40-65 dies and brass forming?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I recently acquired a beautiful CPA Stevens 44-1/2 from forum member Idaho Sharpshooter. One of the barrels is marked ".40-65." I just picked up a set of RCBS dies marked "40-65 Shiloh Sharps." Did I get the correct dies?

While we are on this subject could I get a few pointers on how to form 45-70 brass into 40-65? I know I need to size, trim, and anneal, but am not sure of the exact process or order of the steps.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/28/gutava7e.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/28/eduge9yp.jpg

[Gunlaker]

Those dies will work fine. I don't bother annealing but some do. You'll need to trim them a bit just a bit to get them to chamber as they will be too long. Since they will shrink maybe 0.010" after firing a couple of times I like to leave them a bit long.

My Shiloh has a tight chamber so I need to full length size initially, but you might be able to get away with partially sizing the cases. Basically you want to size/trim them as little as possible so that they just chamber. That way they won't end up too short after fireforming.

[boommer]

I do anneal first then run them thru a 40-65 from 45-70 forming die RCBS #58318 then full size them.The length you might not have to trim don't know how cpa cuts their chambers.

[John Boy]

Do not trim the cases until they have been fire formed to the chamber a couple of times.
Why? Brass work hardens and shortens the cases

[john hayslip]

I sold my 40-65 but when I was doing it I'd get 45-70 hulls without the cannelure, lube them with Lee case lube and run them in to the 40-65 sizing die (without annealing) and then have to trim them as they were too long at that point to chamber. I guess that says check at that point before loading a cartridge that won't chamber.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thanks for the tips and replies. I have 4lbs of 2fg Goex just waiting to be burned.

[kokomokid]

I would talk to the recent owner as the 40-65 could easily use .410 bullets and neck sizing if it was used in bpcr.

[Jon K]

Look on the underside of the barrel...Paul Shuttleworth stamps the groove diameter on the barrel.

Jon

[EDG]

The 40-65 can be more difficult to form than what you might expect.

Use new brass with out the cannelure
Use perfect brass with no dent or nicks on the upper half of the case.
Expand and case mouths that are dented or out of round so they round and will not notch when sized.

Use a very small amount of lube on the bras and do not size deeper than 1/2" at a pass.
You may be able to size more than this but start out shallow. Wipe the accumulated lube off between
passes so you do not crease a case.

There are many ways to size this brass. I have started with a 45-70 die and I have also started with a
.375 H&H die. The main thing is to not size to far without wiping the case off.

[smokeywolf]

I usually buy my 40-65 brass from Starline. When they're out, Midway usually has them at close to Starline's price. Also, the 40-65 brass is within a couple of bucks per 100 of the same price as 45-70 brass.

[Gunlaker]

EDG's tips are good. It's easy to ruin a case if you are not careful. As John Boy says, ideally you don't want to trim. In some chambers that not going to work. I had a look at my notes for this rifle last night. The chamber is 2.107" long so reformed brass is significantly too long. The brass shortens by 0.006" after fireforming so I full length size the brass ( necessary to get the diameter above the web reduced enough to chamber ). I trim to 2.107" + 0.006". The cases come out. Perfect 2.107" after shooting them twice, then they stay the same length.

Hopefully that is of use to you. Enjoy the new rifle.

Chris.

[wwmartin]

I ordered 300 Star Line 40-65 brass from Wideners Shooting Supply in Ky. last week it was the only place I could find any in stock. $30 for 50. I tried forming from 45-70 I made 3 for setup and quit until star line was found. They will be here Monday. WW

[kokomokid]

Better measure your chamber length before you invest in starline 40-65 brass. LB

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Well I made 10 cases without any trouble. I used a slight amount of BT's swaging lube and took it slow. I got 3-4 cases with minor lube dents at the base of the 40cal necks, but those should iron out fine after the first firing. They are slightly to long to chamber so I will need to kiss them with a trimer.

[marwin95]

My experience has shown that the Redding Trim-Series die for the 40-65 has been especially helpful in sizing 45-70 to 40-65 without brass loss/wastage. Which certainly wasn't so with other methods I tried. The resized 45-70 does fits the CPA chamber as is. My observation has shown that the Starline 40-65 brass fits the Shilo chamber properly and the resized 45-70/40-65 brass fits the slightly longer CPA chamber. I believe I read some where that Mr. Shuttlesworth cuts his chamber slightly longer for the use of the resized brass so I tested and mine and it is slightly longer than my Shilo chamber.
Also a thank you to Jon K as I was unaware of the stampings on the bottom of the CPA/Douglas barrel. I had not removed the forearm until after reading his comments. Learn something everyday.