Excitement in dealing with Braztech (Rossi), or whatever they're calling themselves.

[Buckshot]

.........The bottom tang of the M92 (As you're well aware) is a separate piece. Somehow or the other at some point, probably at initial disassembley for cleanup, I managed to strip most of the threads on the hammer screw, which also retains the bottom tang. And yes, it's some communistic metric thread. As it turns out is M4.5 x .05 thread, but let's not let that interfere with my story.

I wanted a new screw so I called them up. Set awhile letting the phone ring. They picked up after maybe 6-7 minutes. I spoke to Brett. He wanted my name and the serial number of the firearm, which I gave him. He cannot find the serial number. My 45 Colt 24" octagon barreled rifle was imported by LSI, Reno, NV. "Oh, he says, you'll have to contact Legacy Sports for parts.

So I find the number for LSI in Reno, NV. I get ahold of them and the guy has a good time laughing. He says they get the odd call wanting parts and he sincerely wishes he could help out but those boneheads at Braztech totally refuse to supply him with parts, and I'll have to call them back.

So I call Braztech back and after the wait I get a female. Her name is Lie-eesh-ah. She is wanting to be very helpfull after I explain what I've gone through. I have the exploded drawing and tell her it is number 68 on the drawing. The hammer screw. That's all I want. She is at the same time trying to tell me that LSI no longer imports the Rossi, or PUMA M92 rifles/carbines. She wants to know if it is the Rio Grande, or some other foolishness? I patiently explain AGAIN that it is chambered 45 Colt, 24" octagon barrel M92 LEVER ACTION,and we go round and round about the freaking hammer screw, which is number 68 on the exploded drawing.

Finally I think we're getting somewhere. She asks me if I can hold a moment while she does a bit of checking with someone. I don't know, nor do I care if it's Jesus Christ but lets get SOMEONE on the phone who has a clue about a simple freaking hammer screw. So I say yes that I can hold. I dunno what happens, but I am now presented with a dial tone. In disbelief like a true idiot I say, "Hello! Hello!" simply because I do not want to accept the fact that after all that I've been hung up on!

I AM NOT going to give up after all this so I call back. Listening to the phone ring for another 6-8 minutes or so, and lo and behold good ole Brett answers the phone wanting to know if he may help me.

I tell my good ole pal Brett, speaking as if to an idiot what I have been through, and who I have talked to, and that I had also spoken to him maybe 30 minutes ago. All I want is a &*^^% freaking HAMMER SCREW. I suggested that if he cannot supply so simple a part as that, that he might (in this wonderous age of instantaneous intercontinental communication) at least supply me with the OD and pitch of the G-D screw threads, even if he had to call someone in Brazil to look at the prints, as I have a machine shop at my disposal I WILL MAKE THE G-D SCREW!!!!

However in the meantime while waiting for someone to answer, I had gone and got my Rossi M92 38/357 Carbine, and had pulled the hammer screw out and determined (it is also LSI import) threaded M4.5-0.5. But by this time I wanted some customer support, and had decided I would die on the phone getting these knuckleheads to tell me what I'd already figured out, so help me God. Brett finally came back on the phone and said that he would be able to ship the hammer screw, and did I need any other parts? I said that after what I had been though that it might have been nice to have a couple other consumable parts on hand, but I figured the hammer screw would suffice. So for $12.85 for the screw and shipping I will be getting the hammer screw I was needing.

.............Buckshot

[Pb2au]

Holy cow.
That is ridiculous. I have had good luck with mine so far, but what disturbs be is stories like yours are becoming more and more common. It does not bode well for the future.

[jsheyn]

I am very surprised they did not say that was a restricted part and that you would have to send your gun in.... very surprised

[jmort]

I have had the pleasure of dealing with that same non-customer service. Just got an M92 in .357. Hoping it holds-up. I have found that multiple phone calls help until you get someone to say yes.

[LeftyDon]

I would have ordered two screws, just because ....... :dung_hits_fan:

[garym1a2]

And people like to rip the Henrys.

[helice]

This all proves that one need not be trained to answer a phone.

[fishnbob]

I needed to replace the front sight on mine and was told that I had to send it in for installation. I bought a sight from out west somewhere that saved me from cussing them out. I swear I'll buy a Henry or even a Remlin next time.

[FergusonTO35]

Seems like the biggest problem with Rossi is that in the US you are always dealing with a second party importer, not Rossi itself. Naturally they aren't wanting to support customers with guns from previous importers.

[Bullshop Junior]

I broke the little lever pin retaining screw on my LSI imported 454 the other day. Have been avoiding making that phone call...

[btroj]

And people complain about "Remlins"?

[hpdrifter]

Isn't it fun. Dealing with idiots hired off the streets that know absolutely nothing about their product.

It got so bad a a local hardware store when asked if 'Can I help you?", I usually said "I doubt it", but I'd tell em what I was looking for while I was walking to it. By the time they understood what Ineeded, I usually had it in hand.

When I have to call customer service nowadays, I usually try to work up a GOOD attitude and have plenty of time. I was talking to a computer support person, probably from/ in India about something, I forget, but after going thru the motions of his instructions he said "Now, hit any key"
I hit a key and kept silent for a few seconds, the computer was going thru its gyrations anyway, but I finally said " I can't find the ANY key" Dead silence, I mean for 15 or 20 seconds. Finally I told him I was joking and the computer was doing its thang. He was relieved.

I really hate these automated answering systems claiming to be 24 hour support. Usually circular and no actual help at all.

Tis sad the world we evolved into. Actually, you'd think the gun industry might have some of the better support and overall they probably do, but lawyeritis is a scourge of a disease as well as "lean" mentality.

[hpdrifter]

I would have ordered two screws, just because ....... :dung_hits_fan:

But what number would the second one be?:roll:

[blikseme300]

About half way through reading Buckshot's post my blood was already boiling to the point where I would have used an old hack saw and a piece of steel to make the screw rather than continue to try getting satisfaction from customer (dis)service.

I like lever action rifles but have been turned off by the bad finish of the Brazilian rifles and the terrible customer (dis)service experience of people such as Buckshot. H#ll will need to freeze over before I waste money on these products.

[Bored1]

And to think, I had just about almost talked myself into buying a stainless 357 or 44 mag rossi!

[str8shot426]

The bad thing is QC problems are happening more often with American iron too. The customer service is a bit better though.

[Tackleberry41]

Funny only way it seems you can contact Rossi is by phone or old fashioned pen and paper, their web site has no way to send an email. They can support a web site but not email. And it seems they dont really answer the phone unless you let it ring so long they realize your not going to give up.

[jonp]

I know this is a thread about Rossi's but I have called 2 gun companies and a Gun Cleaning Kit Company in the last 2 months or so.

The gun cleaning kit I got for Christmas was missing a piece. I called the number in Minnesota and a very nice lady answered. I told her the deal and she said "no problem we will mail the part". "Free"? "You Betcha" Seriously, she said You Betcha! Got it free of charge in a week

I bought a used Hi Point 9mm and the dimwit I got if from decided he was a Master Gunsmith and fooled with it. Besides soaking the whole thing over night in parts cleaner to "clean" it. It was missing the magazine disconnect and another piece. I looked up Hi Point and called them. After giving them the serial number the guy said "not a problem". Had the parts in under a week with a new mainspring thrown in for good measure, no charge.

My Kahr CW45 which I bought used seems to have a problem with the slide stop popping out during use. I called Kahr. Spoke with a nice girl and gave her the serial number. She said "we can fix that!" Sent me a new slide stop and retaining clip no charge. Had it in under a week.

Good service is out there in the gun industry.

[FergusonTO35]

Overall the gun industry has provided me much better service than others.

[robroy]

I'd be afraid to ask for 2 screws thinking I might get screwed twice[smilie=1::roll:

[Ragnarok]

Ehh?....This why I got a stainless steel one and have never taken it apart.....

[Superfly]

My 2 rossies run just fine no complaints the 357 is damn sweet the 45 lc shoots damn good to.

[yooper]

Everybody seems to be assuming that the part he eventually receives will be the proper one. I wouldn't bet a dime on that.:wink:
yooper

[454PB]

I've been lucky so far, and haven't had any problems with my Puma...and I sure hope I don't!

I've read literally hundreds of praises about HiPoint customer service. Again, I have a HiPoint JCP 40 and no problems with it....yet.

[Calamity Jake]

All you had to do was get ahold of Steve at stevezguns.com

He would'ev had one shipped while your were on the phone.

[bear67]

Not dealing with a gun company, but a good story from a few years ago. While still a GC, I bought a lot of stuff from a local nut, bolt and screw supply house with stores in 3 local towns. They had a very dark complected counterman by the name of Mohamed who was so lazy, the dead lice never fell from his stationary body. He would tell you he did not have something you wanted so he would not have to go back in the warehouse to fill your order. I ordered 250 un-plated 3/4 inch flat washers one day and he said that the store did not have them. I immediately told him that I knew there was a bulk bin with several hundred pounds and to go back and weigh me up 250. I complained to his boss and he said he was the only minority employee and he just put up with it.

Usually I waited until a caring counter person waited on me and one day I was getting my order filled and all the help at the front were busy. A good friend who owns an electric motor shop was waiting an Mohamed came out and asked if he could help him. My friend immediately said in a loud voice, "Yea, get me somebody who knows something and gives a rat's A**". The store got quiet and then all the customers and other sales reps broke out in giggles. He finally did something to get fired and is gone now.

Customer service at supply houses, tractor dealers, auto parts houses and even manufacturers has gone to pot and often times it is some young buck who just does not give a ____(you all know how to fill in the blank).

[Deep Six]

I'd say you did good since you got what you wanted. I sent back a brand new R92 44 mag with a factory-bent barrel. 4 months later they sent me back a new gun (different SN) that also has a factory-bent barrel, and worse bluing to boot. I'm afraid to send this one back - no telling what I may receive.

[44 centerfire]

Had similar experience to Buckshot with my Rossi 92......the muzzle end barrel band screw broke off half of the head trying to remove it. The screw at the end of the barrel bent completly over because the cartidge tube worked it's way out past the barrel before I caught it. So I need two screws and called Rossi....they referred me too one of two factory representatives....M&M Gunsmithing or Steves Guns. Called M&M and he said he can't get the stud that goes into the barrel indention and couldn't help me....HUH. But he had the barrel band screw. I said I would like to get both from the same supplier. I e-mailed Steves Gunz and got no reply....

So a month later I called Rossi again and got some youngster that asked for the serial # MO337xx and he asked what was the importer was and cal......44 mag model 65 Interarms Alexandra, Va. I bought new in the 90s. He said that I can't get parts for that gun. I said I read on the web some expert said that all the Rossi screws were the same, regardless of importer and that I would take a chance on the screws.

So he said he would have to go talk to someone else....a while later he came back and said he could supply...one screw was $1.67 and the stud screw was $2.77 or so. Now I am getting somewhere. I asked if you could put them in an envelope and send them HAHA! He said shipping would be $8.87. At this point I said let's do it.......week later got the screws that shipping label that came from Braztech....huh. Well, I'm not complaining anymore as I put the screws in as they both fit.

As far as the cartridge tube backing out.....can't find my steel gong with snow drifts higher than me.............ENOUGH SNOW ALREADY....

Somewhat happy here in northern Indiana........44 centerfire

[Tackleberry41]

I am just trying to figure out what sort of business model a company like Rossi uses. You would think they would go out of business. They dont seem to bother making anything right in the first place, only luck to get a decent gun. Stuff like fasteners are all cheap and substandard. Then if you need something fixed their customer service is terrible.

One would think their reputation would be so widely known that few dealers would even stock their products. That and they would run out of people willing to buy anything they sell. I cant imagine myself buying anything that said Rossi on it again. Maybe at a yard sale, for parts or a barrel.

Only thing I can figure is its for laundering drug money, or a write off on taxes.

[BattleRife]

Thoroughly enjoyed reading Buckshot's post as I went through something rather similar a year ago. My brother's M92 had an action screw back out and get lost all on its own. I dealt with less stupidity but more run around, but eventually got what I needed, and learned a crucial secret along the way.

SO LISTEN UP EVERYONE, HERE IS THE SECRET TO IMPROVING YOUR CHANCES WITH A BROKEN LSI IMPORT ROSSI...

The authorized service depot for LSI while they were importing was an outfit in Oklahoma called Sportsworld Tulsa. They still maintain a pipeline to Rossi and get parts on a regular basis. And they are more than willing to help, even shipping my screws internationally for next to nothing. And yes, the screw I got was the correct one.

[William Yanda]

But what number would the second one be?:roll:

68.5.......Can't you see it in the numbered drawing?

[HeavyMetal]

I got one of those deals as well, I bought a 28 gauge Mossberg Silver Reserve in 08 shot it some and had it devlop a glitch it wouldn't open and then it opened oddly and then it wouldn't open and if ya shook it ya got a small rattle, LOL!

Let it set for a few months figuring the firing pins had broken, "heard" they had a problem with being brittle.

One day I figured I'd take it apart and see what was really wrong. Oddly the problem came and went as I was taking the barrel on and opening and closing the barrel on the reciever.

Finally I detected an unusual movement from the extractor and realized the screw that holds it on the barrel was actually stripped and allowing the little screw to move in and out of it's threaded hole tying up the gun when you tried to open it.

Once the screw was removed the problem completely vanished and the little 28 gauge once again performed very well, ya just didn't tip the barrel up to far or the extractor would come out, LOL!

Now we get to the good part!!

I call mossberg in 2011, january to be exact and am told I can get a replacement part, hole was stripped as well but they would need a serial number off the gun. Need to get gun from safe to get number so I was provided with an E mail address to send the required information in to recieve the parts.

E mail was sent, a call was made to confirm it was recieved, which it was and the waiting started.

A call was made in May an E mail sent in July, another in Sept again in Jan 2012 and the last time in May of 2012.

Never got parts they never shipped them because they were having a hard time finding them????, LOL!

Still shooting the 28 just being careful not to lose the part, not hard as I am the only one shooting it, some day I'll get my shop back and I will mill a small slot in the extractor tang and install a small set screw or pin to limit travel so it won't come out.

A simple fix the factory should have made instead of use a threaded hole drilled and tapped into .062 thickness steel, all of two threads from what I could see!

A bad idea that was never fixed, and I am still waiting for the parts, LOL!

Got tired of waiting, got tired of asking, and pretty much stopped wondering a long time ago if a gun manufacturer would honor a warranty because they won't.

Not just Braztech, or Remlin or S&W pretty much most of them are hit and miss and so all ya can do is call and hope for the best.

HM

[jh45gun]

On the other hand I had an action screw for one of the guide rails not tighten up the guide rail was stripped. They replaced the guide rail and sent it back and it has been fine ever since.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I quit Bothering companies a long time ago[smilie=b: Buckshot has a lot more patience than I [smilie=1:

A lot easier to go to a friend with a small machine shop In my findings...Brazil ??? what is a Brazil[smilie=1:

[FergusonTO35]

Ruger and Henry took good care of me the few times I needed them. I currently have guns at Kahr and S&W so we shall see how that works out.

[runfiverun]

might be time to point this out.

Taurus is now in charge of rossi.
rossi is no longer a company just a name.
this is a Taurus problem not a rossi problem.
when Taurus took over rossi i immediately quit buying their lever guns.
too bad too i have about 15 of them [some Winchester and some rossi] and would really like to have a few more model 92's.

[Buckshot]

............I haven't gotten my screw from Braztech yet (Brent DID say it would be 10 days / 2 weeks). Maybe it ships from Brazil? In any event and update is that the hammer screw threads are NOT M5 x .050, but M4.5 x .050. Both are metric fine and I'm not sure if the M4.5 version is a 'Special' fine thread or not (like #8-44 is a special thread) but I no speekee metric so real good :-) So after the OD over the threads showing as 4.4mm I ASSUMED it was M5. I now have 2 M5x.050 taps and a die, which I'll probably die before I ever use. After finding out they were a trifle bulgy in the OD dept I checked my Machinery's Handbook, and danged if there isn't a M4.5 OD with a .050 (half millimeter) pitch. So now I have 2 taps and a die on the way in the M4.5x0.50 metric flavor. Assuming 25mm to the inch, that's a 50 tpi pitch which is pretty darn fine. While the action wall isn't very thick, but a 32 tpi thread would have certainly added some beef. Oh well.

I forgot to mention while I was on the phone with Brent (the 2nd and successful time) I asked why there was a "PARTS & ACCESSORIES) tag to click on, but there were no parts. Just rifle cases, scope mounts, etc? I suggested it would probably delete a lot of their workload if a person was able to simply access that, click on the parts they needed, pay via CC and be on their way. He made noises like they were supposed to be working toward that. By his tone of voice (lack of enthusiasm) there may have been a memo about something like that, possibly circulated a couple years ago. I should add that both of my Rossi Lever guns have worked well and internally were not bad at all. My rifle in 45 Colt has rather shallow grooves (.446" x .450") so I have to treat it like a Micro-Gruv Marlin, which means cast'em HARD and FAT. My round barreled carbine on 38/357 has no such issue and has been great from day one. Both have the common over energetic ejector spring, but those are also both being addressed.

I also have a Winchester (Miroku) M92 in 45 Colt (24" round barrel) and I was wanting to pick up a couple consumable parts for it to have on hand. The 1892's are no longer listed on the Winchester parts page as models they carry parts for??? So I went to GPC and discovered who has all the parts :-) So I ordered a firing pin, a couple ejector springs and a few other small things from them.

...............Buckshot

[Harter66]

Well this is very depressing to me , having aquired 1 just in time for a zillion bad press posts to show up.


Savage , I called for a maual and to see if I could track down a manufature date , Late in 65' and a new manual arrived 3 days later.

Mossburg I sent them a letter reguarding a forest camo turkey gun w/the inside of the bore rather coursely powder coated I guess. My boy shot it 3 yrs for dove ,ducks and geese . it went down the road 12 yr ago still waiting.....

TC ,I emailed for a lock part on a 2nd hand Hawken and a manual on Sunday both The part and manual were in the mail box Wednesday .

Of course those encounters were 10-12 yr ago.

[dragon813gt]

Only manufacturer I had to send a gun back to was CZ. It was extremely tough to break open. Made a call and had a return tag issued in about ten minutes. They replaced the locking block in short order. Now if FedEx hadn't screwed up the delivery I would have had it back in about a week and half. It eventually showed up about a week and half after CZ shipped it. They left a couple thousand dollar shotgun sitting on my front porch even though a signature was required.

[T-Man]

I agree with the Braztech issue. Due to the fact that my daughters put their little demonic heads together and bought a matching pair of the 92 versions in 357mag and set about taking the things apart. Then after various unsuccessful attempts at reassembly, they boxed the things up and come running to daddy with tears and pigtails in tow. Unaware of what I was taking possession of, they shared a moment of success that is usually reserved for Summons Servers when I reached out for it and took it in hand. Never again. Not ever. They had managed to lose about half the small screws. I thought, hey, a quick trip to my gun room, grabbing my Winchester screw box of itemized screws and gizmo's would solve my problems....Anyhow, this has set me on an endeavor to search for, accumulate, and stock, all those ************* metric parts associated with such monstrosities typically referred to as 'firearms' these days. Never mind that they are put together out of parts stamped in China, who then boxesthem up and ships them off to Brazil. Usually in some obscure little Amazonian village with the name that is totally beyond any normal American's ability to speak. Then these industrious little folks, who are paid by the piece, start slamming the things together. Then off to a bigger city for final finish. If such is what the finish on the ungodly things can be called. I say this with the various rifles and handguns that adorn my collection in mind. For example...my pre-64 model 70's and that deep, rich blue that Winchester had back in the day. Then the milky bluing on my S&W 29 44mag....that Oh So Wonderful finish that had the milky reflection and depth that just made one slobber. Then the charcoal bluing on my 1911's and single action 45's, 44/40's... put together by Colt. The stuff dreams were made of. comparing the finishes...well...you know where that ends up. Anyway, since the things seem to be here to stay, it might be a good idea to source and stock for sale the various screws and odd and end parts one can find . Put together a website and sell them to the unwitting folks who buy these hideous mock ups of Winchesters

[jmort]

Funny. The Rossi M92s make most people very happy some some people very sad. Very strong action. A little TLC and the guns will run. And again, you are a funny guy. Best post I have read for a while even if I disagree with your assessment. BTW Rossi Screws For You web site sounds like a winner. If your girls are going to keep their guns, sounds like you have two Angelic keepers (the daughters, not the guns), get the replacement/upgrade parts from Steve's Gunzs and his DVD to keep your sanity.

[Bullshop Junior]

I love my rossi. I made the broken screw I needed for mine with a three corner file and a welder...

[T-Man]

Funny. The Rossi M92s make most people very happy some some people very sad. Very strong action. A little TLC and the guns will run. And again, you are a funny guy. Best post I have read for a while even if I disagree with your assessment. BTW Rossi Screws For You web site sounds like a winner. If your girls are going to keep their guns, sounds like you have two Angelic keepers (the daughters, not the guns), get the replacement/upgrade parts from Steve's Gunzs and his DVD to keep your sanity.

Thanks for the heads-up! I love my little girls dearly, the little heathens they are. They now have their own reloading room. I recently traded a 45/70 for a Lee LoadMaster so they could load their own 5.56 ammo for their AR's I built them for Christmas this past year. Complete with Pink Camo. They had me breaking out my air brush and painting the LoadMaster to match it. Only freaking Pink Camo LoadMaster I have ever seen. Don't want to see another one, either

[T-Man]

I will say this, even though it is out of context for this discussion. I finally managed to get the things back up and running. They have also managed to deplete my entire stock of .357 Mag ammo that I had lovingly crafted to use in my Pythons. I mean, how can you say no to your baby's, right? Being a retired Master Sargent seems to have rubbed off on them somewhere along the line. The little creatures are serious run and gunners. They work outstanding together as a tactical team. I wouldn't want to face them in a stand up gun fight even at 13 and 14 years of age respectively today. The oldest is now doing the Hanging Upside Down In The Door Way Blindfolded trick and field stripping her weapons and reassembling them for time. She's at 53 seconds on her AR....and getting better

[Buckshot]

...........Since I hadn't yet received my hammer screw (ordered on 2-24) I decided I'd call. I got ahold of a guy and told him what I needed. I didn't mention I'd called previously as I just wanted to see where we'd go. He asked for the serial number, so at that point I launched into my tale of woe. I was polite but did inject a minor bit of sarcastic weariness in my voice as I went through it all.

He asked me to spell my last name, and then found the order on his computer. It hadn't been billed (which I knew from checking my statement). They had my CC number wrong, and they had my phone number wrong so they couldn't call. However THIS time it went without a hitch. He did the work with me on line, confirmed the sale and said it would ship on Monday at the latest.

I also asked him about buying parts on line, and why did they have a "Parts and Accessories" button to click but no parts were available? He said that yes it would be nice and that they were in fact working on getting such a thing set up now. He said there seemed to be a couple bugs being worked out like ordering and then inventory updating. I said maybe they were using the same software outfit the gov't used to implement obamacare? He laughed and said that had been mentioned before. So anyway I know it's a done deal now.

I'd mentioned that the thread for that screw was a metric M4.5 x 0.50. Well so are the 2 lifter screws, and I now have Taper and plug taps in that pitch. The first couple of threads in he action wall for that hammer screw were boogered, but are now fine.

............Buckshop