mouse fart 357

[bigted]

I have been toying with the idea of making up some 357 lite loads using unique or trail boss. I am going to case up some 125 grain LEE boolits and prolly shoot em tumble lubed as I am hoping to move em very slow and quiet.

any ideas or am I trying to reinvent the wheel?

slow and very quiet is the goal

[Hickok]

I wonder if a person could use Trail Boss powder to get some really light loads?

[Outpost75]

Are you shooting these in a rifle or a handgun?

For a low noise load in my .357 rifles I use a soft lead, 200-grain flatnosed, plainbased bullet in .38 Special brass with 2.5 grains of Bullseye.

You can watch the bullet in flight and it is accurate to 100 yards, like a CB cap on steroids.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Here is a link to another thread about this.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?212551-Light-loads-in-38-spl&highlight=lite+load
to reiterate in my post, in that thread.
"There is a great article in "The NRA handloaders guide" C1969
"Minimum Loads in handguns" by William Dresser."

[cbrick]

SAECO 150 PB, 5.0 gr Trail Boss, CCI standard small pistol primer, 357 brass.

I tested both stick-on WW +2% Sn @ 6 BHN and clip-on WW +2% Sn @ 12 BHN. The stick-on @ 1012 fps and the clip-on @ 970 fps. Both alloys shot 2 inch groups at 100 yards in a Marlin 357 with the clip-on alloy shooting it's group 3-4 inches higher.

Great plinking load that shoots just about like shooting a 22 rimfire.

Rick

[bigted]

handgun ... to wit ... Ruger GP-100 6" barrel.

good post reference however I did not read about either powders ... unique or trail boss. guess I will just piddle with them to see if I cant stick a boolit ... never did that afor!

I am moving back to America this spring and would like some lite and quiet squirrel loads ... as well as garbage eatin dogs ... wild raging field mice ... howling and snarling grouse ... the ever frightening and dangerous quail ... you get the picture.

I aim to experiment with these two powders and will post my findings here as they develop. if anyone wish's to join in with the fun I would be jazzed to read about your progress as well.

[GP100man]

round ball seated flush with case , ya can finger in some lube if ya wanna.

I use 2gr. of CLAYS, very quite .

The problem with low pressure loads is setting the case back so the primer gets reseated & pressures this low the less brg surface the better.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

not 357 but I have been playing with 44mag in a Super black hawk with .440 round balls roll them in liquid alox , I flare the case load with 2gr tightwad set ball on and seat crimp the ball so it is in just past the equator they look kind of funny but it shoots , I am thinking of making up a bunch and getting them on paper this weekend

if you have a problem with primers backing out make a few cases with a file cut across the head , then drill out the flash channel a little bigger , on rifle cases like 30-06 I went to 1/8" a lot of the same things apply from the sticky mouse fart loads in 30-06 , this will also help get slower powders like unique to burn with tiny charges

[bigted]

not 357 but I have been playing with 44mag in a Super black hawk with .440 round balls roll them in liquid alox , I flare the case load with 2gr tightwad set ball on and seat crimp the ball so it is in just past the equator they look kind of funny but it shoots , I am thinking of making up a bunch and getting them on paper this weekend

if you have a problem with primers backing out make a few cases with a file cut across the head , then drill out the flash channel a little bigger , on rifle cases like 30-06 I went to 1/8" a lot of the same things apply from the sticky mouse fart loads in 30-06 , this will also help get slower powders like unique to burn with tiny charges

now that tip ... drillin the primer hole out ... was worth this entire post!! :drinks: ... thanks.

[357mags]

Why not load 38spl's?

[shooting on a shoestring]

In your experimenting give deep seating a try with tiny charges of powder. The deep seating will confine the powder and let it light and burn well, but the tiny charge or really the small space for powder will result in a higher expansion ratio and less pressure at the muzzle, so quieter as well. I'll bet you can get in 500 feet per second range with some reasonable velocity deviations. To get the same thing but seated out, use filler like cream of wheat.

[pal82]

Trail boss is my go to powder for anything slow. If you want to use published load data, trim cases down to 38 long colt length (1.026") and use 2.0 gr of trail boss over your 125 lee for 622 f/s. I've used 3.0 gr in 38 special for around 700 f/s.

The only time I downloaded trail boss below listed starting levels was for super slow fire lapping boolits in my 44 special. I can't remember how much powder I used, but they were moving very slow. If I were to guess, well under 600 f/s. I must have been very close to sticking a boolit in the barrel. The 250 gr keith slug left the gun with a muted "pop" and recoil that made me giggle.

You could ask the fire lapping crowd how slow you can go with 357 magnum brass.

[tazman]

This makes me think of 38 special wadcutters only with less powder.
I wonder just how slow you can go.

In your experimenting give deep seating a try with tiny charges of powder. The deep seating will confine the powder and let it light and burn well, but the tiny charge or really the small space for powder will result in a higher expansion ratio and less pressure at the muzzle, so quieter as well. I'll bet you can get in 500 feet per second range with some reasonable velocity deviations. To get the same thing but seated out, use filler like cream of wheat.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok how about something that only needs to dispatch a Raccoon at say 20 feet. It needs to be extra quiet and not go through walls lol. I have a problem with them getting in m garage and much to my amazement they do not like to be handled as a matter of fact they get down right ornery lol. I have a .22 Rifle and a Marlin .38Sp/.357 Mag. So single loading for this purpose is fine.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

it is going to be hard to beat a remingtion Cbee for wuet and effective on coon in the garage , and they don't penetrate through a 2x4 this is what i use on varmint in my garage

CCI quite do penitrate a 2x4 but are as quiet

I have taken 30-30 and 30-06 with little 90gr swc down to a gr tightwad the fastest burning powder i could find and both were too loud to be comfortable shooting them in a garage in town unless you happened t have good cover noise like the air compressor running but 90gr going 800 ish fps will go right though garage walls they blow through a 2x4 with authority.


as much as I like my guns, traps can be your friend

newtons 2nd law will get you in trouble , when you get a heavier object moving it takes a lot more outside force to stop it

not going through walls it hard almost everything that won't be at risk for getting stuck in the barrel will go through a sheet of 1/2 osb and some siding , it would be easier if you sand bagged the first 18 inches of your garage walls

[rhead]

This makes me think of 38 special wadcutters only with less powder.
I wonder just how slow you can go.

Using a pre safety Rossi I once missed charging a round with powder. Luckily i noticed the apparent misfire and checked the lee 166 SWC was lodged about six inched from the muzzle. I was using Win. small pistol primers and pickup range brass. boolit was sized .358 bore slugged .357 you will be able to go well below usable.

[jameslovesjammie]

Why not load 38spl's?

Why not load .38 Short Colt's? It would be like using .22 short in a .22 LR.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

now that tip ... drillin the primer hole out ... was worth this entire post!! :drinks: ... thanks.

the reason you mark the cases with a file cut is because you never want to run full pressure loads in them again , just to be clear

[bigted]

got that from other cases ive done the same to ... but thankyou for the warning ... cant imagine what would happen with a full mag load in a case that had the primer hole enlarged ... wouldn't be a nice outcome tho im bettin.

[BCB]

I have shot boolit weights from 148-170+ using Trail Boss...

Charges of 3.5-5.0 grains gave velocities in the 600-700 fps range from a 6" Security-Six...

Fairly good accuracy but only to 20 yards and not any farther...

Good-luck...BCB

[bigted]

just taken a break from this drudgery of loading and shooting to make the ultimate sacrifice of reporting back with my progress so far ... what a guy huh?

I did try the "seating deep" thing but the case bulged with them deeper then much deeper then normal.

the cases used were all winchester 357 mag cases full length sized and primed with small pistol mag primers ... CCI. I desire the long cases as I do not want to get any gas rings on my chambers nor want to need to clean the grease ring off the cylinders 1/2 way up the walls. anyway I like the looks of the longer loaded cases in the cylinder

2.2 grain trail boss behind some HSM 158 grain plated boolits = 2 outta 5 stuck in the barrel.

2.2 grain trail boss behind some 125 grain LEE lead cast here in the yard = nice load but a bit loud for my taste ... seem accurate enough.

2.6 grain unique behind the same 125 lee's = very nice load. quiet and seem accurate ... no sticking in the barrel.

the LEE boolits were cast and after cooling I tumble lubed them in a small Tupperware then set out in a tin pie plate to dry after "cooking" in the oven at 200 degrees for 5 min. then cooling and allow to set overnight.

these loaded a lot nicer after I pushed them thru a .358 LEE push thru die after lubing and drying.

all in all for now the UNIQUE loads of 2.6 grains or dipped with the smallest LEE dipper I have being a .3 CC dipper. these load very fast after all is layed out and the shooting goes way too fast.

this is way too much fun and now I need to cast more boolits so the fun may continue. DANG ... more loading and shooting ... sucks to be me ... but im gonna bear up under it.

[detox]

2.6 grain unique behind the same 125 lee's = very nice load. quiet and seem accurate ... no sticking in the barrel.


Good info. Have you ever tried HOT GLUE bullets? These are powered by just the primer (magnum usually). Its a fun experiment

[fattires]

I have used 2.8gr bullseye with a lee 105gr swc in 357 cases for a nice light load. I need to load up some more of these.

[bigted]

years ago ... in a place I no longer talk about ... we used some sorta glue/plastic bullets and fired them inside at ...[well I wont say exactly what we shot at for fear they be young'uns reading]. no damage to anything or anyone and they also were pushed by magnum primers.

man I haven't thought about them for too many years ... thanks for triggering a jaunt down memory lane.

[blademasterii]

Just get one of these then run whatever your range ammo is. http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn276/blademasterii/th_20140112_105738.jpg (http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn276/blademasterii/20140112_105738.mp4)

[Lonegun1894]

I was wanting to finish reading the rest of this thread before I posted again, but Detox hit on something I remembered at work today. I have loaded a .38Spl case with a primer and then just pushed the case mouth into a wax disk (used to be crayons) about half an inch thick to end up with a wax WC. This was very quiet, and accurate to about 15-20yds in my 4" Ruger Security Six, and still had enough power to kill rats off my tree and fence. However, when I tried it against a piece of cardboard at 30-35yds, it left a small dent but did not punch a hole. At 50yds, not even a dent or other mark on the cardboard, and I know I hit due to watching the wax bullet in flight. I don't know what the velocity is, but it is slow enough to watch in flight out of this 4" revolver. I tried glue bullets a while back, but failed to keep any notes, and mostly tried them in a 5.5" .44 SBH and a .44 10" Contender, and when loaded with just a primer, they all got stuck in the barrel without a single glue bullet exiting, so I can't comment on accuracy or effect on target.

[bangerjim]

years ago ... in a place I no longer talk about ... we used some sorta glue/plastic bullets and fired them inside at ...[well I wont say exactly what we shot at for fear they be young'uns reading]. no damage to anything or anyone and they also were pushed by magnum primers.



man I haven't thought about them for too many years ... thanks for triggering a jaunt down memory lane.

I CAST and shoot HMG boolits all the time. Use your standard mold. Lube it with PAM and coolit with an ice cube. No......it does NOT ruin your precious molds as some have bitched about. Just clean up afterwards.

I have had excellent success with 38SPL and 45LC's in HMG. I use standard primers, DO NOT drill out the flash hole (runis the brass) and about 1gn of fast powder with wadding holding the powder against the primer.

banger

[bigted]

Badger ... the HMG i am guessing is from a hot glue gun? i dont know if i ever knew what the bullets outta plastic like substance were that we used but they were propelled with nothing but a magnum primer. lots of times we could reuse them if they were undamaged and never sized a case ... just reprimed and shoved em in the case and shot em. wish things were a little more in focus back then ... would like to remember a bit more about the bullets ... heck i cant even remember who brought em. we did have a ball with em tho.

the pam hint is a good one and if i can aquire a glue gun i may cast a few and try em in my GP-100 6 inch barrel. do they leave any residue in the bore?

naa didnt and wont drill my cases ... did that with another project and now i have brass that i should throw away so as to keep em from mixin in with my regular brass.

[bangerjim]

Badger ... the HMG i am guessing is from a hot glue gun? i dont know if i ever knew what the bullets outta plastic like substance were that we used but they were propelled with nothing but a magnum primer. lots of times we could reuse them if they were undamaged and never sized a case ... just reprimed and shoved em in the case and shot em. wish things were a little more in focus back then ... would like to remember a bit more about the bullets ... heck i cant even remember who brought em. we did have a ball with em tho.

the pam hint is a good one and if i can aquire a glue gun i may cast a few and try em in my GP-100 6 inch barrel. do they leave any residue in the bore?

naa didnt and wont drill my cases ... did that with another project and now i have brass that i should throw away so as to keep em from mixin in with my regular brass.

Only gun I have ever found HMG "strands" in is my 9mm. They are dry and not sicky...just come out with the brass brush. But all others are clean.....except normal powder stuff. Loading VERY light loads tends to make most powders burn a bit dirtier than normal.

But they are fun and quiet. Other places talk of drilling the flash holes to prevent primer back-uut. I have NEVER had them back out...and is only a concern in revolvers anyway. A total waste of good brass.

I use e3 for most of the loads. 1gn is enough! I also "tumble lube" them in mica powder right after dropping out of the mold. Keeps them from sticking to each other later.


Make sure you get a GOOD quality gun, NOT the one you have to push the stick thru with your thumb. Get one that is trigger operated. HF has one for a decent $$. You are injection molding these things so you need a good amount of pressure behind the hot liquid glue.

Have fun!

banger

[bigted]

rite on. gonna have to try this for sure. I will get a good hot glue gun but the question still stands ... what is HMG? ... is this the glue stick type?

[bigted]

well got the hot glue gun. went and found my 125 grain Lee mold ... hot glued a boolit in it ... after several casts I could not wait any longer sooo ... I caped 6 38 spcl's with mag primers and thumbed in these little glue boolits ... loaded em in my 1861 colt with the conversion cylinder and cocked the hammer to see if they would stick in the barrel ... no sticking and the wallop they garnered on the bed sheet was cool ... def reminded me of times past and I bet they would sting just as bad as what we used back when. what a hoot. these are a fun treatment for a bore old feller. havnt done an accuracy test yet but for instinct shooting ... they are the bizz nizz. thanks for the hint ... had completely forgotten about these fun loads ... and QUIET ... 8-)

ANOTHER COOL FACTOR ... I can pick em up and reload the same pills. don't know how many times they will load but this I did not expect.

[Bzcraig]

3gr of Trail Boss in 38spl brass but wouldn't call it quiet, not nearly as loud as a case full of 4227 or 2400 in 357. I wouldn't be afraid to try the same 3gr in 357 brass either just haven't yet. It's out of my GP100 3" with the Lee 105 swc.

[2wheelDuke]

I like the Ranch dog 100gr .380 boolit for light .38 loads. Accurate enough to hit bowling pins at 50 yards. I don't recall the load data, but the recoil was basically nothing in a 4" revolver. It was really nothing in a marlin carbine. Trail Boss is very soft with by usual 158gr TL swc's too.

[rintinglen]

I have a 75 grain 358-101 mold that I played around with looking for a cat's sneeze 38 load 25 years ago. From a 4 inch barrel, I found that I could go as low as 2.0 grains of Bullseye, but it still was pretty noisy. By the time I got down to quiet levels, I was sticking boolits in the bore. I never did get the noise level down to an acceptable urban level.
A 22 short Standard Velocity from a rifle is the quietest round I have found.