44 Van Houten

[helice]

Can anyone give me the differences between the 44 Van Houten and the 444 Marlin. I'm told that they used to build these on the standard Winchester M-94. What can you tell me about it?

[Dutch4122]

Helice-

According to P.O. Ackley's Volume 1 "Handbook For Shooters & Reloaders" (page 494) the .44 Van Houton Super is a .30/40 Krag case necked up to ".44 Calibre" with the rim turned down to .30-30 dimensions; and an overall case length trimmed to 2 inches. Ackley recommends a 1 turn in 18" or a 1 turn in 20" rate of twist. He claims the round was developed specifically for use in the Model 94 Winchester.

Listed loads claim a 250 grain jacketed bullet up to 2,355 fps.

Hope this helps,

[helice]

It always seems that the Michigan bunch always has an answer for me. First Edd, now Dutch. Edd has spoken so highly of you. Thanks for the help. Any idea what the dimentions are on the ctg? Or pressures?
Karl

[Dutch4122]

Karl, thanks for the kind words, although I'm sure Edd will deny everything!:-D

I haven't been able to find any pressure data on the .44 Van Houten Super. A brief web search turned up mention by some internet authority that the .44 VH was conceived just three short years before the .444 Marlin was announced to the market. I also found mention in Cartridges of the World that the .44 VH and the .444 Marlin are ballistic twins. Just not a lot of easy to find info out there beyond internet conjecture.

Here's the full entry from Ackley's Volume 1 "Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders" (23rd Printing in 2000)

.44 Van Houten Super

"The .44 Van Houten Super is a cartridge designed by Mr. E.B. Van Houten in cooperation with 'Lucky' Wade of Phoenix, Arizona. The case is a relatively efficient one and is made by necking up the .30/40 brass to .44 caliber then trimming it to 2 inches overall case length. The rim is turned off so as to work through the Model 94 Winchester for which this cartridge was especially designed.

250 gr. bullet / 37 gr. / 4227 powder / 2255 fs
47 gr. / 4198 powder / 2355 fs

250 gr. cast / 49 gr. / 3031 powder / 1970 fs

Standard Twist: 18", 20"

As at the bottom of every page of the book is the warning: MAXIMUM LOAD LISTED SHOULD BE APPROACHED WITH CARE

Edit: I did learn that the "Load From A Disk" version 5.0 apparently has the .44 VH on file. Unfortunately you'd have to buy the program to learn anything about this cartridge or see a drawing with dimensions.:roll:

Hope this helps,

[helice]

Dutch,
Thanks again for the info, and the request.
I have just received an old Winchester 94 barrel that is reported to have belonged to the estate of Lucky Wade. It started life as a 32 WS and was bored out to 44. I originally figured that this barrel was cut to the Van Houten Super but the chamber is too long. I don't have more than a caliper to measure with but the chamber appears to be about 2.2". I am now leaning to the 444 Marlin. The man I bought it from said that Lucky Wade was at least partly responsible for the creation of the 444.
I have a Big Bore Winchester in 444 Marlin and that rifle is quite "beefed up" when compared to the standard M-94. Yet this barrel is obviously for a standard M-94. I had thought that I'd mount it on a 94 action but the pressures of the 444 worry me. This barrel is so nice too. 26" Octagonal. I really wish it were still a 32. Now I'm puzzled for what to do.

[Dutch4122]

Interesting find, Karl. Seems like maybe if you did have that barrel installed on a regular 94 action it would be best to keep the pressures down around .30-30 levels? Accurate Powders Reloading Manual #2 reports the .30-30 maximum pressure at 38,000 CUP and the .444 Marlin maximum pressure at 44,000 CUP.

Although, since you already have the real thing in that Big Bore '94 action, why bother, eh?

I also have a Triple 4 in the Big Bore action. Mine is the "Black Shadow" version with a 20" barrel and a 1/12" twist. It likes heavier slugs with the fast twist barrel. The guns accuracy was so-so with a 280 grn lead g/c boolit. Shoots a 300 grn gas checked slug like a laserbeam. Next thing I'll be trying is a 350 grn g/c slug I designed through Mountain Molds. I love the Big Bore action & have one in each of the chamberings. Some day I hope to have all of them running with cast boolits.

[helice]

Man oh Man. Some guys have all the luck. I wanted a Black Shadow when I went after the 444. No luck. My Big Bore even has that funky cross bolt safety. It's saving grace is the wood. The 1 in 38 twist will keep 280LFNs and 300 WFNs doing well. I haven't tried anything heavier and have no interest in trying. I a 300WFN can't knock it down - I give up.

I looked at some Quick-loads for the standard action, keeping the pressure down to 35kPSI and I was pleased to see that one could get pretty good velocity with the 280 grain LFN. I like the 444 but I wonder (as you did) the logic in building one on a standard action. I originally thought I'd try to find an old Sears and Sawbuck Winchester, a Ted William or a Monkey Wards. The only labeling they carry (IFRC) is on their barrel. Replace the barrel with this 26" Octagonal, hang a long tube under it and away we go. The only ugly is the cheap birch stock. Oh well - maybe I should just give it to Edd.:lol:
Thanks again for your help Dutch.

[texassako]

Well, you never know what someone is thinking sometimes when they rechamber a gun. Take that recent thread about the .44-40 on a .38-40 barrel, or my .30-40 Improved in a Martini. Did someone really think it was a good idea to shove a big bullet down a little hole, or to push a Martini into .300 Win Mag territory(if you used Ackley's loads)? The original owner may know to keep loads lower pressure, but what about the next buyer or the one after that?

[Dutch4122]

Man oh Man. Some guys have all the luck. I wanted a Black Shadow when I went after the 444. No luck. My Big Bore even has that funky cross bolt safety. It's saving grace is the wood. The 1 in 38 twist will keep 280LFNs and 300 WFNs doing well. I haven't tried anything heavier and have no interest in trying. I a 300WFN can't knock it down - I give up.


I just stumbled into the rifle at Guns Galore of Fenton, MI back in 2002. I was there to get another rifle out of layaway and there it was on the rack. The factory tag said "1 in 12 twist" and I knew right there I had to have it. I don't mind the crossbolt safety at all when hunting up here. Safety "on" and rack 'em all out at the end of the day works well with heavy gloves or cold hands that have lost 1/2 of their dexterity.

USRAC sure was all over the map with their barrels on the Triple 4. I have heard that mine is an early gun with the 12" twist. Funny thing is the rifling looks like Micro-Groove, but it is way smoother that anything Marlin ever put out. Supposedly they then went the other way with your 38" twist next and eventually settled on either a 20" or 25" twist late in the run with the ported "Timber Carbine." Who knows what the real story was.

You are right, there's nothing up here either that I can't kill with this 300 grn Lee Group Buy bullet @ 2,200 fps. The darn thing shoots better than I could ever hold. Just gotta try that 350 grn G/C custom some day for grins.

Glad I could be of help, :)

[helice]

Well, you never know what someone is thinking sometimes when they rechamber a gun. Take that recent thread about the .44-40 on a .38-40 barrel, or my .30-40 Improved in a Martini. Did someone really think it was a good idea to shove a big bullet down a little hole, or to push a Martini into .300 Win Mag territory(if you used Ackley's loads)? The original owner may know to keep loads lower pressure, but what about the next buyer or the one after that?

Jeff,
This was exactly where I came. Most folks just pick up a box at the LGS and go shooting. We know how to keep pressures low. That doesn't insure that the next guy does.

[bearcove]

It always seems that the Michigan bunch always has an answer for me. First Edd, now Dutch. Edd has spoken so highly of you. Thanks for the help. Any idea what the dimentions are on the ctg? Or pressures?
Karl

Well they get more inside time than some of us. Its been in the high 60's low 70's here. I'm not by the woodstove reading loading manuals. LOL!

[bearcove]

I tried to find some info on this several years ago and found didley. I have a 35 LP same thing. The reamer maker that was making the reamers will have the info. But you might not get it. The liability now has made some of that info hard to get.

[Dutch4122]

Well they get more inside time than some of us. Its been in the high 60's low 70's here. I'm not by the woodstove reading loading manuals. LOL!

Wow! I envy you. It's been one of our coldest winters on record here this year. I work 3rd shift and we've honestly had several nights where we were at -35* with the wind chill. Last night was just as bad. These are definitely not typical temperatures for Michigan at the end of February!

[helice]

Being in Sunny (or was that 'funny') California does have some perks. We seldom have bad weather. I grew up in North Dakota and I know what cold is.
Bearcove,
I gave some thought to talking with RCBS to see if they had chamber dimentions for dies but after checking chamber length on this barrel I was certain that this was not a Van Houten Super. It was just too long. I thought that the chamber was a bit generous to be a 444 Marlin. The case seemed to swim in the chamber. I supposed I should get me some cerrosafe and cast the chamber to be sure. The idea of mounting a 444 on a stock standard M-94 action just struggles within me. I like the old slab-sides action so much but I don't want to endanger some poor shooter, even after they have pried my cold dead hands.:-D

[Dutch4122]

Karl-

I stumbled across one more .44 wildcat possibility for that barrel. However, this one obviously never was as popular as the .458x2 American. It was called the .44 Alpen. Supposed to have been made out of a cut down and necked up .300 H&H case. If you do your chamber cast and find that it was a belted cartridge; as well as you are certain it was in fact bored out to .44 caliber. Then you may in fact have a .44 Alpen.

There was supposedly (according to an internet source) mention of this cartridge made in the December, 1967 issue of Gun World magazine.

Unfortunately, that's all the info I can find.

[lar45]

you could just use a dial caliper to measure the breach.
That would help to narrow down the parent case.

[helice]

My apologies Lar45.
I never thought to include that information. Chamber dials to 0.467 or maybe 0.468 at it's base. This is .004 or .005 larger than the cases I dialed.
It's also about .010 larger than the base of the 30-40 case.
In my post #5 I identified the aproximate length of the chamber to be 2.2". This was done by sticking a pen down there till it caught on the end of the chamber. It just so happened that there was advertising writing on the pen that corresponded to the end of the barrel. I could measure from the end of the pen to that point on the writing to get my estimate of length. (I was never highly reguarded for my precision work. [smilie=1:) I know that I could not have screwed up that measurement by two tenths of an inch so I was quite certain that I no longer had a Van Houten Super which was reported to be 2.00".
If it had been a VHSuper I probably might have considered this more thoroughly. A VHSuper chamber would force the next user to reload as opposed to buying a box of Remington 444 Marlins at the LGS. Load tables that keep pressures at Dutch's suggested 38k CUP could go with the rifle and cautions could be followed. As a 444M - well - those cautions can be bypassed at the cash register with a box of loads that go 44k CUP. The idea troubles my soul.

What's a barrel like this worth? Who'd be intested in it? It's a cryin' shame too cause that barrel is so pretty. It shows no sign of ever being fired. Clean as a new set of dentures.:roll: :grin:

[lar45]

You could always shorten the barrel enough that a factory 444 won't fit.
Maybe call it a 444 special or whatever. That way you'd have to trim 444 brass and reload to be able to shoot it??

[helice]

If I sliced off 0.200" I'd have a Van Houten Super. It's just more gunsmithing. $$$$

[OlDeuce]

This is a good thread ! I have done this and have been looking for CUP loads that will keep it in the 38000 cup range!! Rather hard to find info. Funny thing .....I called Hodgdon yesterday......the guy really didn't want to talk to me about this ....I was a little upset over his attitude !!!!on this subject .
but he did say "You won't have an issue with primers in the 35.000 to 45.000 cup" Hmmm.... I really want this to be a safe shooter !........
I have a early 1894 Winchester with a 20'' rechambered .44 mag barrel cut to 2.10. My brass is trimmed to 2.080 ! I've Test fired her with a starting
chg of 28.9gr IMR3031 and a cast boolit @209gr sized to .429.. Primers looked good!!!!
188642188644188645188647

[OlDeuce]

Doing more research on CUP and look what was hiding !!!! Not been a big fan of Winchester powders but I may be now LoL:guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley:

188678

[MT Chambers]

Be careful with some of the early Ackly loads, they are very heavy to very overly optimistic.

[OlDeuce]

Be careful with some of the early Ackly loads, they are very heavy to very overly optimistic.

Oh Yes I sure don't want to take the lid off my Old Winchester !! and Hurt Me !!!!! ?????????? wonder if Hodgdon did any testing on these
before putting them in there manual #26?????? Ol Deuce

[lar45]

Hi Duece, sounds like a great project. Is it a 444 chamber, or shortened.
Do you have Quickload? If not, I'd be more than happy to run some numbers with it.
I'd just need the water capacity of the case, case length, and bullet used with bullet length and COAL. If you send the powders you have on hand and are thinking about, I'll run them first.

[OlDeuce]

Hi Duece, sounds like a great project. Is it a 444 chamber, or shortened.
Do you have Quickload? If not, I'd be more than happy to run some numbers with it.
I'd just need the water capacity of the case, case length, and bullet used with bullet length and COAL. If you send the powders you have on hand and are thinking about, I'll run them first.

Lar45 :-) this is way cool :-) ok the water volume is 4ml right to the drop! the case is 2" with the rim it's 2.75 ! THE boolit is 209gr .429 & length
.660 ! the COAL is 2.380 ! ...........My on hand powders IMR3031,IMR4198,IMR4227,IMR700x,Unique,Hodgdon HS6, GOEX 3fff [smilie=s:
the Winchester 748 powder may be the the one. My test fire was with IMR3031 @28.9gr with CCI 200 primer !!!!!! 12 to 14''low at the 75 yd target :-( the chamber is 2.10 deep??

Thanks Ol Deuce ;)

[lar45]

Hi Deuce, Sorry took me abit to get back to this.
Remember this is a computer simulation, not actual tested load data.
The Case capacity needs to be in grains of water. I put an empty case on a digital scale, zero it, then fill the case with water and weigh again.
Quickload has a capacity of 60gns H2O. Let me know if your case is different and I'll adjust it.

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Winchester 748


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 78 38.40 1530 1087 11040 1684 50.7 2.199
-18.0 80 39.36 1572 1147 11794 1776 52.3 2.137
-16.0 82 40.32 1615 1211 12591 1870 53.9 2.074
-14.0 84 41.28 1659 1277 13447 1965 55.5 2.012
-12.0 86 42.24 1703 1346 14360 2062 57.2 1.953
-10.0 88 43.20 1749 1419 15336 2159 58.9 1.895
-08.0 89 44.16 1795 1495 16380 2258 60.5 1.840
-06.0 91 45.12 1842 1574 17499 2357 62.2 1.785
-04.0 93 46.08 1889 1657 18699 2457 63.8 1.733
-02.0 95 47.04 1938 1743 19986 2556 65.5 1.683
+00.0 97 48.00 1987 1832 21368 2656 67.1 1.634
+02.0 99 48.96 2037 1925 22856 2755 68.8 1.587
+04.0 101 49.92 2087 2021 24458 2853 70.4 1.541
+06.0 103 50.88 2138 2122 26185 2951 72.0 1.496
+08.0 105 51.84 2190 2225 28053 3047 73.6 1.452
+10.0 107 52.80 2242 2333 30071 3142 75.1 1.410

[lar45]

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 3031


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 78 33.60 1413 927 8813 1487 49.0 2.409
-18.0 80 34.44 1451 978 9358 1570 50.6 2.346
-16.0 82 35.28 1490 1030 9934 1656 52.2 2.284
-14.0 84 36.12 1529 1086 10546 1745 53.8 2.225
-12.0 86 36.96 1569 1143 11193 1838 55.5 2.167
-10.0 88 37.80 1610 1202 11881 1932 57.2 2.111
-08.0 90 38.64 1651 1264 12610 2028 58.9 2.053
-06.0 92 39.48 1693 1330 13383 2125 60.6 1.997
-04.0 94 40.32 1735 1398 14204 2222 62.3 1.942
-02.0 96 41.16 1779 1468 15076 2320 64.0 1.890
+00.0 98 42.00 1823 1542 16004 2419 65.7 1.838
+02.0 100 42.84 1868 1619 16989 2517 67.4 1.788
+04.0 102 43.68 1913 1698 18038 2616 69.1 1.740
+06.0 104 44.52 1959 1781 19155 2714 70.7 1.693
+08.0 106 45.36 2005 1866 20344 2811 72.4 1.648
+10.0 108 46.20 2052 1954 21614 2907 74.0 1.604

[lar45]

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 4198


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 80 32.80 1810 1520 15742 2160 76.3 1.836
-18.0 82 33.62 1854 1595 16748 2243 77.8 1.785
-16.0 84 34.44 1898 1672 17811 2325 79.3 1.737
-14.0 86 35.26 1942 1751 18933 2407 80.7 1.690
-12.0 88 36.08 1987 1832 20118 2487 82.0 1.645
-10.0 90 36.90 2031 1915 21370 2566 83.3 1.602
-08.0 92 37.72 2076 1999 22679 2644 84.6 1.560
-06.0 94 38.54 2120 2086 24091 2720 85.8 1.520
-04.0 96 39.36 2165 2174 25568 2794 87.0 1.482
-02.0 98 40.18 2209 2264 27134 2867 88.2 1.445
+00.0 100 41.00 2253 2356 28788 2937 89.3 1.409
+02.0 102 41.82 2297 2449 30540 3005 90.3 1.375
+04.0 104 42.64 2341 2544 32395 3070 91.3 1.341

************************************************** *****
Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 4227

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 32.80 1992 1842 20575 2401 86.7 1.631
-18.0 80 33.62 2039 1929 21952 2476 87.9 1.585
-16.0 82 34.44 2084 2016 23409 2549 89.0 1.542
-14.0 84 35.26 2130 2106 24952 2620 90.1 1.501
-12.0 86 36.08 2176 2196 26588 2688 91.2 1.461
-10.0 88 36.90 2221 2289 28321 2755 92.1 1.423
-08.0 90 37.72 2266 2383 30158 2818 93.1 1.387
-06.0 92 38.54 2311 2478 32108 2880 93.9 1.352

[lar45]

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 41 12.00 1538 1098 15500 1045 100.0 1.993
-18.0 42 12.30 1560 1129 16189 1066 100.0 1.957
-16.0 43 12.60 1581 1161 16892 1088 100.0 1.921
-14.0 44 12.90 1603 1192 17609 1109 100.0 1.888
-12.0 45 13.20 1623 1223 18340 1130 100.0 1.856
-10.0 46 13.50 1644 1254 19086 1152 100.0 1.825
-08.0 47 13.80 1665 1286 19846 1173 100.0 1.796
-06.0 48 14.10 1685 1317 20620 1194 100.0 1.768
-04.0 49 14.40 1704 1348 21408 1215 100.0 1.741
-02.0 50 14.70 1724 1380 22210 1236 100.0 1.715
+00.0 51 15.00 1744 1411 23027 1256 100.0 1.690
+02.0 52 15.30 1763 1442 23858 1277 100.0 1.666
+04.0 53 15.60 1782 1473 24703 1298 100.0 1.643
+06.0 54 15.90 1800 1504 25563 1318 100.0 1.621
+08.0 55 16.20 1819 1536 26437 1339 100.0 1.599
+10.0 56 16.50 1837 1567 27325 1359 100.0 1.578

************************************************** ************

Cartridge : .44 Van Houten Super
Bullet : .429, 200, LEE 429-200-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 49.762 grain H2O = 3.231 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.380 inch = 60.45 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon HS-6


Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !


Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


-20.0 35 16.00 1636 1242 16377 1233 100.0 1.892
-18.0 36 16.40 1660 1279 17158 1256 100.0 1.855
-16.0 37 16.80 1685 1317 17959 1279 100.0 1.820
-14.0 38 17.20 1709 1355 18781 1302 100.0 1.786
-12.0 39 17.60 1732 1392 19625 1325 100.0 1.754
-10.0 40 18.00 1755 1430 20489 1347 100.0 1.723
-08.0 41 18.40 1778 1467 21375 1370 100.0 1.694
-06.0 41 18.80 1801 1505 22282 1393 100.0 1.665
-04.0 42 19.20 1823 1542 23212 1415 100.0 1.638
-02.0 43 19.60 1845 1580 24163 1437 100.0 1.612
+00.0 44 20.00 1867 1617 25137 1460 100.0 1.587
+02.0 45 20.40 1888 1655 26134 1482 100.0 1.563
+04.0 46 20.80 1910 1692 27153 1504 100.0 1.540
+06.0 47 21.20 1931 1730 28196 1525 100.0 1.518
+08.0 48 21.60 1951 1767 29263 1547 100.0 1.496
+10.0 48 22.00 1972 1805 30353 1569 100.0 1.476

[OlDeuce]

WoW Lar45 this is very interesting !!!! I'm going to study this and figure out my next move ......Thank You Sir!!!!

Ol Deuce

[lar45]

The Win 748 looked interesting. You could load a slightly compressed load of 50gns and get 2100fps at 25,000 psi. Lots of speed and completely safe pressures for the regular 1894 action.

[OlDeuce]

The Win 748 looked interesting. You could load a slightly compressed load of 50gns and get 2100fps at 25,000 psi. Lots of speed and completely safe pressures for the regular 1894 action.

Lar45 thank you for the help!!!! I went back and scaled my water volume 4ml weighted out to 64gr!!!!! :-) ;):2_high5:

Ol Deuce

[nekshot]

I am not a gunsmith genius but I would make that barrel work and shortening it might be the ticket. I had a Timber 444 in wood but the kid swiped it for his! Now I need another one!

[OlDeuce]

I am not a gunsmith genius but I would make that barrel work and shortening it might be the ticket. I had a Timber 444 in wood but the kid swiped it for his! Now I need another one!

Yes you do !:-) :-) when I'm done testing I should have 3 good shooters ! I call it a 44-56WC 20", 26", 30"+ :-)

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Went powder shopping on Friday :-) :-) bought 3Lbs. of W748 for $63 bucks ..........Ol Deuce

[lar45]

Wow, what an excellent price.

[Fishman]

A thought occurs to me and I apologize if I am being too simplistic.

Have you tried chambering a .444 marlin to see if it actually fits? Perhaps the barrel just has a lengthened throat to reduce pressures?

[OlDeuce]

A thought occurs to me and I apologize if I am being too simplistic.

Have you tried chambering a .444 marlin to see if it actually fits? Perhaps the barrel just has a lengthened throat to reduce pressures?

Fishman...........Thats a good thought ! The action throw is to short to handle the length of the un-fired .444 round and also levering the round got hung up on the front of the shell ....you maybe could man it in but that isn't the way it should work! It all needs to work as smooth as silk ! Keeping the case length a 2.080'' of less is best!!!

OL Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Going to cut the chamber in this 26'' Octagon this afternoon!!! :-) :-)

Ol Deuce

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The cartridge guides on a Win 94 fit a .30-30 closely for a very controlled feed. A .444 would not come up out of unchanged Win 94 cartridge guides very smoothly, if at all. The cartridge guides may need to be relieved to feed the wider case body. Even the slightly wider .303 Savage can get caught in the unmodified cartridge guides that are made for the 30-30. The Marlin cartridge carrier is designed much differently.

[OlDeuce]

The cartridge guides on a Win 94 fit a .30-30 closely for a very controlled feed. A .444 would not come up out of unchanged Win 94 cartridge guides very smoothly, if at all. The cartridge guides may need to be relieved to feed the wider case body. Even the slightly wider .303 Savage can get caught in the unmodified cartridge guides that are made for the 30-30. The Marlin cartridge carrier is designed much differently.

I have to remove a total of .040 from the rails .020 from each side and I should be fine ......This will be my next project!!! :-) :-)

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Today I got the chamber cut and the barrel back on the old 1894 action :D:D:happy dance::happy dance::2_high5::guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley:
So tomorrow I'll get the rest of it together and a test fire by Hi-NooN ;);)

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

The 26''rifle shoots great the 310GC cast on a 1:18 twist is what it needed ! Ill get it on paper and see what it does !!
189625189626

Now there is 2 ! wOw:2_high5: Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

The 47.4 gr of the Winchester 748 & 209gr RN cast boolit works well Now .......1700fps is way cool 189927