Lee-menting without proper stuff?

[tommag]

I received a Lee .22 Bator mold and want to fix it up a bit. It doesn't want to release and I have a hard time getting the blocks aligned, resulting in a flange on some of the bases. It fills out okay when the temp is high enough to frost the boolits, but would like to run a lower temp.

Since I live a ways from town, and don't want to wait for mail order, would these items be an acceptable substitution?

Using Napa wet graphite spray or the dry graphite powder instead of mold release from Midway.

Using a concrete nail sharpened with a stone instead of a carbide scribe.(for opening the vent-lines) I don't know the hardness of these nails, but they are pretty hard.

The mold has some burrs on the edge of the cavities, but are only visible when I use my 30x jewelers loup. (My eyes are not as good as they used to be.) I am a bit nervous about taking an Exacto knife to the mold. I've never been much good at precision work. Are my fears overblown?

Thanks in advance.
Tom

[Ben]

An exacto knife is what I use with a magnification loop that allows me to see very fine detail on the mold edges. I'd steer clear of the concrete nail idea.

Ben

[38 Super Auto]

I have improved the venting on several Lee molds. If you proceed slowly with whatever tool you use - scribe or exacto knife, I think you'll be OK. IF you go slowly, I think it is easier to follow the arcs that are machined into the faces.

I have run into places where there appear to be two sets of arcs machined into mold faces.

If you use mold release, I suggest applying it before you enlarge vent lines.

[Buckshot]

I received a Lee .22 Bator mold and want to fix it up a bit. It doesn't want to release and I have a hard time getting the blocks aligned, resulting in a flange on some of the bases. It fills out okay when the temp is high enough to frost the boolits, but would like to run a lower temp.

First thing you need to do, seriously, is get some Bullplate lube. I am absolutely amazed in how this stuff eases the operation of Lee moulds. I'd get some before casting another boolit with the mould. Use it on the alignment surfaces, and on top of the blocks and underside of the sprueplate.

Since I live a ways from town, and don't want to wait for mail order, would these items be an acceptable substitution?

Using Napa wet graphite spray or the dry graphite powder instead of mold release from Midway.

I wouldn't use any spray release stuff. Lightly smoke the cavity. Basicly just discolor it as it doesn't have to be black with soot.

Using a concrete nail sharpened with a stone instead of a carbide scribe.(for opening the vent-lines) I don't know the hardness of these nails, but they are pretty hard.

Try the Bullplate lube and smoking the cavities first.

The mold has some burrs on the edge of the cavities, but are only visible when I use my 30x jewelers loup. (My eyes are not as good as they used to be.) I am a bit nervous about taking an Exacto knife to the mold. I've never been much good at precision work. Are my fears overblown?

Get an ink eraser. One of the hard ones (do they still make ink erasers :-)). Run it lightly along the edge of the cavity. Also a major improvement can be made by lapping the cavities with toothpaste. Cast a slug in each cavity and let cool. Take a small allen wranch and cut the short leg off and then dill a hole in the base of the Boolits . The hole should be just smaller then the allen wrench.

Tap the allen wrench into the hole. Open the blocks and put in some toothpaste. Using a slow speed with a drill motor run the slug clockwise a bit, then reverse. Ditto the 2nd cavity. Clean the blocks, smoke'em and try casting. Your problems should be cured.

Thanks in advance.
Tom

..................Buckshot

[Dale53]

Tom;
Buckshot just gave you some excellent and detailed advice...

Dale53

[Red River Rick]

Indeed, Buckshot's advice is probably some of the best you'll get.

However; should all of the above remedies fail, cast yourself about 20 of the best bullets you can. Work up an accurate load so that you're shooting well at say, 50 yards. Take that "LEE" mold and stand it on top of a fence post. Then try to reinsert one bullet into each cavity.......at about 2000 fps. That'll remove all burrs and help to realign the mould blocks.

After your finished, return the mould to "LEE" for warranty.

RRR

[IcerUSA]

If you have one you can use a sharpening stone to lightly polish the burrs off also, just make sure that it covers the width of the cavity and use the tooth paste or some baking soda mixed with a little water to make a paste .

Keith

[EDK]

I just lapped the 44 wadcutter from GLL. I took it to work with a handful of better boolits from the mould, found one that fit the cavity pretty well, drilled a hole and inserted a 3/16 tap and used a tap handle to turn it. I had scrounged some ultra fine valve lapping compound from the fitters. Started out with handles loose and then gradually tightened them up. Repeated on the rest of the cavities to about 95% of what I wanted in the finish. Used the next new boolits to lap 2 cavities with the same one, then three with the same one, and so forth until 1 boolit was used on all six and I couldn't feel any cutting. The cavities sure look nice and shiney and I'll try to cast some soon, but it's a little cold and sloppy as we lose the snow from last weekend.

Hey Rick Since you're feeling frisky..what diameter paper patch mould do you want to make for my 50/90 Shiloh? Various authorities are saying anywhere from 490 to 500+. I've been shooting a few of the 44s while I'm thinking.

:Fire::

[Woodwrkr]

If you are nervous about some of the other recommended methods for getting rid of the burrs, I just last week deburred my Lee 452-230-TC using a small block of hardwood, giving the edges of the cavity a good rubbing (burnishing is the technical term) with the wood block doing essentially the same thing the ink eraser will do, breaking off the burrs at their root leaving a smooth corner at the edges of the cavity with open vent lines.

I used the mold for the first time Monday (lets not discuss my inept casting techniques) and if the boolits didn't fall out of the mold by themselves, one or two taps on the hinge bolt released them.

[tommag]

..................Buckshot

I'll try the eraser trick. I have Bullshop's lube and use it. I was wondering about the graphite to fill in low spots and highlite the burrs in the Lee-menting method, as well as making the vent-lines easier to see for enlarging.

Red River Rick, I'm not so sure about the high-speed insertion method. I think the folks at Lee would get a kick out of any explanation I sent, though. I have tried that method on chronographs before and couldn't detect any appreciable improvement.:confused:

[MTWeatherman]

Tommag:

Since I suspect that it was my post on Sure-Fire Lee-Menting that prompted your post, a few comments are in order.

I follow that technique with every new Lee mould I get. I've picked up a number of Lee moulds since that 2004 post...other than casting a few bullets for polishing I don't use any Lee until after the described full procedure. I feel the little extra work is invariably saved in the long term. Yes, you might get a perfectly usable Lee. However, I like to be assured that the mould will work from the start and that Lee-Menting (little more than an hour total effort) has proved to be a guarantee of that. Based on reports on this board, I'm fully aware that Lee is capable of creating a mould that can't be fixed. However, I've yet to receive one.

That said, depending on the equipment you have and the particular mould issue you are dealing with, you may not wish to do the full Lee-Ment or consider it overkill. It should be mentioned that problems lie primarily with the one and two cavity moulds due to poor quality control. It would appear that far fewer find problems with the six cavity. Most of my mould are one and two-cavity. They deliver all the production I need.

The purpose of opening vent lines is to improve bullet fillout. If your mould produces well filled out bullets you may wish to avoid this step. However, with heavy use on the poorly aligned one and two cavities, the soft aluminum mould faces tend to wear down and the shallow vent lines may disappear. Fillout problems may then appear. The time to open up the vent lines is when the mould is new. Using the vent lines as guides makes the job much easier. A nail does not have the narrow, sharp, durable point necessary. As already mentioned, an Exacto knife, or perhaps a box cutter type utility knife would likely work just as well as a carbide scribe if care is used.

The graphite spray (and wet is what is needed...suspect he NAPA variety would work perfectly well) is part of the process of mould polishing. Polishing is the essential step to solve bullet release issues. Most can get by perfectly well by simply polishing the mould without the spray. However, the graphite spray goes a long way toward locating problems in the mould cavity and since I've got it...I use it. I had one Lee that I likely would never have fixed without it. Lee somehow managed to leave a relatively deep machine mark on the base of a driving band...causing the bullet to stick. The graphite filled the depression and solved the problem...have cast many bullets in it since then and the graphite is still there doing its job.

My personal preference is to never use graphite spray or smoke to solve release issues on any mould. When you do so, you decrease bullet diameter and my experience with Lee is that invariably, while my Lees are within specifications, they are minimum sized. Without exception, I've solved those issues by polishing the mould (and yes I've done so with iron moulds as well...mainly for degreasing and cleaning). Instructions on how to do it are in that post. I do have that Bator mould and did polish it as advertised, however, will admit its pretty tricky to do on a .22 caliber. I went down to the local hardware store to get the smallest metal screw I could find to use on that bullet. I use Comet which is a very mild abrasive. However, others have had success with tootpaste and baking soda which are even milder. Unless those burrs you mentioned are major...polishing that mould will remove them. So, if you use the graphite spray, polish the mould afterward to deal with those burrs and remove most of the graphite. Any remaining graphite will fill in imperfections such as tool marks. If you don't intend to polish the mould, I wouldn't recommend the graphite.

[tommag]

Yes, it was your post on Lee-Menting that I read. I figured on doing all the stuff to the Bator mold to finish it up. Buckshot's suggestion of a slightly undersize hole coupled with an allen-wrench shaft driven in, seems like it would eliminate the tendency of a screw to bore in deeper than desired while polishing. That method might require several polishing boolits, though, in case the allen wrench slips.

The vent-grooves look pretty good, but the fill-out isn't that good without high temps. I think I had better get the exacto knife going on the grooves. Maybe the burrs on the edge of the cavities have something to do with that. My wife is picking up a typewriter eraser while she's in town today. Hopefully that will remove those burrs adequately.

BTW, Your location (central Mt) makes me wish I was there. I grew up in Chinook and really miss it. The largest brown trout I ever caught was in the creek that runs through Lewiston (Spring Creek?) right at 4.5 lbs on a #16 olive dunn. That was before you HAD TO HAVE an Orvis rod and a Sage reel to catch fish.

[MTWeatherman]

BTW, Your location (central Mt) makes me wish I was there. I grew up in Chinook and really miss it. The largest brown trout I ever caught was in the creek that runs through Lewiston (Spring Creek?) right at 4.5 lbs on a #16 olive dunn. That was before you HAD TO HAVE an Orvis rod and a Sage reel to catch fish.

I'm a bit west of central...Great Falls area rather than Lewistown. Grew up in the Flathead Valley before the population boom hit there...been here since '81.

I do my antelope hunting south of Chinook...close to the BearPaws. I'm gathering that you've been gone for awhile.

Yep, that'd be Spring Creek....in the news for the past three years due to PCB pollution showing up so was largely closed. Had a hard time locating the cause...finally discovered, believe it or not, it was the fish hatchery. Fish and Wildlife had unknowingy in years past used paint loaded with PCBs in the hatcheries raceways...they were the cause before they became the solution. A bit of irony there. Got that cleaned up and once again its a great fishery. Nice fish....sounds like you are a dedicated fly fisherman. Hope you get the chance to try it again...Orvis still not required.

As excelllent as the trout fishing is around here, I'm now a dedicated walleye fisherman....most of the trout I catch I pick up accidently while fishing for them. Exposed to mainly trout before my arrival here, but didn't take much to get me hooked on the walleye. The first fillet did that. I dedicate a good amount of time in the spring through fall to them. Spend some time up on Tiber Reservoir...fairly close to your former neck of the woods...at least by Montana distance standards.

Sounds like you're well on your way to tuning that Lee. Suspect you won't regret the time spent doing it....bullet release problems should be gone.

Good casting!

[tommag]

Yeah, walleyes are good eating. When I was a kid, Tiber was known for large trout. I used to fish the upper Milk River near Browning for cut-throats. Sometime about the mid-70's the Northern Pike started showing up there. The pike were good eating, but they ate up all the trout.

When I moved to Ca., I got nothing but disdain for fly-fishing with my old Heddon rod and my Johnson Magnetic reel. (line weight H) I have given up on Fly fishing, and use bait whenever I go out. To heck with the catch and release purists. Its hard to beat the "garden hackle" for catdhing fish.

Thanks for the info on Lee-menting.
Tom

[uncle joe]

[QUOTE=38 Super Auto;259600]I have improved the venting on several Lee molds. If you proceed slowly with whatever tool you use - scribe or exacto knife, I think you'll be OK. IF you go slowly, I think it is easier to follow the arcs that are machined into the faces.

if anyone you know has a dentist friend, old instruments they use on your teeth work great.