Swaging on the cheap

[odies dad]

I decided to make up a batch of .429 bullets this evening.
I started by casting up a pile of 40 cal bullets for my new 40S&W. I took some of the culls and used them as cores in spent 40 S&W cases. I seated the core at various depths and decided my favorite was flush with the case mouth.
I then used a 243Win bullet seating die with the stem removed as a point forming die. I ran them through a Lee .429 sizing die then cut a cannelure with on old C&H cannelure tool. Came in at 249gr.
loaded tham up over some unique in 44 mag cases.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL237/1413883/20418917/408851611.jpg

Need to wait for some warmer weather to try them out, but they sure look purdy.

[Cane_man]

those look great, report back on how they performed!

[beex215]

i was doing something similar. i used a 380 and put it through a 223 bullet seater to get the same results. then passed it through a 357 sizer. i dont have a 38spl or a 357 mag but just wanted to do it for fun.

i wonder what kind of combinations we can come up with.

[Utah Shooter]

So what are you guys using for the punch?

[odies dad]

I just used the punch that came with the Lee sizer.
An allen wrench was used to pop the shaped bullet out of the die if it needed it. Just took a tap with the allen wrench.

[Scootshop]

I like it. The Lee size dies are pretty handy and a real bargin.

[pretzelxx]

Hmmm.. this is very very interesting. I'll be waiting for your results!

[rbuck351]

A couple of years ago another guy on this forum came up with a similar plan using 40S&W cases to make a bullet for the 41mag. The main difference is he annealed the cases first, sized them to .410 then ran them into a 243 die set to make the jacket. Then he poured melted lead in the case, then smashed the top flat in his press with a flat plug in the die hole before the lead set hard. He sent me a bunch and they work pretty good. 269gr .410 for the 41 mag. I'm getting under 2" at 50yds and a case full of lil gun at 1200fps. Then he sent me a bunch of .358s made from 223cases but used a 22jet die for the ogive. These I haven't shot yet.

[Cane_man]

grade 8 bolts make good punches as well

[Ironduke]

Ok. What kind of pressures are we looking at here? I know the 44 and 41 magnums operate at up around 37k PSI or maybe a bit more. Will these bullets stand up to rifle pressures?

Specifically, here is my situation. I have a 475 cal rifle with a big case capacity. I have considered swaging bullets from 45 acp cases with a head diameter of .473. They should swage up to 474 or 475 pretty easy I would think. I am thinking a 458 cal boolit in the 350-400 gr range will be plenty, but even 300 gr .452 boolits might do well. If I need more jacket length, maybe I could cut off any 30-06/308/57mm Mauser family case since they all share the same head diameter of .473 (except the oddball Swede). I figure I should be able to form the nose with cut down belted magnum dies? What would you guys suggest?

But I am NOT interested in blowing up my rifle. If bullets formed like the ones above can perform in a rifle, then I will be delighted to not have to pay $1.50-$3.00 per bullet for my 475 rifle. I guess I will have to see of Lee makes a push through sizer in .475.

[rockrat]

I am sure you can custom order one thru Lee. BT might have dies to do just what you want

[R.Ph. 380]

A couple of years ago another guy on this forum came up with a similar plan using 40S&W cases to make a bullet for the 41mag. The main difference is he annealed the cases first, sized them to .410 then ran them into a 243 die set to make the jacket. Then he poured melted lead in the case, then smashed the top flat in his press with a flat plug in the die hole before the lead set hard. He sent me a bunch and they work pretty good. 269gr .410 for the 41 mag. I'm getting under 2" at 50yds and a case full of lil gun at 1200fps. Then he sent me a bunch of .358s made from 223cases but used a 22jet die for the ogive. These I haven't shot yet.
What seating die would you use for .308 jackets?

[Bored1]

NICE JOB!!!!

I haven't been able to try it yet, however according to information from two other members here the same can be done for 9mm to 40 s&w and 40 s&w to 45acp.

For the 9mm to 40 you would use a 9mm case, expand it with a 38 spl expander, drop in a 9mm cast core, then use a 220 swift sizer with the decapping rod removed to form the point.

Same idea for 40 s&w to 45 acp. Use a 44 mag expander to open up the 40 case, drop in a 40 cast core, and use a 308 sizer with teh decapping rod removed to form the point.

From what I have been told and read, appears this can be done with a lot of different calibers. May not get "professional" looking results using "professional grade" tools, however to my mind a hammer I can afford to use is better than the one left @ Home Depot.


"If you go thru a reloading book you will find that different reloading dies have the correct diameters to make different bullets.
308 ='s .454
222 ='s .357
223 ='s .354 (9mm)
243 ='s .454
6mm & 224rem ='s .429
257 roberts ='s .429
6.5x257 ='s .429
7.7jap ='s .429
22jet ='s .355"

From another member.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200792-Swaging-on-the-Cheap-9mm-Case-to-40SW-10mm-JWords&highlight=Cheap

Alot of good information on sizes in this thread ^^^^

[Camba]

I saw this info before and I gave it a try. It works great to fire them through revolver or rifle. I did both. Seem that I get better accuracy with the revolver at 25 yards than with the rifle. I use the 44 mag caliber from the 40 S&W cases. I have not found a decent load yet. I trim my 40 S&W cases to 0.7 in and drop point first a 40 cal 155 gr boolit and then I use a 7mm-08 Rem x-sizer die without the deprimer rod. The bullet I get comes out between 215gr to 225gr. I do not anneal the cases at all.

What is the 44 expander die? can you point me in the right direction to look for one?
Thanks.
Camba

[Bored1]

The 44 expander die I was talking about is just the die to expand the case mouth for powder etc. Sometimes needed to get the case open enough to accept the core.

[Utah Shooter]

So I tried it today with a 220 swift die to make .40 caliber. I am having issues though. Seems the the top of the case gets expanded just fine. The bottom however is not expanding. Any ideas?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Joe,
have you fully annealed the case ?

[Utah Shooter]

Yup. Glowing red. It seems that the seating is where I am having a bulge in the brass.

[1989toddm]

A couple of years ago another guy on this forum came up with a similar plan using 40S&W cases to make a bullet for the 41mag. The main difference is he annealed the cases first, sized them to .410 then ran them into a 243 die set to make the jacket. Then he poured melted lead in the case, then smashed the top flat in his press with a flat plug in the die hole before the lead set hard. He sent me a bunch and they work pretty good. 269gr .410 for the 41 mag. I'm getting under 2" at 50yds and a case full of lil gun at 1200fps. Then he sent me a bunch of .358s made from 223cases but used a 22jet die for the ogive. These I haven't shot yet.

Did he use the crimp 243 die to make the jacket mouth?

[Outer Rondacker]

This is very interesting. Going to pull out my dies and the blow torch. lol

[screamingjohnny]

Those are some great looking boolits. The folks on this forum have some great ideas.

[fatboy]

this is perfect, I have been looking for something else to get addicted to..[smilie=l:

[Outer Rondacker]

Ok I tired this. I did it wrong I am sure. Anyone make to make a short how to video?

[roverboy]

I think anytime a guy can swage his own bullets on the cheap, is awesome. I'd like to try some .357 sometime. Not completely sure how to go about it though.

[Outer Rondacker]

I think anytime a guy can swage his own bullets on the cheap, is awesome. I'd like to try some .357 sometime. Not completely sure how to go about it though.

That is two of us. I did give it a try. Think I might have reversed a step or seven.

[Utah Shooter]

After further exploration I am thinking I need a dies to seat the lead that puts the diameter around .399-.400 Does anyone know of a die that that may accomplish this?

[rbuck351]

The guy that told me how to make jacketed bullets from cases wasn't actually swaging anything. You pick a case that is bigger in diameter than your finished bullet. Anneal it and run it through a boolit sizer die. Then pick a sizer die such as 243Win or maybe 22Jet that has a shoulder angle that you like, remove the primer punch and push them in until you close the mouth as far as you want. Drive them back out with a narrow punch and they are ready to fill with melted lead. This isn't swaging but it does work and with mostly stuff you already have. It helps to make a plug for your press (7/8x14) that is flat on the bottom and a flat top shell holder. Set your jackets to be filled on the rim of your lead pot to pre heat. Adjust the 7/8x14 plug so your jacket just touches it at the top of the ram stroke. Grab a preheated jacket with pliers, fill it with lead, quickly set it on the shell holder plug and run it to the top. This squishes off any extra lead. Done deal, load and shoot.
For 357 bullets use 223 cases cut off to the length you need. A 22jet die would be good for tapering the "ogive".

[MT Chambers]

Siwy wabbits, everyone knows that you need to spend thousands on a die set and thousands more for a swagging press.

[Wolftracker]

This is interesting. It may save me the cost of a different point former for 45 caliber. I have one in 3/4 E but would like a different nose shape that still cycles well in my 1911. I have a Corbin base guard die with the Keith nose design that doesn't cycle well at all but maybe I can eliminate the shoulder this way as well. Worth a try, thanks for sharing!

[screamingjohnny]

I like the great ideas on this forum!

[sawzall]

After further exploration I am thinking I need a dies to seat the lead that puts the diameter around .399-.400 Does anyone know of a die that that may accomplish this?

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/85261-frankenmauser-s-40-s-w-444-reloads.html You will find all you need to know in this thread. You may have to join the forum to see the pictures though.

[odies dad]

Since I started making these, I also used a centering drill to make a 240gr hollow point.
They really look pretty.

[DukeInFlorida]

Wow, old post revived.

Aside: My initials are OD Some friends call me Odie (others call me Duke)

My dad was from Windham, MN

So, if you are Odies Dad, are you in Windham? That might be downright scary.

[frkelly74]

I played with this idea a while ago. for a 41 mag bullet I used 40 S&W brass annealed, and seated a 358-150 boolit nose frist. I used a ram from a 357 lee size die to seat the core by pushing the annealed case with the boolit in it , into a 30 Rem sizer die base up , I think 30-30 would work too. Then drive it back out with a bolt through the top of the die. Reverse the case and reinsert it into the die to form the point and drive it back out with the bolt again. The bullet is now bumped up over the .410 desired final diameter. Trim the excess brass off the point and put it through a .410 sizer. Takes some force and some lube but it can be done. I need to go shoot some of them and see if they perform.

[rbuck351]

I have done similar with the 41mag. Fully anneal the cases, run them through a .410 sizer die then into a 308/243 or similar FL sizer until you have closed the neck down as far as you want. Now you have a jacket, just pour it full of lead and push something flat down on the nose. No swaging. Mine come out at 270grs pushed to 1200 with a stiff load of 296 from a 6 1/2" Blackhawk. With me shooting they are grouping about 3" at 50yds. Some of that is probably my shooting.
It doesn't take a lot of force on your press if you form the empty case and then pour in the melted lead.

[Forrest r]

You really don't need to seat the core. Part of the seating the core process bumps the brass up to close to the diameter of the finished bullet.

357's:
I like to use 380acp cases uncut. Just anneal them and size them down to .356/.357/.358 (whatever push thru die size you have). Then I put a 30cal or 32 cal cast bullet in the sized case and run that up in a 222 fl die to form the bullet. Then that formed bullet goes back to the .356/.357/.358 die and gets re-sized. You're done. I make these to use in the 9mm/38spl's/357's.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/40be1746-b6b6-4244-83b3-2ea62676af64_zps6ddguqle.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/40be1746-b6b6-4244-83b3-2ea62676af64_zps6ddguqle.jpg.html)

44's:
annealed 40s&w brass and run them up in a 41mag expander. Then put a cast 35cal/40cal/41cal bullet in the case for a core and run them up in a 6mm/224 rem fl die and swage the bullet. Then run the swaged bullet up in a .429/.430 push thru sizing die. Some hp's for the 44mag.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/23a5bfe6-c35b-41c3-884c-01900b634b70_zpsbrfeilug.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/23a5bfe6-c35b-41c3-884c-01900b634b70_zpsbrfeilug.jpg.html)

45acp's:
Anneal 40s&w cases and use a 44mag/spl expander to open them up. I use a 148gr/150gr 35cal cast bullet for a core to keep the weight in the 225gr/230gr area. Then run then up in a 243win fl die to swage the bullet. Then run the swaged bullet up in a .451/.452 push thru sizing die. Some hp's I make for the 45acp.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/adedbc04-f545-4d1e-9bbf-2f11fe1bd9e1_zpszfsl5ecv.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/adedbc04-f545-4d1e-9bbf-2f11fe1bd9e1_zpszfsl5ecv.jpg.html)

Seeings how I have either used reloading equipment that I already have/own. Or bought used pieces and parts ($20 @ gunshows) for the different rifle fl dies and a 41mag expander. I spent some extra $$$ on a hornady blank making die set (it makes the xtp notches in the hp's) and $$$ on a canalure tool. Figured when I'm done with both of them I will sell them for more $$$ then what I paid for them, hence money in the bank.

There's a train of thought that the bullet has to retain it's weight to be affective. The cores have to be bonded/seated/expanded tightly for the bullet to be accurate. ETC.

Playing around @25yds with a 6" bbl'd 44mag shot into a bundle of wet newpapers, target and chrono readings. Not excellent by any means but it's only 1 plinking load i made up to test penetration of that bullet at modest speeds, they went thru 9" of wet paper and held together because of the tight bullet/core (40s&w case expanded with a 41cal expander & 41cal bullet used for core).

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/44magchrony_zpscd769e68.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/44magchrony_zpscd769e68.jpg.html)

The loose 225gr hp'd 45acp cores (40s&w case expanded with 44cal expander and a 35cal cast bullet for a core) exploded in the wet paper @ 50ft.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/45acpchrony_zps82e18452.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/45acpchrony_zps82e18452.jpg.html)

That was a p+ load shot 2-handed standing @ 50ft. Note the 2 bullets touching/double tap. The bullets went thru 7" to 8" of wet newspaper and the double tap wet out the back of the bundle (hole in blue picture/9"+ bundle).

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/doubletap_zpsefe037fc.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/doubletap_zpsefe037fc.jpg.html)

Those 225gr hp's for the 45acp frag, but man they made a mess of anything they hit with good penetration.

Some 35cal bullets for the 357's. The 175gr fn's are made from 9mm cases & 115gr 30cal cast bullet bullet for the core. The 147/150gr hp's are made from 38acp cases and a 93gr 32cal cast bullet for the core. They were formed in a 222 fl die.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/dfae2a17-b053-423f-bb91-4f74ce405208_zpsbgtlhn9l.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/dfae2a17-b053-423f-bb91-4f74ce405208_zpsbgtlhn9l.jpg.html)

The 150gr hp's do 6 1/2" to 7 1/2" of penetration with a 1200fps load @ 50ft into bundles of wet paper as they frag, if they don't frag they go out the back of the 9" bundle of wet newspaper. The 170gr fn's go out the back of 9" bundles of paper with a 1200fps load @ 50ft no matter what.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/allbullets_zps6dcc8b6a.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/allbullets_zps6dcc8b6a.jpg.html)

Free range lead for the cores, free range brass for the jackets ='s cheap bullets.

[Bored1]

Thanks for adding the pictures and detailed explanation!