460 Rowland

[John Allen]

Anyone out there played with one of these yet?



The Mighty 460 Rowland Cartridge delivers true .44 Magnum power, accuracy and range in your favorite, light-weight, easy shooting, .45 caliber auto-loading pistol with much less deafening noise, night-blinding muzzle flash, target-obscuring muzzle rise, punishing recoil, and far greater volumes of fire than Dirty Harry’s .44 Magnum ever could. All this has made the .460 Rowland the single most successful, independently developed cartridge in history.
.460 Rowland Cartridge by Cor Bon

* "Johnny's Personal Carry"

The Authentic .460 Rowland cartridge uses extreme chamber pressures to achieve it’s .44 magnum muzzle velocities and will propel a 185 grain bullet from a five inch barrel to 1550 fps and, unlike a standard .45 ACP cartridge, it realizes 20% higher velocities when fired from an eighteen inch barrel. This makes our soon to be available .460 Rowland carbine accurate and devistating to 150 yards.

In order to prevent our high-pressure round from being chambering and fired from guns that may not be up to the task, the .460 Rowland’s shell casing is 1/16 of an inch longer than a standard .45 ACP cartridge. Due to their identical overall length, however, an Authentic .460 Rowland Conversion will reliably feed and fire standard .45 ACP cartridges from standard .45 ACP magazines; just like the .357 Magnum feeds and fires the .38 Special… only bigger… much bigger.

Standard .45 ACP reloading equipment may also be used to load .460 Rowland cartridges and owing to ten plus years of market success, lots of loading data are readily available. Factory ammunition and brass are also available from a number of other quality manufactures, although we take great pains to insure ours is more consist than you will find anywhere else. One would expect nothing less form the inventor and developer him self.

[reed1911]

Yep, I shoot it in both a 1911 and converted 625. Both work well, although I would not compare it to a .44 Mag. I prefer it in my 625, after I re-chambered the cylinder that came with the gun, as-cast 255g .454" bullets shoot one hole groups so long as I hold them there. Honestly, unless you have a real need to go up in power, it may or may not be worth your effort. It is certainly a much less expensive option than many due to the barrel swap only and ability to use standard 45 acp dies. In the 625 since it all head spaces off the clip you can still shoot ACP and Auto-rim with no issue.

[jjsharpshooter]

Can you shoot 45 auto in the Rowland bbl without problems?

[HarryT]

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm

"We do not recommend shooting .45 ACP in the 460 kit."

[onceabull]

One buying mistake that still wakes me up screaming was to drop out of the chase for a Dan Wesson Revolver im 460 Rowland,,Only one I ever had a chance at,and quit just under the top bidder...( of course I'm certain he would have gone a grand or two higher if pushed---!!! _ Onceabull

[jmort]

The .44 magnum is way more gun. .460 Rowland compares with a .41 magnum with lighter bullets. Regardless, it makes a lot of sense. Would love to have Rowland's XD conversion.

[jjsharpshooter]

Been thinking about a glock conversion and a friend wants the 1911 version, gotta save my change.

[John Allen]

I thought about converting my glock it looks like a drop in

[tacklebury]

Yes, you may have to install a lighter recoil spring for the ACP cartridge (unless you load them hot).

You sure about that? Most automatics I'm familiar with headspace on the case mouth. Thus the reasoning for using taper crimp only. I think you could have an issue. I know you could probably buy a .45 acp barrel to drop into one with minimal changes like a spring. I don't know, but just wanted to bring it up. ;)

[HarryT]

I shoot .45 ACP in my Commander .460 conversion. I had Clark Custom put mine together years ago and back then they said I could shoot .45 ACP in it. Now I see on their web site that .45 ACP should not be shot in the .460 Rowland barrel.

[reed1911]

Assuming the chamber is cut properly, without seating the bullets into the lands, the only thing holding the case will be the extractor. Can it be done? Yes. Should it? Absolutely not!

I've seen 10mm's that will shoot .40 S&W as well simply due to a tight extractor. Not a good policy and a great way to take a trip to the gunsmith and start shelling out $.

[lksmith]

Yup It's a blast/ Bought a Ruger 1911 as a host for it and it's more accurate than I. It'll shoot factory and hotter level 45ACP and cycle with the 24lb spring.
Won't cycle my plinking loads of 5.3gr HP38 and 200gr lead hp with that spring, but bump it up to 6.0-6.2 and it'll work.
Change back to the stock 45acp spring and it's flawless.
That 24spring is a booger to put in though.

[300savage]

well heck have you ever actually tried to put a booger back in ?? just wondering..

[lksmith]

well heck have you ever actually tried to put a booger back in ?? just wondering..

That's the G-rated version :wink:

That 24lb spring takes a gorilla and an extra set of hands to put it in.

[oger]

Agree about the spring, mine doesn't get cleaned alot because of it. That said I really like it and it shoots as well as anything I own.

[leftiye]

How close to the Rowland does the .45 super come? I've heard that the .45 super cases approximate (and can be made from) .308 brass shortened and with the necks (only) reamed. I'd bet the Rowland is this same thang, just a bit longer. Ie. the brass will by itself probly contain magnum pressures (no, I'm not about to fire such a thing unsupported to find out. The Ackley tests did show that a 30-30 case could support 30,000 psi FWIW). So, how close does the 45 super come?

[300savage]

it can come as close as you want it to come.

[Ruger45Bisley]

I don't bother with the Rowland, but do load the .45 Super. About the only brass for the .45 Super is from Starline and according to them, it's as strong as 460 Rowland brass. My setup, a Gen4 G21 with comped KKM barrel (5" with threading), has very good case support. The comp is needed for the stronger loads, but in my setup here's some velocity averages, mainly with Longshot and 800x:

300gr Beartooth LFNGC @ 1,150+ fps
275gr Hunters Supply hardcast @ 1,200+ fps
250gr XTP @ 1,300+ fps
230gr XTP @ 1,400+ fps
200gr XTP @ 1,500 fps
185gr XTP @ 1,600 fps

All from my 5" barreled G21 Gen4 using my handloads. I wouldn't think of shooting these without the comp, slide speed gets too fast and problems arise, so the comp slows down the slide and tames the recoil somewhat.

The .45 Super Starline brass can be loaded to 460 Rowland levels and the same setup shoots .45 ACP like a charm since unlike the slightly longer cased Rowland, is the same length as .45 ACP brass, although recoil is much less as you would expect shoot the ACP loads. Brass with above loads looks great, no signs of anything.

I also want to add, these loads shoot just fine from my 5.5" stainless Ruger Bisley .45 ACP cylinder, no sticky extraction at all.

[lksmith]

I don't bother with the Rowland, but do load the .45 Super. About the only brass for the .45 Super is from Starline and according to them, it's as strong as 460 Rowland brass. My setup, a Gen4 G21 with comped KKM barrel (5" with threading), has very good case support. The comp is needed for the stronger loads, but in my setup here's some velocity averages, mainly with Longshot and 800x:

300gr Beartooth LFNGC @ 1,150+ fps
275gr Hunters Supply hardcast @ 1,200+ fps
250gr XTP @ 1,300+ fps
230gr XTP @ 1,400+ fps
200gr XTP @ 1,500 fps
185gr XTP @ 1,600 fps

All from my 5" barreled G21 Gen4 using my handloads. I wouldn't think of shooting these without the comp, slide speed gets too fast and problems arise, so the comp slows down the slide and tames the recoil somewhat.

The .45 Super Starline brass can be loaded to 460 Rowland levels and the same setup shoots .45 ACP like a charm since unlike the slightly longer cased Rowland, is the same length as .45 ACP brass, although recoil is much less as you would expect shoot the ACP loads. Brass with above loads looks great, no signs of anything.

I also want to add, these loads shoot just fine from my 5.5" stainless Ruger Bisley .45 ACP cylinder, no sticky extraction at all.

The only difference between 460Rowland brass and 45Super brass is length. The reason is that 45 Super could accidentally be fired/fit in an unmodified gun where the 460rowland will not fit.

[leftiye]

I don't want a short .45 Win mag. Where I see the .45 super or Rowland as being useful is to take the .45 to being the ultimate manstopper. As even 230 grain RBs have penetration to spare while sacrificing energy release into target/jerk, I see about a 180 or 200 grain bullet or boolit traveling plenty fast for devastating expansion. I'm pretty sure that the magnums and some auto rounds like the 10mm or .357 sig have energy to spare (and more than needed) for social work. I also have believed that .45 caliber (or bigger) are superior in killing power (and better still if expanded), and that 700 ft/lbs of energy is probly plenty. The FBI wasn't a lot off the mark with their .40 S&W as pertains to manageability being a real plus too. Though I do like the 10mm mo bettah.

[reed1911]

A little off topic, but the 10mmwas spot on (so was the .41 mag), recoil management is a rather subjective. When we shot for competition many of the girls preferred the 1911 to the M9 due to the grip. The thinner 1911 was easier to handle and shoot accurately with less felt recoil than the 9mm M9. My wife is another example where her 6" .357 mag loaded with 200g heavy loads and she shoots it all day, yet the recoil (and subsequent cycle action) of the Hi-Power bothers her.

The extra recoil from the .460 is not, in my opinion, really noticeable unless you shoot them together with the ACP.

[lksmith]

In my stainless ruger the difference in recoil and how far the brass was thrown, was essentially the same as when shooting 45acp. in My blued hi standard the difference was quite noticeable in recoil and how far th brass was thrown (over 30ft in some cases). But I have put some stuff on th hi standard which makes the surface between the slide n frame nearly frictionless.

[Bryan527]

I've got 500 cases (bought when Starline had them in stock) and a 1911 suitable for the conversion. Now I'm playing the 'time/money' waiting game. Like most, I've got too many gun projects going at once.

[lksmith]

I've got 500 cases (bought when Starline had them in stock) and a 1911 suitable for the conversion. Now I'm playing the 'time/money' waiting game. Like most, I've got too many gun projects going at once.
Keep in mind that the 460Rowland is not a caliber to hotrod like you can a 44mag since it is already hotrodded.
I misread my load data and loaded 230grn JHP with 12.0gr of longshot which is the max load for 230gr but starting load for 200gr. The first shot I had a pierced primer and some jet cutting on my titanium firing pin, but no catastrophic damage, so I pulled them all and reduced them to 10.0gr. Be extra careful with this round, it is very impressive but demands a lot of care and attention to detail beyond many other calibers

[skiddyfisk]

Been playing with 460 data in standard 45 auto cases in my Mauser carbine. This is really fun out of a rifle, and the Mauser can take far more pressure than the 460 will generate.

I wouldn't attempt this out of a converted pistol, but 9 grains of bullseye under a 230 grain XTP yields 1365 FPS and a reliable 4 MOA at 100 yards without any kind of pressure sign on the primer or case head. My experimentation is ongoing but I'm unfortunately limited by the pistol powder I can scrounge locally.

[osteodoc08]

I've shot a friend of mines that was built on a Kimber host. It was a pleasure to shoot with not near the recoil I was expecting. This had more to do with the brake on the front, which I think is required to allow the timing to work in harmony with the gun.

Too much of a novelty to ever have it in my stable but is a pleasure to shoot.

[Moonie]

Been playing with 460 data in standard 45 auto cases in my Mauser carbine. This is really fun out of a rifle, and the Mauser can take far more pressure than the 460 will generate.

I wouldn't attempt this out of a converted pistol, but 9 grains of bullseye under a 230 grain XTP yields 1365 FPS and a reliable 4 MOA at 100 yards without any kind of pressure sign on the primer or case head. My experimentation is ongoing but I'm unfortunately limited by the pistol powder I can scrounge locally.

Over at handloads.com they have an article on loads like that for a NMBH 45acp cylinder. http://handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=41

I won't load them for my NMBH convertible as we have 4 1911's in the family (I have 2) that I load for, too much chance of something bad happening.

[Dutchninja]

I have a G21 with the conversion that I got from Tom over at 460rowland.com. I've had it for almost a year now and have shot it quite a bit with mostly 185g XTPs out of it. Was getting over 1,400 FPS with long shot. Recoil is really controllable with not a lot of rise with their style of comp.

For me, the barrel was a drop in fit with no issues other than the ordering problem I had with them. It took about three months at the time from when I ordered to when I finally received it. The one cosmetic detail that I personally didn't care for was the yellow color fill at the end of the muzzle that says authentic 460 Rowland. just seemed gaudy to me but whatever. They do provide you with the correct guide rod / spring an additional mag spring and a little thing of locktite. I used just standard blue locktite and it seems to be holding just fine. I did end up using the provided spring in one of my mags. The rounds where nose diving in the mag, put the spring in and it seemed that has gone away. I don't know if it was just a tired out spring or not. I'm still testing a few different mags.

Got brass from Clark's customs. If i'm not mistaken i think Starline is also the only maker for 460 brass as well. I don't know if i would get another conversion kit from 460.com or not due to my own customer experience with them. I would probably look up Lone Wolf and one of their barrels. I do enjoy shooting it and it always seems to come with me every time I go shooting.

Hope this helps.