ladle/dipper or Bottom pour

[moose0011]

Last night I was reading that casting with a ladle/dipper was more consistant than a bottom pour. Wasn't alot of light shed on why. Me being mainly a rifle shooter that is probably the way I will lean. Do others find this to be true that have done both bottom pour and ladle/dipper?

[Themoose]

0011,

I'm far from an expert, but I have been casting bullets for about 40 years and 99+% done with a ladle and pot...most of my casting has been done for larger than average projectiles for shotgun slugs and large muzzleloading bullets ranging from around 300-600 grains. I had a particular problem casting quality 45-70 Postells until I read a book by Paul Matthews... after reading it, I became a whole lot better... Basically he suggested that you use a ladle and pressure pour the bullets and have the lead at a high temperature...I tried briefly with a bottom pour and had less than fair results.. perhaps my melt was not hot enough... in truth, I got fed up pretty quick and abandoned it... I have used bottom pour with success on smaller pistol bullets around 200 grs.

Hope this helps,

TheMoose

[moose0011]

0011,

I read a book by Paul Matthews... after reading it, I became a whole lot better... Basically he suggested that you use a ladle and pressure pour the bullets and have the lead at a high temperature...I tried briefly with a bottom pour and had less than fair results.. perhaps my melt was not hot enough..

What book? he has many? and I have heard of that actually.

[r1kk1]

Wolfe publishing

Take care

r1kk1

[moose0011]

Wolfe publishing

Take care

r1kk1

Huh? I am not following?

[country gent]

I cast handgun bullets with a bottom pour years ago with good results and consistency. When I started casting the bigger softer BPCR bullets the consistency went down with the bottom pour on these big bullets 300-600 grns from 20-1 alloy. I opened a lyman ladles spout to .200 and started pressure casting with this alloy at a measured 750* and get much better results over the days session. I have since went to a RCBS ladle ( also opened up the spout) with a slightly larger capacity than the lyman. Its all in what you are comfortable doing and what you want to accomplish. Alot is prefrennce as either can ussually be made to work. The postel I cast has a finished wieght of around 530 grns and wants to be filled fast. My 457125 is 515 grns and also likes a faster fill rate. The 335 postel will cast pretty good either way but does a little better with the ladle and pressure. The 40 cal 400 snoover again wants it lead in big gulps and a little more over pour. Experiment and see what works for you with your equipment, let your eyes, mics and a scale determine what does best.

[Themoose]

Paul Matthews wrote a number of books...I had most and gave them to a nephew when he got into black powder cartridge shooting... I believe the one that will give you the best info is "Cast Bullets for The Black Powder Cartridge Rifle" , others to consider are "How-To's for Blackpowder Rifle" and "Black Powder, Pig Lead & Silhouettes".

TheMoose

[moose0011]

I haven't puchased any pot yet. at first I was going to get a bottom pour. most of my molds will be 300-730 gr.

country gent thank you for the tip on the ladle. I was looking at lyman and RCBS and didn't know which way to go.

[Wayne Smith]

Because I cast some large boolits I ladle cast. I have never used a bottom pour pot. I'm now casting as small as .25 caliber 75 grain boolits and the ladle works for those too.

[texassako]

I ladle pour, and more recently started bottom pouring. I have not tried the larger .45s and such yet, but I just weight sorted a bunch of bottom poured NOE dual cavity 311331s that were mostly in a .3 grain range and almost none outside of a 1 gr range. I think it is mostly about repeatability of your method, and that is pretty easy to do with a ladle.

[JeffG]

I've only bottom poured with a Lee 10# pot. Started that way in 92 and it just works for me. I've thought about trying ladle but keep asking myself why, when what I'm doing has worked so far. I expect that no matter which way you go, you will find that each mold has a personality so to speak and dyou'll figure out how you have to work with it. Personally, I like not having to disturb the melt after I flux and put sawdust on top.

[r1kk1]

Huh? I am not following?

Using Google and Wolfe Publishing Paul Matthews

https://www.riflemagazine.com/catalog/detail.cfm?ProductID=1247

Take care

r1kk1

[OuchHot!]

My rifle molds are all single or two cavity and I use one of two alloys....so I use a ladle and a designated furnace. For pistol, 99% is bottom pour from other furnaces. Most of that is 3, 4, and 6 cavity molds. Years ago, everything was ladle poured. There are some good reasons to start with ladle pouring in my view. I think that I got a better education at watching the timing and flow and had more direct attention paid to what was popping out of the mold. I didn't have PID, thermometers and so forth and really paid a lot of attention to the overall process. My BPCR boolits are really a one at a time laid back operation. When I run the bottom pour process I am usually running pretty fast.

[bbqncigars]

moose0011, you might want to look at a Waage pot for ladle casting. IIRC, you have to contact them and tell them you want one for boolit casting, as those aren't in their catalog. I love my Waage.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

If you deal with Wolfe Publishing ask them about "The Art of Bullet Casting".....It is a classic collection of articles pertaining to cast bullets. One article in particular by Jim Carmichael deals specifically with a lengthy discussion/comparison of ladle casting vs bottom pour and highlights the pros and cons of either method. LLS

[Tackleberry41]

I started with a ladle, as said the basics is usually a good place to start. Only recently have I invested in a bottom pour pot, but still good to have the old ladle pot as I have one to melt the junk in. Big bullets your better off with the ladle, shotgun slugs, big 45-70 stuff. Smaller stuff is fine with the bottom pour, and faster.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

When I first started casting, I bought a high quality ladle. I was given a 10 pound lee bottom pour. I still have both, but have also added a Lee 20 pound bottom pour. Now the 10 pounder feeds the 20 pounder and I've tweeked the nozzle of both for better, smoother, faster feed.

I haven't used my ladle yet, but if I get into a situation the bottom pours don't pour fast enough, I'll dig it out and use it.

My suggestion is to be flexible in your thinking and be willing to try both to see what works for you and the molds you use. I have found I prefer high capacity aluminum molds and often buy custom made aluminum molds for specific applications.

There's lots of molds and lots of selections for whatever your application. Think about where your largest need for boolits is, select a mold for that need and go from there.

BTW, everything related to boolit casting, molds, pouring and reloading is very personal. Sometimes you just have to try things to find out what fits you personally.

[Greg B.]

I use both. Wheelweights get smelted and fluxed in a 20 lb. cast iron pot on a two burner Coleman stove then made into ingots.Keeps the garbage out of the bottom pour spout. The RCBS bottom pour is used mostly to feed an iron four cavity Lyman pistol mold. Rarely is the bottom pour used by itself. While smelting the main burner is used to heat the alloy. The other burner is used to heat the iron mold. It is on a very low temperature for fear of warping the mold. For aluminum molds only one burner is used. The mold is placed maybe three quarters of an inch away from the flame under the lead pot. Rifle boolits are usually dip poured fron a simple wood handled ladle which is also used to stir the melt. I used the old iron pot for over twenty years before getting the bottom pour to increase production speed.