickup what he needed. May have gotten him a new hobby! I am researching the 8x56R myself to see if I can find load data to try both J words and cast. I haven't seen the rifle or ammo myself so:

First question I have is, is there a difference between a 8x56R Mannlicher and a 8x56R? I have seen both terms is searching for load data.
Second question: Does anybody have that data in one of their manuals? All I have is the Lee.

I will post more as I think of it. Thanks ahead of time for everybody's assistance.

[Doc_Stihl]

The Lee die set comes with some load data. I don't have it in front of me. Lee also makes a .329 mold. May or may not be big enough for your throat/bore.

If you go to google and search for "8x56r castboolits" and click on the more results you'll get a bunch of info. I can't get the search engine here to work well for me.

I know that I was loading the lee boolit over unique with excellent results. In the spring I am going to try getting into paper patching for it.

[Janoosh]

Two issues not mentioned yet:
You will need a clip,
watch the extractor.
I'm guessing you're talking about the straight pull model 95.
The internal barrel measurements will be amusing.

[Bjornb]

I just got one of these in last week. Same rifle, 1938. Very clean. I ordered the Lee dies and .329 mould. The barrel slugs at .315/.333. I also ordered up some 7.62x54R cases from Orisolo, makes Steyr cases that are 2 mm short. Shouldn't be a problem since it's a rimmed case. Looking forward to playing with a new toy!

[roverboy]

I've debated on ordering one of these for a long time. They're nice looking rifles. I hear they kick a lot too. Poor shoulder.

[zaphod042]

I've got one and it's fun to shoot with cast loads - I use red-dot myself.

[Bjornb]

I will only be shooting mild loads with cast boolits. 16 grs. 2400 should give about 1500 fps or so.

[Dschuttig]

There is no difference between 8x56r mannlicher and 8x56r. Some will designate it as 8x56RS mannlicher, the "S" just means that it has spitzer type bullets, which I believe all military ammo did, as this was one of the points of the conversion from 8x50r. I should point out that there is an old cartridge called 8x56 mannlicher that is a rimless round that resembles 8x57 mauser. The 8x56r should, at quick look, appear like a 45-70 necked down to 8mm.
For cast, you will really need to slug your bore. I have 7 of these rifles, of different manufacture and age, some in 8x50r still, and mine run between a tight .3285 and .332. If you have a barrel on the tight side, the lee 8x56r mold is fine. If it's bigger you will need to use the 338 lee mold, or have one made.
I have been running the group buy for the frankenstien mold, but miha never gets back to us, so I have no idea if it will ever happen.

2400 is a great powder to start with, 16 grs is my usual starting load.

Your gun was not made in 1938. No new recievers were produced after WWI. It was probably a cut down rifle that had a damaged or shot out barrel that was re-barreled in 1938. Look at the bottom of the stock and see if it has the old lower sling swivel area filled in. Many of the later barreled guns tend to have pretty nice bores on them. I have one that has a like new barrel from the 30's.

[inspector_17]

Thanks everybody, got a lot more info to pass on and more homework for him. And he thought he was out of school! LOL

[Wayne Smith]

I believe that NOE has the ability to make the Frankenstein mold. I would check with him, anyway.

[UBER7MM]

....He asked me if I could reload the brass for him. ....Now he is asking if I could Cast bullets for him! ....May have gotten him a new hobby!
.
Inspector,
.
Your co-worker doesn't have a new hobby. You've increased yours.
.
Enjoy,

[ambergrifleman]

Everyone Needs One !

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Good job Inspector on encouraging a young man into an excursion into the world of military surplus firearms. As we grow old and pass on, we need young men to take our place. I hope you've provided him with the cast boolits forum website.

[MtGun44]

Bolt action or straight pull? I have a Steyr M95 straight pull in that caliber,
know of no bolt action in that one, but I sure as heck am still learning.

Bill

[Wayne Smith]

Well, Bill, technically it is a bolt action. Just not a turn bolt.

[rmatchell]

I picked one of these up a few weeks ago and hope to get loading for it later this summer. I wondered how they would do with such a short neck, but time will tell.

[inspector_17]

Update: My friend finally has gotten everything he needs to reload. He wants to use J words, so he went to the LGS and asked which ones he needed to purchase. They gave him 323, the load data that came with the Lee dies calls for 329. Do I need to worry about this?

[jugulater]

Yes, surely accuracy will suffer terribly. safety wise theres no issue, but firing a .323 bullet down a .330+ barrel isn't the way to get any sort of accuracy.

Using such a undersized bullet may cause keyholeing.

my M95/30 has a .335 groove and a .320 bore, so a .323 bullet will barely engrave the rifling in my gun.

[Scharfschuetze]

.329" is the usually quoted bullet diameter for the 8X56R, but bore wear and tolerances will add some confusion to that. Note the post above. I shoot the Privi .329" FMJ bullets in my 1895 rifle with good accuracy. I believe I ordered them from Graf and Sons.

I'll bet your friend just said 8mm at the LGS and was given what is generally considered 8mm, the .323" caliber bullets.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Used by German cops in WW2 I have been led to believe. They called it the 'Ruck Zac!' for right now.

[inspector_17]

Thanks for the assist folks. When we get this taken care of I will update again.

[Silfield]

I shoot an 1886 8x 60R Steyr Kropatschek and went through a big learning curve when it came to figuring out how to load for it. My bore slugged out at 0.315" (8.001mm) and 0.332" for the lands. I tried 0.329" boolits from the Lee mould which came out looking great but the accuracy was hopeless.
I brought a NOE 340205 mold and size them down to 0.332" in a Lee push through sizing die that I opened up-wrecked the first sizing die by taking too much out!
The first outing produced this at 100yards,

144521

Not too shabby really considering I was having to aim at a non existent point of aim that was 2" to the right of the paper (need to drift the front sight over a bit)
11 grains of Unique seemed to give a good starting point for a bit of tweaking.
I could shoot these old Steyr's all day long.

Good luck on your quest.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Hornady sell ammo for them occasionally, but it is loaded by Privi Partisan I believe.

[jdr34]

I've been working with a Hungarian M95 Stutzen for a while, I'll share what I've learned so far. .

Single loading bullets, I lay single rounds on the follower and the bolt slides them right behind the extractor smoothly and chambered with ease.

The background on the rifle, It’s a Steyr, I think it’s a converted long rifle since it has the longer rear sight. The stock and metal are in very good shape, I spent a lot of time running patches to clean the copper fouling out of the barrel, and what I ended with was a barrel in very good shape. Appears very smooth with no pits.

Some common elements of the four cast bullet loads I shot are:


Bullet-cast Lee .329 8x56 mold, that measured .330” as cast, I did not size the bullets, they were lubed with Lee Liquid Alox, tumble lubed twice. Hornady 8mm gas checks were installed with a Lyman sizer. Hardness of the bullet was measured with a Lee tester that gave me a BHN of 14. My bullet alloy started as wheel weights and I added some lino type to it, I did this 10 years ago and I don’t remember what the proportions were. Bullets were weight sorted to within .1 grn for each 5 round group.
Powder was AA 5744, individually weighed out with an electronic scale.
Primer was CCI 200
Brass was PPU (Privi Partisan), still available on GRAFS.COM in 100 rnd bags.
Overall length 2.934”
Fired on a 50 yard range, off a benchrest with sand bag rests fore end and butt stock. Weather was 40 degrees, no wind and overcast. I used an F1 Shooting Chrony chronograph.


Individual loads and their results:


25.0 grns of powder, group size 1 3/4”, muzzle velocity 1597 fps.
26.0 grns of powder, group size 2.0”, muzzle velocity 1676 fps.
27.0 grns of powder, group size 1 5/8”, muzzle velocity 1743 fps.
28.0 grns of powder, group size 1 5/8”, muzzle velocity 1806 fps.


All four loads were within 1.5” of point of aim altho No 2 and No 4 went to the left about an inch of the point of aim.

While I shouldn't admit to this publicly, I obtained some Privi Partisan jacketed soft point 205 gr bullets and fired some GI equivalent loads that were 49.0 grains of VARGET and yeah, the recoil is noticeable enough that I want to go cast some more lead bullets. I shot these FMJ loads on a range that I couldn't set up my chrono and the distance to target was 50 yards groups with a 2.4"group. I also shot some reduced loads with 2400 as follows:
2400 14.0 grns 2.4" group
2400 16.0 grns 1.4" group
2400 18.0 grns 1.8" group
2400 20.0 grns 1.9" group

I hope this was beneficial.

Jim

[jugulater]

The LEE .329 boolit is generally regarded as too small for the majority of M95s. even if you have a perfect .316 bore and .329 groove you more than likely have a throat and chamber that will accept .338 boolits!

i am one of the unlucky few and have a gun with a grossly oversized barrel. i have a .320 bore and a .335 groove. and my chamber will gladly accept a loaded round with a .338 boolit. Surely the LEE .329 would do nothing for me, but obviously it's working for you.

very nice first post jdr34 looks like you've been lurking for a while.