Powder..whatcha using real or sub?

[Ragnarok]

I've been out of genuine BP for a year or so...making do with Pyrodex and 777..these being easy enough to obtain in my area.

Anyhow...I'm just going to order myself some new genuine BP...but was curious if any of the other BP subs have any merit..and just what real BP do you use(Goex, Wano, Graf's(Wano), Swiss, etc.

Discuss powder with me...I have not bought real black powder since the 1980's..and getting into cartridge loading has used up my supply!

[johnson1942]

what do you shoot, kind of gun? and what kind of ignition?

[Ragnarok]

Uhhmmm...I own three Martini Henry rifles(.577/.450)..a Snider(.577Snider)..a Trapdoor Springfield .45-70...plus some modern guns in .45 Colt and .45-70 chamberings. A TC Hawkin .50...a TC Renegade .54..several percussion revolvers in .36 and .44...and one lonely flintlock pistol I don't shoot...no modern inlines or anything like that

I plan on ordering a variety of powder grades..even considering some 'Goex Reinactor' which is advertised as a lower power powder and I thought it may have some merit in the Martini Henry round...

[mooman76]

I shoot both. I got some real BP and will shoot it as long as I can get it but won't waste the sub that I have so I will use it too. I mostly shoot Pyrodex but have shot APP also and have some 777 but haven't tried it yet. As far as the real stuff I will shoot whatever I can find. I have GOEX and some Swiss, no preference.

[johnson1942]

this is all subjective to our own preferences and experiences but with your blackpowder cartridge rifles if they can handle 15 percent more pressure that real black, i would go with black horn 209 powder. it is very clean and not a smokeless powder. cases can be filled as you would blackpowder. as for the muzzleloaders i would go with 2f black in the bigger cals. and 3f in the smaller. nothing better than real black for accracy. i do have 2 side locks that ignite the 209 powder but the rest use real black. the 209 powder in blackpowder cartridge rifles shoot very very accurate and you dont have to clean between shots. you have a nice collection. in my two side locks the 209 powder is very accurate and i use shot gun primer ignition. my custom other muzzleloaders i used the thompson breech plugs and their breech plugs arent as fast as they should be. i have 209 primer ignition on them but to be on the safe side for consistant ignition i use black powder in them. have fun

[Lonegun1894]

I make my own real BP as per the sticky here, in all my MLs. PArt of it is that it is quite a bit cheaper for me to make it than buy the subs, and part is that I use several flintlocks, and they don't ignite subs most of the time, and it makes no sense for me to try and stock several types of powder for my MLs. And I make 3F for all of mine, ranging from a .32 rifle to a .710 smoothbore.

[GARD72977]

I really like the KIK 3F for my 62cal trade gun and 53cal Uberti hawkens. I have used Swiss in smaller calibers and really like it. It has a lot more "thump" than other powders Its just expenisve. Don't rule out 3F for the larger calibers

[missionary5155]

Greetings
For most of my shooting I use 3F. My smallest caliber is .36 and largest is .84. These are all flinters except some military muskets. Even the origonal muskets show a pronounced liking to 3F. Much less fouling and less powder to reach military velocities. Last time up I tried 2f in a 1823 vintage Hall flint caliber .54 Rifle. Had to use 3F to prime so tried it also in the swing up chamber. 15 grains less to reach better accuracy and less "spitting" out the chamber barrel gap.
I had some 2F that I was using in a 50-95 but found 3F to shoot so much better giving the old published ballistics that I still have about 1/4 pound to finish off in my 1.1 inch cannon.
One day when we resettle perminant up north there I will delve into making my own 3F. By then I should be near out of caplocks except for the revolvers which all get fed 3F.
I have nothing against the "Subs"... Have several pounds of Pyrodex in a box.. Just do not use it since switching to 3F over the years.
Mike in Peru

[Squeeze]

Lately either Goex or Graf but in both 3f&2f. but I think once the 2f is used up this time I may just restock with 3f. even use real black in my inlines, except for 1-2 that still get fed Blackhorn 209. Last year I shot just under 4 lb in .32 cal alone. I cant even guess at the totals in larger cal

[rodwha]

I have some Pyrodex P left over from my father. I didn't care much for it at all and so I was using it to break in my .50 cal rifle.

My Ruger is meant for hunting, and for that I wanted to replicate .45 Colt power, and so I bought 3F Triple 7. Swiss isn't available around me, and it's too expensive online. Then Goex made Olde Eynsford, and it's only $1 more per pound from Grafs so I've been shooting a good bit of that lately.

From what little side by side test results I've seen Swiss, Olde E, and T7 al give very similar velocities by volume.

Maybe you might want to look for some Olde E GARD72977.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I use real black , Diamondback , it is the old Elephant powders new name

I get it from here http://addictedtoblackpowder.com/2.html

I have gone to all 3fg , nothing I shoot needs 2fg and 3 just burns better less fouling

most of my paper punching is 30gr fffg with a patched round ball form 45s and 50s

[rodwha]

After I've worked up my hunting load in my .50 cal with PRB's I want to see how light I can go and have great small game accuracy at 25 yds until I buy a proper smaller caliber.

[Ragnarok]

The only "substitute" I will shoot is BH209, and that only in my 209 ignition Omega. Otherwise, my preference has always been Goex, but found KIK to work well. The last lots of Elephant, and what is now Diamondback work OK. fffg has become my standard in frontstuffers including my .58 and .62 flintlocks. ffg is better in cartridges unless sub 50 grain charges, and then fffg gets the nod again.

I suspect that "reneactor" powder is meant to only make noise, and not meant for ballistic uniformity. I would put ffg in that MH.

I've head that the wano is pretty good, but have never encountered it. Swiss burns too hot and dry for my applications other than fffg in the revolver, or ffffg in the pan.

The Martini Henry rifles ate all my real BP(about 90 grains a pop)..this being part of my problem..I just hate the subs I have for cartridge use...

[tacklebury]

I like pure black. FFFg for most of my applications. ;)

[histed]

My shooting is all with flinchlocks. Most (maybe all) the subs require a starter of real bp to ignite the sub. Also need 4f for the pan (don't know of a sub that can be used for flash). If I have to do that, why bother? I shoot the real thing - FFg in the .54 now, but I have used FFFg in that and 12ga bp shells.

[roverboy]

I use Goex 2f black and Hodgdon 777. I shoot Goex in my H&R .58 and Triple 7 in my CVA Staghorn.

[pietro]

.

I quit on substitute black powders, and switched back to Holy Black (usually FFFg) in all my flint & cap lock rifles, from .36cal to .54 cal - with better results.

I have nearly zero experience with BP cartridge shooting - except for loading black powder RB gallery loads for my .45 Colt & .45-70's

I buy whatever Holy Black I can lay my paws on, usually Goex or Swiss, locally.

I don't order online, due to the large amounts req'd to lower haz-mat shipping fee/surcharges.


.

[koehlerrk]

My TC Hawken 50 gets nothing but Ye Holy Black, currently Goex fff, but I wouldn't be opposed to trying some Swiss in her just to see how it does.

My TC Black Diamond that I let my son use, well, he gets White Hot pellets since I know he can count to one without screwing up, and it's easier for him to not deal with the smoke cloud. For now anyways.

[Alan]

Goex 3F in my .32 and .36 rifles, Goex 2F in .45 and larger rifles, and Goex 1F in 12 and 8 bore shotguns. Occasionally use 1F in my .72 Pedersoli Gibbs. Takes a bit more of it to match my 140gr. 2F load. 1F patterns NOTICABLY better than 2F in the smoothbores. I don't have a .31 C&B any more, but shot 3F in it. All my .36 and .45 revolvers but one shoot much better with 2F than 3F.

[Hanshi]

Goex or Jacks Battle Powder 3F almost to the exclusion of all else.

[ogre]

I acquired more than a few pounds of GOEX (red and white cans) some years ago from local guys who, for whatever reasons, had given up the sport. It ranges from 4f to 1f. As I shoot through each pound I replace it with Swiss or Old Enysford.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

After I've worked up my hunting load in my .50 cal with PRB's I want to see how light I can go and have great small game accuracy at 25 yds until I buy a proper smaller caliber. 20-30 gr is about perfect for accuracy at 25 yards 3f worked better with these light charges

and better yet you can get it to shoot dead on at 25 with the right charge of powder and not have to touch your sights from your hunting load typically

how low can you go , very low a little real black tricked under the nipple will get a ball 40 yards down range before hitting the dirt and bouncing 2 times to 100 when held level and fired to get a ball loaded on no powder out

[GARD72977]

I shoot and practice for woods walk competition. The reason I bring this up is because I use a sloppy wet patch. This works great with real black powder but not so well with subs. The reason for such a wet patch is to be able to load and keep reasonable accuracy without cleaning for as many shots as you need.

[JudgeBAC]

Goex 2f in a TC Hawken; 777 in a sidelock TC lock, Douglas barrel, .451 slip fit boolit built by Dr. Gary White; Blackhorn 209 in Knight Bighorn .50.

Just started shooting Bighorn 209 not enough shots to have much of an opinion except you sure do get a lot of carbon fouling. Cant find the recomended magnum 209 primers so Im using regular Winchester 209s. I do not know if a magnum primer might ignite and burn more of the powder and cut down on the fouling. Time will tell.

[rmark]

Goex and Pyrodex in a .58, .54, .50, .50, .50, .50, .40, .40 and eventually the .451 and .36. I have some mid-1990's Elephant I haven't tried yet.

[Eddie2002]

Loaded up on some Graff FFF last year while it was on sale. Until then I was buying Goex at the local gun shop for $25.00/lb. Still have about 1/2lb of FF left which I'm using up but plan to stay with FFF for my rocklocks and model cannons.

[Freightman]

I shoot Homemade Black Powder, for about $2 a # use it in my Muzzle loaders and BPCR 45/70's. get the same FPS as with Goex. read the stickies lots of good information there.

[badboyparamedic]

Homemade Black

[Freightman]

Here enjoy! http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder

[OverMax]

Got into black about the time Atom 73 posted his thread. With Fly and Boz 303 keeping things interesting I decided to give it a try. Not the wet method but with ball rolling. First batch I have to admit was a joke. But as Atom73 thread progressed so did my knowledge as did my powder improve. Never got into pistol so there was no need to puck it. Just the usual screening to proper kernel size is all I do. Haven't regretted once getting involved in its making. These days I have about 8-10 lbs of Gorex 2-FF & 3FFF aging on the shelf. My rifles are sighted in for the homemade. I doubt my Gorex on hand will be used up anytime soon.

[Hickok]

Holy black, in percussion revolvers and CW era muskets and Sharps Berdan.

[irishtoo]

3f goex in .32 to .62cal prime and main. and now .45-70. tried subs when i started but saw the light using real bp.

[Petrol & Powder]

3F Goex is what I have on hand. Should have purchased the Swiss Kik when I had the chance a few years ago. I ran across 10 pounds of it at a good price but didn't want to buy that much at the time and the seller wouldn't break the lot down.